Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Wallflower]

catboi is as town as town gets;

you have said a lot of things, but you still haven't expanded on this

I also have not gotten to the point in the game where catboi demonstrates this, now, have I?

I said it happened circa the 90s, I'm in the 80s still.

There's a reason my goal is to get to ~100.

It would seem to me that you have either read the game already, or have decided on your reads before reading the game, no?

but it's okay, this doesn't necessarily need a response. Feel free to finish your catch-up when you're ready.

[mastina]

This reminds me a lot of FL’s towngame tbf.

(For the record. When I say that Norwee is town because Norwee as scum would be better, what I mean by this is that Norwee as scum would be obvious to me and that Norwee as scum in multiball I'd expect to be more in line with my own. Norwee not being obvscum and Norwee having thoughts not in line with my own = Norwee as good as conftown.)

[mastina]

It would seem to me that you have either read the game already, or have decided on your reads before reading the game, no?

????

My reads have come from reading the game, but that does not mean I have read all of the game.

I have been very clear about what I have, and have not, read.

Everything I am mentioning in my catch-up posting, I have read.
Everything I am responding to in real time, like this post right now, I have read, obviously.

Beyond the above, there are some things that I, offline, skimmed--posts somewhere in the 90s range, and more recently, posts in the ~120-130ish range. But these were both offline, and skims, and not proper reads. I need to read them properly and then give content on them properly.

I don't see how this is hard to understand?

I skimread catboi posts in the ~90s range that made my existing townread on catboi elevate from strong town to conftown levels.
But I am not at the 90s range in my proper catchup/readthrough so I'm not quoting it because I've not read-read it.

[The Keeper]

Car broke down today.
In depth read list now on hold
I don't feel like reading the last 13 pages and I was wondering if I should bother.

SCP, Nashville, FL, are my scumreads at this point and I plan to vote within them. StD, Norwe, Mastina, Well Done, and SoD are town.

malefactor spotted

Really? I'm thinking its more a Gnawed Leaf looking slot.

[Wallflower]

It would seem to me that you have either read the game already, or have decided on your reads before reading the game, no?

????

My reads have come from reading the game, but that does not mean I have read all of the game.

I have been very clear about what I have, and have not, read.

Everything I am mentioning in my catch-up posting, I have read.
Everything I am responding to in real time, like this post right now, I have read, obviously.

Beyond the above, there are some things that I, offline, skimmed--posts somewhere in the 90s range, and more recently, posts in the ~120-130ish range. But these were both offline, and skims, and not proper reads. I need to read them properly and then give content on them properly.

I don't see how this is hard to understand?

I skimread catboi posts in the ~90s range that made my existing townread on catboi elevate from strong town to conftown levels.
But I am not at the 90s range in my proper catchup/readthrough so I'm not quoting it because I've not read-read it.

I realised that it could be a difference of approach and that's alright. I personally would only feel able to form a read if I had enough familiarity with the game in order to explain it. Otherwise, I couldn't be as sure of the read. But how you and I each do things could totally be different.

[The Keeper]

Does Town have to eliminate the Malefactor? If all scum are eliminated except the Malefactor, do they just lose?

The Malefactor is a miselimination.

They still win if town loses, even if game overed.

[The Keeper]

SoD is actually an alt of DrippingGoofball, you heard it here first.

nope, but I like to duel

That can be arranged...

[The Keeper]

I realize this is an unpopular stance and I'm not gonna sell people on it today. But I want people to remember it for whenever I finally get out of this cursed game: FL/Wallflower are absolutely not both town from the way they have been interacting

You're firmly in my red heart area... but it looks like we both picked up on this.

[Wallflower]

Apologies, I won't have the energy to post what I planned to on catboi tonight, but the post where I most recently voted Catboi in Post 2795 is I would say a fairly rudimentary version of what I am currently thinking, with Catboi's response in Post 2803 being particularly unlikely from them as town.
I also quite strongly believe that Catboi-town does NOT truly believe in the post they make in 2749.

Also worth noting in this particular situation, is that it came after I had pulled back on the Catboi suspicion to instead focus on Nashville, but instead of using that as an opportunity for space to clarify their read on me, they pick a fight with me over my suggestion that catboi and Klick would be scum together, when again, I am quite sure that Catboi would NOT truly believe this to be an impossible scum pairing.

Catboi has mentioned multiple times that they use people suspecting them as an opportunity to work out whether the read is genuine or not and thus inform their read of the person in question, but I don't think there is much real evidence of that. Their approach is more aligned with grandstanding, in publicly broadcasting the stupidity of whom they choose. Again, the Klick/Catboi scumpairing theory example. The focus was absolutely NOT on trying to read me there. My recent interaction with Catboi involved them making claims about me that they clearly were not able to back up when I challenged them to.

As much as FL does not need to take up anymore gamespace, I think FL and Catboi are interesting to compare. FL's play here has appeared to be one of becoming convinced of reads, sometimes with convoluted reasoning that no one understands, desperately wanting everyone else to also see his viewpoint and shouting at them until they agree with him, at the expense of turning multiple people against him. Obviously I don't

like

this approach either, but it much more resembles a town agenda ("I'm right and need everyone to agree with me" "Oh gosh why aren't they agreeing with me???") than a scum one.

Okay that was more words than I intended and not as clearly articulated as I would have hoped, but I am literally falling asleep as I'm typing and waking up to after microsleeps to see ;kfgflkl;kdfe;'fe that I've suddenly started typing gibberish, so it is definitely time for me to go.

Good night! sleep tight!

[mastina]

Neither player is too interested in the game. Inactive, lazy takes and easy shades. Etc.

This argument is shit and you should feel shit for making it.

Especially since both Titus and Malakittens are far less active these days.

Mala tends to post every 2-4 days.

Titus, every 2-3.

I can't speak for if that is actually alignment indicative though because the above? Were as town. So either their "inactivity" is nai or their "inactivity" is town-indicative. And I put quotes around "inactivity" because they're not

really

inactive.

They have nearly 200 posts, discarding Titus's off-hydra posts.

That ain't inactive. That's more active than me, and I am not inactive either.

Yeah. I don't think you're scum, but coming in with an outrageously anti-consensus take on a player I feel is pretty townie is more likely to come from town mastina, where as scum her reads are going to hew closer to consensus and generally seem to make more sense. The opinions she's coming in with feel confidently her own, don't agree with the read on you, but I believe she believes it.

This is the start of where my strong catboi townread comes from.

The defense of me lacks a scum agenda, and more than that, the opinion formed is one of incredible nuance. Yes, catboi could be scum making a sincere non-TMI townread on me, but that's why this is only the start.

damage control for what

Probably a Catboi partner

There’s definitely scum in the people that are defending/town reading Catboi. At least 1, even if Catboi ends up being town

I'm fairly certain there's much more than 3 people defending me, so it's not like they can all be my partners. I wouldn't doubt that there's some scum defending me, just by sheer amount of numbers and the fact that not every scum is going to want to push an elim, especially if they think I'm town, but this is a very vague accusation. It's a broad brush stroke that avoids getting into specifics about who might be scum to instead blanket discredit the people defending me.

This is where it really began to take off though because the nuance of this point is VERY much a nuanced thought that I would think to be town-indicative for catboi. I admit; I've never actually seen catboi's scumgame so I don't know what catboi's scumgame is in spite of catboi being a double-DC.

But the nuance to this thought looks like something that I don't think scum can fake. Yes, multiball, but not like this, not even in multiball. This sort of developed thought is the kind that to me I just don't see how scum makes it at all.

Another contributing factor is catboi beginning to vibe with my reads, between the bnuuy push and the FL -reaction to, going to FL's posting. Yet in spite of his reads having some similarity to mine, and in spite of his defense of me, he is very clearly not sucking up to me. He's townreading players I am scumreading and very clear that he thinks my read on those players is wrong, but he is also developing his own reads which have some overlap with mine, in ways I consider town-indicative.

His conversation with Norwee bled town with the way he was engaging Norwee.

There is also the fact that catboi is showing an unusually nuanced, refined view of my play. He's hitting a lot of the right points on what my play is, in a way that I don't think is scum. Like, scum defending me I would expect to make defenses that I know to be wrong. But town defending me typically are more "in the zone" of knowing what is actually town/scum/etc. of me.

catboi and Well Done have vibed with me in similar ways and catboi's vibe with Well Done also resonates as being town. catboi is being incredibly active, invested, thoughtful, and nuanced, while also having appropriate levels of being reserved, explaining why he feels the way he does on every slot. 2221 is dead on the money for mirroring my own thoughts on FL.

Boys you gotta get some better scumreads because I'm town, Menalque is very likely town, and I think Malcolm is too

I loved this reachout and while I disagree with Malcolm being town, that's more proof of this being town. catboi's reachout to vibe with Well Done was incredibly town here where he was stating what is, by and large: frankly, the truth.

Okay Well Done is super obviously town here, for a very simple reason: Dunn doesn't have the balls to push Flavor Leaf day 1 as scum. He plays scum like a background character, mays easy votes, tries to avoid drawing attention to himself. Here he's doing the exact opposite of that and drawing negative attention from the most active player in the game. It's a million miles outside his scum range.

This was the real clincher though. This was something that I just don't see catboi saying as scum here, especially given multiball.

I am pretty sure this is stealing someone else's argument, but a lot of catboi's thoughts are framed from a non-multiball perspective where catboi is giving reads and not taking into account it being multiball--this is a huge towntell because it indicates a town player not tainted by a scum alignment. Yes, catboi knows it's a multiball game, but catboi's takes often have the mentality of a singleball game in spite of the knowledge of multiball, which is a subconscious think that indicates town to me.

The Toogeloo callout in 2232 was good, too. 2239 was great. I agree with 2242.

I think that Flavor Leaf's reaction to getting scumread by Well Done fucking sucks. The progression from scum reading them -> calling them wrong town -> getting tilted at them and calling them liock scum is super sketchy. It doesn't look like a genuine evaluation but scum shifting through different angles trying to get the heat off them. It's a very Prism-esque progression, it just feels very fake. The attacks read more like playing offense to play defense because he's really bothered by the scumread on him. I would think that if he had truly gotten frustrated with Well Done and thought they were town just dumbly tunneled on him, he'd just back off and stop engaging with them, but instead he keeps going and 180s. The only reason I can see for this happening is because he's

really

bothered by their scumread on him and wants to discredit it. There's not even really a possibility he gets yeeted Day 1, he just wants to stamp out all opposition to him.

This basically is a summary of why FL is scum this game in a way that I don't think scum can do. It's the same insight Pooky gave, it's the insight I would give, and catboi giving it is proof of him being town.

2251 is correct. 2255 is a good observation.

His readslist in 2261 is largely mirrored to mine. He has precisely 3 townreads that I do not and 3 scumreads I do not, but swapping those would result in a near-identical readslist. The similarity and yet convergence is hella town.

Well Done/Mastina scum team.

For the record, not really interested in quoting Well Done's walls because they be walls and I don't feel like editing them down to be more readable when quoting, but Well Done is a stronger townread and their case on FL is valid. Just sayin'.

Because this game is very much dominated by clowns.

That's not true, i am not even active.

Also obligatory reminder that Enchant is scum, too.


Bottom of 92, and I've no choice but to go to bed. Both because nearly 5 am and also because it is literally painful to keep my eyes open. Every second my eyes aren't closed they're hurting so I NEED sleep right now, sorry. I got out

most

of what I read from catboi to make him so town but not all of it.

[Enchant]

Because Mastina can't answer my question, i do.

Mastina scumreads anyone who put even slight doubt on her claim.

[Well Done]

They have nearly 200 posts, discarding Titus's off-hydra posts.

Today I learned 105 + 16 = nearly 200

[SCP 682]

Because Mastina can't answer my question, i do.

Mastina scumreads anyone who put even slight doubt on her claim.

Sounds familiar

[tictac]

Trying to link youtube from Paddington is a nightmarish way
Somebodies link everybody's free to wear sunscreen 4 me
There's people who need to chill.

[catboi]

I realize this is an unpopular stance and I'm not gonna sell people on it today. But I want people to remember it for whenever I finally get out of this cursed game: FL/Wallflower are absolutely not both town from the way they have been interacting

I don't think it's as unpopular as you say. People seem plenty paranoid of FL, and I haven't fact-checked this but I reckon at least half of the players in the game would have either me or FL in their potential-scum list.

I guess my interpretation of your posts is that you're trying to spread paranoia regarding two people actually trying to work together.

PEdit: Can you back up this claim too? I at one point tried to get Nashville eliminated instead of you. Beyond having you as my preferred elim and playing as such, what am I doing that is "blatantly trying to deflect attention from Nashville Dreams"?

"tried" is a significant overestimation of how much effort you actually put into it:

I still feel like catboi is scum but I think the healthiest thing to do is to give it space for now, to be revisited later with a fresher mindset.

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

Townreads: butterchurn, Sword of Ducks, cassowary, Tracer Bullet, Well Done, Enchant, Mastina, Flavor Leaf, Menalque, NorwegianBoyEE
LessTownreads: Cat Scratch Fever, MalcolmTucker, bnuuy, MonkeyMan576

The rest: Nashville Dreams, Save The Dragons, Toogeloo, The Keeper, MegAzumarill, catboi, tictac, Klick

I think I would happily elim either Nashville or catboi at this point, with probably a preference for Nashville? I can definitely see a case for mastina being scum, but am less sure on that.

I'm still wary of catboi, and I am becoming slightly more wary of FL than I was before, but they both feel like distractions at this point. Catboi has been a pet scumread for me for a while and I can't be confident in them being town but it does not feel like a good elim for today. I think that more time, flips and associations will better inform the Catboi read, and honestly FL too.
Meanwhile, nashville dreams' play is incredibly vapid, I do not get the sense of any real conviction behind their posts. I'm pretty sold on this being the best elimination for today.

I get that a lot of other people may be scum but the fact is there are lots of scum in this game and Nashville is probably one of them so why not just do it?

Like I have a delicious catboi/Klick scumteam theory but I’d rather get the less complex scum elims and reevaluate from there

why does Catboi get that pass Nashville doesnt?

The awkward lurking postings by Nashville?

I feel more conflicted on catboi than on Nashville. To me, Nashville’s posting fits entirely in the realm of what I expect from overwhelmed scum pretending to be scumhunting. I can see a strong argument for catboi being scum and am not averse to voting there, but there is more clouding that read for me, with stuff from catboi that I worry could potentially indicate town.

This is pretty weak shit, does anyone reading this go "wow look wallflower really wants to see ND flipped?" It's totally tepid and uninspiring, there's barely any effort to make a persuasive argument in any of this

[catboi]

I kind of think he's been acting a bit like this to me too, so I'm surprised you think we're scum together.

Yeah I don't understand what you mean by this at all? I searched your ISO and I remembered making jokes about you asking mastina to explain stuff, ad you asking me questions when I was interrogating norwee, I don't get how you see this as me trying to manipulate you or whatever

yeah you were pushing Wallflower for the Klick/you scumteam theory, and your response to me was more mild in comparison, which wasn't what I was expecting

Idk how to explain it but when someone's reaction isn't what I expected, it pings me

yeah because you haven't treated me like shit all game

[catboi]

Alright so I started at 1:30 so that means I miiiiight need to give up on getting caught up.

I want to read at least until 100 tho and then read from where I was last night, if nothing else.

VOTE: bnuuy

VOTE: bnuuy

VOTE: bnuuy

VOTE: Bnuuy

VOTE: Bnuuy

VOTE: Bnuuy

So uh.

What happened to this wagon and why the fuck did it go away.

Because I very much think it should not have gone away.

In fact.

VOTE: bnuuy

when I joined this game I didn't want any drama to happen, now it has and I'm feeling down
if y'all want to vote me out then be my guest tbh but that's at least why I haven't been engaged recently
I'll add that cassowary doesn't really feel like she did when I saw her as scum before so that's probably a good sign

This was literally a beetlegeus pop-in. Wagon happened and then bnuuy posted

in direct response to the wagon

.

If you're away from the game and then you have a wagon form on you as you're coming back, that's not beetlegeusing...
...But if you are posting only because there is a wagon on you and the entirety of your content is in direct response to that content? It absolutely IS.

good post lol

[Menalque]

I consider it a personal failure that we're at page 143 and this day still somehow hasn't ended

I maintain that going over 100 pages on D1 is always a bad idea

[Menalque]

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

[snip]

VOTE: nashville dreams

[catboi]

Spoiler:

Cat Scratch Fever, Megaza, Enchant hammer

means 11 votes are ready for Nashville.

I'm sure players like Menalque/SPC will join it.

WallFlower said they're not town reading Nashville and was there earlier.

Toogeloo and tictac as well.

This is not a wagon on scum, and if it is, they're Malefactor.


@Nashville - time to claim probably. E-4 in a large game.

You’re right that I would vote Nashville if I needed to

yep.

And that's why it's a wagon on town.

cat scratch was already on it, so i said 11 when it should have been 10.

but let's do the math.

23 minus Nashville, that's 22 players.

with those players listed, that's 15. If Menalque/SPC arent willing to vote there, then yeah, its still lower, but only if they stand by that, which I don't know where they stand, but i can see both of them voting there just to end.

I would likely end up voting despite my incessant town reads, and then somehow get blamed for it anyways because I generally just vote to end the day and get it over with even if it's a town read if i think there's merit to move on.

16 players that means are willing to vote Nashville.

Hmmm....I wonder why that is.

It's because both scum sides are willing to vote there.

Mastina seemed to town read there, I believe? I could be wrong.

So there is absolutely no chance that Nashville flips Group Scum here.

You could say that "SCUM ARE BUSSING"

with how hard I've been pushing Catboi and people's possible willingness to vote Catboi if it sped up?

Nope. Catboi would have more pressure outside of the mains.

Malcolm idk where they're at regarding the wagon.


So yeah, that's 16 out of 22 minimum votes on Nashville here.

this does not happen here if Nashville was scum full stop.

I hate this post. Like the logic behind it.

There was so much handwaving to get to that 16 out of 22 players willing to vote for Nashville = Nashville must be town.

1) Out of the 22 other players, only 3 would know that ND is scum if ND is scum. So already, that number fits in the gap.

2) It grouped in the people who are saying "ND is kinda scummy, but I am gonna vote someone else who I think is better" along side the people who are actively advocating for the ND elimination. Which, to be clear, is a very different stance - which totally leaves room for partners who don't think they can get by hard defending the slot, and would rather hope for something else to go through.

3) He counted Enchant, who said that he would hammer any wagon that got to E-1

4) He looped in himself, despite in the same post saying he has "incessant town reads" on the slot.

-----

So, all in all, this post is saying that if you add together [the people currently voting the wagon] + [the people voting different wagons, but not explicitly town reading the slot] + [People who have no stated read on the slot, but are hammer happy] + [People who explicitly town read the slot, but would vote there solely to keep the day from ending with no elimination] = then you get SIXTEEN PEOPLE !! So sus!!

------

This post means nothing other then Flavor Leaf does not want the elimination to go through, and is trying to scare people away from it. So, everyone feel free to note that Flavor Leaf has a stated town read on the slot before deciding whether you want the wagon to go through, because I think that that is all I gained from reading this.

2 is an ESPECIALLY important point but in general the whole thing is SO FUCKING DISINGENUOUS from FL and is trying top exaggerate the support for eliminating ND

you could practically use the argument that

any

wagon that could go through must be on town because it needs at a minimum 12 people to support it. it's bullshit

[catboi]

I'd love to eliminate him because he's scum and he's literally posting in a method I would call the opposite of strategic lurking, so to speak, "strategic flooding": drowning out the entire town to make it so that his voice is disproportionately seen and listened to, to sway the town, drown out the good points, and leave only the weak points as remaining and visible and carried over long-term.

But while he's literally posting to make the town basically have no chance at winning, I don't think I can actually get the elimination there by pushing it. I want to, but I don't have the energy for it.

yes thank youthe entire tactic is aimed at demotivating people from wanting to actually play the game

and it is working

[Menalque]

I think FL is probably malefactor tbh but may just be scum

it's not inconceivable that he's town here but it went at a certain point from babbling normal FL to babbling in such a way that it's actively disruptive and confusing FL which is, I think, more a feature of his scumgame (also I didn't like that he was supposedly pretty sold on me being town until the point where I suggested I would be down to vote him at which point I became a top 3 lim for him -- I also don't like that his lim priorities would roughly line up with "people I think he would like to see limmed if they were town and he were scum")

[Menalque]

and it is working

yes

I have the same problem of not having the energy to try and deal with it

[catboi]

Apologies, I won't have the energy to post what I planned to on catboi tonight, but the post where I most recently voted Catboi in Post 2795 is I would say a fairly rudimentary version of what I am currently thinking, with Catboi's response in Post 2803 being particularly unlikely from them as town.
I also quite strongly believe that Catboi-town does NOT truly believe in the post they make in 2749.

Also worth noting in this particular situation, is that it came after I had pulled back on the Catboi suspicion to instead focus on Nashville, but instead of using that as an opportunity for space to clarify their read on me, they pick a fight with me over my suggestion that catboi and Klick would be scum together, when again, I am quite sure that Catboi would NOT truly believe this to be an impossible scum pairing.

Catboi has mentioned multiple times that they use people suspecting them as an opportunity to work out whether the read is genuine or not and thus inform their read of the person in question, but I don't think there is much real evidence of that. Their approach is more aligned with grandstanding, in publicly broadcasting the stupidity of whom they choose. Again, the Klick/Catboi scumpairing theory example. The focus was absolutely NOT on trying to read me there. My recent interaction with Catboi involved them making claims about me that they clearly were not able to back up when I challenged them to.

As much as FL does not need to take up anymore gamespace, I think FL and Catboi are interesting to compare. FL's play here has appeared to be one of becoming convinced of reads, sometimes with convoluted reasoning that no one understands, desperately wanting everyone else to also see his viewpoint and shouting at them until they agree with him, at the expense of turning multiple people against him. Obviously I don't

like

this approach either, but it much more resembles a town agenda ("I'm right and need everyone to agree with me" "Oh gosh why aren't they agreeing with me???") than a scum one.

Okay that was more words than I intended and not as clearly articulated as I would have hoped, but I am literally falling asleep as I'm typing and waking up to after microsleeps to see ;kfgflkl;kdfe;'fe that I've suddenly started typing gibberish, so it is definitely time for me to go.

Good night! sleep tight!

Apologies, I won't have the energy to post what I planned to on catboi tonight, but the post where I most recently voted Catboi in Post 2795 is I would say a fairly rudimentary version of what I am currently thinking, with Catboi's response in Post 2803 being particularly unlikely from them as town.
I also quite strongly believe that Catboi-town does NOT truly believe in the post they make in 2749.

Who the fuck are you to make assertions about what I would/what not do from behind a secret alt?

You

fucking coward prick

That is an

outright goddamn lie

that shows you have no fucking clue how I act as town and are making shit up to attack me. It is completely egregiousbullshit. The only substance is, what, I wouldn't act mean as town? laughably bullshit


you fucking disgusting creep, sayign this shit from behind an alt

[Menalque]

can you please chill out a bit catboi