Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[Dunnstral]

Having said that, why aren't you voting, Dunn? For anyone?

I did not know who I wanted to eliminate.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

VOTE: Titus

I think this needs to happen though. Both the Alianna and Dunnstral pushes were based on things that are just objectively not true, and I'm not buying the "I'm the only competent player in the game" act, despite sharing her frustration with the no lim D1.

Really strange phrasing - 'this needs to happen'. Only vote for people you think are scum.

Cat.jpeg voting for Radical Rat makes me think they aren't paired, and I'm more sure of RR being scum.

UNVOTE: Cat.Jpeg

VOTE: Radical Rat

I don't think RR and Cat are the scumteam but you need to be careful with logic like this, ie. x voted y therefore x and y are not scum together. Scum love to bus, they do it all the time to try and get town credit.

[MegAzumarill]

Votecount 1.1.5


Titus (4*) Alianna, GoldfishFromTheMoon, Radical Rat, Dunnstral [E-1!]
Alianna (2) Titus, MalcolmTucker
Radical Rat (2) Cat.jpeg, Furtiveglance


Not Voting (1): Flea the Magician

With 9 alive it takes 5 to send to the shadow realm.
* Denotes plurality

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 16:07:45)

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry I've been busy and behind, will catch up.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm happy to go back and read through Titus' ISO here - and perhaps I'm being influenced by the fact we appear to have somewhat similar scumreads - but I really don't think they're mafia here and wouldn't be comfortable voting there. Disagreed largely on the no lim thing but I think this is mostly just genuine frustration.

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Titus

I think this needs to happen though. Both the Alianna and Dunnstral pushes were based on things that are just objectively not true, and I'm not buying the "I'm the only competent player in the game" act, despite sharing her frustration with the no lim D1.

Really strange phrasing - 'this needs to happen'. Only vote for people you think are scum.

Cat.jpeg voting for Radical Rat makes me think they aren't paired, and I'm more sure of RR being scum.

UNVOTE: Cat.Jpeg

VOTE: Radical Rat

I don't think RR and Cat are the scumteam but you need to be careful with logic like this, ie. x voted y therefore x and y are not scum together. Scum love to bus, they do it all the time to try and get town credit.

Could be wrong but I imagine this would be especially true in smaller games as well typically where it's more imperative for scum to try and diassociate themselves from each other where possible - if it becomes obvious who is paired with who then it's game over, unlike in larger setups where you can be more explicit in TR'ing a scum buddy because the advantages of keeping them in for a turn or two more outweigh any disadvantages of you defending them too hard.

[MalcolmTucker]

In 281, Radical Rat has me as slightly scummy, but in 397 they're talking about me like I'm conftown. 355 does it too to a lesser extent. Kind of looks TMI.

This is a good catch which needs to be explained by RR.

Are they really talking about Alianna as confirmed town in 397 though? Their reads seems to have shifted here to wanting Titus eliminated (which I guess could be perceived as being quite opportunistic) but I don't see anything there which stops them from reasonably shifting back to Alianna at some point.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunn might be scum here.

Go on

Scum!Dunn struggles with content and I saw you elsewhere.

If this is what has people concerned about Titus, I'm struggling to fundamentally see a major issue with it at all. Wouldn't mind seeing the read elaborated to gauge whether Titus is still here or if their read has shifted elsewhere at all but it's hardly overly incriminating?

[MalcolmTucker]

I suppose I'm just really struggling to see a world where neither Dunn nor Alianna are scum here and it feels very convenient for them both that they are sitting on the Titus wagon. Might not be a team though since I'd wager someone from scum team might be sitting off the wagon for now for some town-cred if it goes through and Titus comes back clean.

[Cat.Jpeg]

me, RR, and furtive in a triangle, nice

This is such a weird comment. Do you think it proves that we're all town? What's the point of commenting on this?

I thought it was mildly humorous. Sorry for being inactive today. Will post more tmr morning.

[Alianna]

In 281, Radical Rat has me as slightly scummy, but in 397 they're talking about me like I'm conftown. 355 does it too to a lesser extent. Kind of looks TMI.

This is a good catch which needs to be explained by RR.

Are they really talking about Alianna as confirmed town in 397 though? Their reads seems to have shifted here to wanting Titus eliminated (which I guess could be perceived as being quite opportunistic) but I don't see anything there which stops them from reasonably shifting back to Alianna at some point.

It was the way 397 was phrased and also the fact that they never explained why their read on me shifted.

[Alianna]

I still think Titus is scummier, but if she flips green that's something to look into.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry, I've had a lot happening past couple days, didn't find the energy to engage here.

At any rate, I have to agree that Titus looks bad here. Alianna push/vote was questionable, but I was willing to take it as just being wrong, moving on to Dunnstral with a similarly bad/reachy push after no one bit on Alianna though... I think that tips the scale a bit too far.

Lol.

Now I have lost pretty much all hope for this game.

There's no one competent here I can build around.

Most everyone fucked up D1 mechanically.
People ignore social dynamics in a game.

I'd sub out here but that would be strategic here so *shrug*.

I could be wrong here of course and Titus may just be trying to manipulate the gamestate to their suiting but this does not feel scummy to me - it's not exactly a useful way for scum to get town on their side, which you'd imagine scum Titus would want to do here.

[Radical Rat]

Dunn might be scum here.

Go on

Scum!Dunn struggles with content and I saw you elsewhere.

If this is what has people concerned about Titus, I'm struggling to fundamentally see a major issue with it at all. Wouldn't mind seeing the read elaborated to gauge whether Titus is still here or if their read has shifted elsewhere at all but it's hardly overly incriminating?

The problem is that Dunnstral in general struggles with content, it's not inherently AI. And Titus knows better than that.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunn might be scum here.

Go on

Scum!Dunn struggles with content and I saw you elsewhere.

If this is what has people concerned about Titus, I'm struggling to fundamentally see a major issue with it at all. Wouldn't mind seeing the read elaborated to gauge whether Titus is still here or if their read has shifted elsewhere at all but it's hardly overly incriminating?

The problem is that Dunnstral in general struggles with content, it's not inherently AI. And Titus knows better than that.

Do they struggle for content a bit more than they would as town though, if that makes sense? Perhaps what Titus is getting at here, still feels like a flimsy reason to SR Titus for me though.

[MalcolmTucker]

Also you should probably acknowledge question above RR from Alianna/Furtive.

[MalcolmTucker]

I think you are being weird and don't agree with your reads but I'm not convinced that you are mafia. I am convinced that you're not actually reading my posts except for what you want to see, though.

Scum!Dunn struggles with content

Not true

and I saw you elsewhere.

Also not true

Instead of just saying no you I will go ahead and substantiate my claims. To be clear, I am saying that Titus is lying in her last post.

My last post on site was from before my prod in this game. 351

As for the activity tell, here:

Spoiler:

it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

I did fancy shit because why not?



So, I ran all three games that you linked as well as every game that I can remember playing with Dunn through the spread sheet. Calculated Dunn's percentage of all posts made day 1 compared to how many players were in the game, then did conditional formatting to color his higher post rate games green. (because you are positing that lurk dunn = scum dunn) to then see if there is any corrolation.

The conditional formatting guessed incorrectly 4 times, got it right 1 time, and then it did not give a result on his middle of the road game.

If anything, this is wrong more then it is right, and lurk Dunn = town Dunn.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87781 - Chromatic Ascension, Dunn was Knight Beige
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=87638 - True Love
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83971 - Forest Fire

some (semi-)recent samples of lurkscum Dunn
there could be others from games I didn't keep tabs on but it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

-GE

I'm not lurking in the first 2 games, I'm town in the last game.

omg. If you were town in Forest fire, that would eliminate the singular correct guess based on posting habits, and it will have been wrong in every single listed game lmao

I'm not saying that my activity here makes me town, but claiming it is my meta to lurk as scum doesn't appear to be correct and I think that the above proves that.

VOTE: Titus

For lying and not responding to any of my posts after misrepresenting me numerous times

Dunn, is it solely Titus' misrep of your activity you're voting them for? I could be too determined on Titus town here but I get the impression that may be laziness more than scum to be honest - would feel a bit careless from Titus if they were scum. Just noted your read very quickly went from sort of townie on Titus to voting for them.

[furtiveglance]

I didn't like that E-1 by Dunnstral. Titus isn't giving me scum vibes here. The scum vibes come from Radical Rat, Cat.Jpeg and Dunnstral. I think a pivot is in order.

[Alianna]

She did say "sheep me or get me out." And since I've learned my lesson about sheeping scumreads on myself, I feel obligated to leave my vote where it is. But also that's not something I'd ever expect scum to say. So I might re-evaluate my case. Any hammery shenanigans will be taken as a scumclaim.

[furtiveglance]

She did say "sheep me or get me out." And since I've learned my lesson about sheeping scumreads on myself, I feel obligated to leave my vote where it is. But also that's not something I'd ever expect scum to say. So I might re-evaluate my case. Any hammery shenanigans will be taken as a scumclaim.

This makes no sense. If you're town, unvote this player that you clearly read as town. Why would you listen to "sheep me or get out"? Those are not the only options.

[Alianna]

She did say "sheep me or get me out." And since I've learned my lesson about sheeping scumreads on myself, I feel obligated to leave my vote where it is. But also that's not something I'd ever expect scum to say. So I might re-evaluate my case. Any hammery shenanigans will be taken as a scumclaim.

This makes no sense. If you're town, unvote this player that you clearly read as town. Why would you listen to "sheep me or get out"? Those are not the only options.

443 was me being petty, and I really shouldn't do that.
That and similar comments have been giving me pause, but I do feel I have legitimate reasons to scumread Titus.

[MalcolmTucker]

But fundamentally here do you actually confidently think Titus is scum? The fact you wouldn't expect scum to say what Titus said (your own words) indicates to me it potentially isn't.

[MalcolmTucker]

Reckon a wagon on Alianna would have a much better chance of succeeding than one on Titus personally.

[furtiveglance]

I don't like the look of the Titus wagon, apart from Goldfish.

[Alianna]

Reckon a wagon on Alianna would have a much better chance of succeeding than one on Titus personally.

Can confirm I'm limbait.
(making a post on Titus rn)