Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Irrelephant11]

ari and i planning to join games together? who would've seen that coming

skitt, did you read my Thoughts(tm) on irrel and std and like, where am i going wrong?

Sorry i'm in the office today so i'll respond later / be around sporadically

When you're responding to datisi's reads of me and the dragons please also respond to his read of aristeia thank you that is all bye *hangs up*

[Irrelephant11]

Alright let's start with datisi because I now think he's probably town and I want us to townblock if so, because boy wouldn't that make it hard for scum to wiggle their way into a coalition

DANGIT I FORGOT ABOUT MY WORK MEETING be back in an hour

[Irrelephant11]

it ended early

[snip]

yes, i get that this section is probably(?) criticizing me for my vocabulary choice [snip] i'm pretty sure irrel can also see it's not a very good point.

(3) boy oh boy.

first, i don't do second hand meta cases. i know you've never played with me so it's very unlikely you know this, but i've said this multiple times over in the past.

then, the reason why i almost decided you were "just scum" was because you entered that game and had some sorta game-related action within a minute of entering. while here, [snip]

what did you think was my point here anyway? that i arbitrarily decided to trash my case because you just so happened to be a replacement that game?

2) Yeah it was a scumvibe from word choice. The reason I can both say "here's what I'm thinking" and later "I don't really feel that strongly about that post" is I was exploring a theory for the sake of it. Like most of its value was getting you to become townier by way of anger at me
3) I had no idea what the point was of your meta read on me that you changed your mind on midstream. That's why I thought it was kinda scummy - looked like busywork. But I currently get the vibe that as a person you just enjoy busywork so now I don't scumread it, really.

"overexplain-y"

This annoyance feels real, though I guess scum sometimes manage to get actually-annoyed when they're scumread for bad reasons because "hey no fair! that's not even why I'm scum!"
But this emotion feels towny.

next order of business will be reviewing irrel and std because i feel like they are both people that most others think are town, but that i did not get any definitive townpings from but did get some scumpings from,

So this is my one worry still about Datisi, is that fmpov StD and I are a small part of a townblock, and Datisi doesn't like it. But from experience playing coalition, sometimes two opposing townblocks form and its takes awhile to realize. So I'm trying to let this roll off my back and see where that gets me

[Irrelephant11]

make me think you were genuinely interested in sorting me by pushing me as opposed to pushing me because it's easy

I think you decided too quickly that I was pushing you for opportunism when I was indeed bothering you to make you sortable. I actually did this with no lunch in the coalition game I linked a page or two ago, it worked then and (I think?) it's working now

a lot of it feels like going through the motions for the sake of looking like he's thinking about things rather than actually thinking about things, especially since his latest coalition is "i sheep std" which makes it so he doesn't even have to stand strongly behind it

now, these ^^ things don't necessarily make someone scum. saying "you don't have content 48 hours into the game on page 15" is like, not Quite it. but it's illustrating a trend which makes me wary and which makes me very much not understand why it seems like everyone is townreading him

I did actually fully stand behind the heal list that I said was sheeping StD, I wrote it out, then realized it was the same as StD's, then tacked on "sheeping StD" to point out that we are on the same page, so others had the opportunity to join our page
I think you're scumreading me for being too widely townread for how far into the game we are... but that's a reason to examine those who are townreading me too easily, not a reason to scumread me
This also actually ties back into my secret scum catching thought from earlygame that I will reveal very soon (preferably after a few more posts from mala and NK15)

bloop

have you considered reading the very next sentence in 343:

but also as far as i can tell he is an Experienced Player so there's only so far that the tonal aspect can give me good vibes from him.

I get that you're saying *you* don't townread me for tone. But you pointed out that my tone feels pure. So *it should make sense to you* that others are townreading me for tone, even if you think they should aim for deeper reads than that.

[Irrelephant11]

I think datisi's towncase of Aristeia is a good one and I think Datisi is pretty towny and I would like them both in the coalition

If [person I don't want to mention by name lest they cater their play to me] towns it up a bit more I'm close to feeling comfortable healing a list without me in it

[Irrelephant11]

414 could be pocketing but for now I'd like to think menalque just gets me

[fireisredsir]

I think datisi is mad at my shading his slot in the same way I've seen happen many times when two people's playstyles don't gel (I think mine and Datisi's don't gel).

I'm over here like "I'll just play and push and pull and read and vote and see if I can achieve some stuff for town without breaking my back"
Datisi is like "Unwritten thoughts don't exist, therefore I will write all of mine and dislike any posts without every thought on paper"

And I poked at him a bit and he got mad in a self-righteous way I think is hard to fake as scum

like this just is pure scum tbh

can you elaborate on this read. why is it scumplay?

i thought it was kinda self-evident but apparently not ???

it just feels very... narrative-setting in a slimy way. like he is deciding what datisi thought and it feels like he is twisting things to both discredit the suspicion ("oh its just a playstyle clash from both sides and we're both wrong!") and also townread datisi for it at the same time. it's also the fact that it is setting a narrative for his own play ("im over here like") that makes it out to look towny, in a way that to me makes it feel like the play was designed to appear that way. maybe it is just town that describes things in ways that happen to set off my "this is not genuine" detector, but it just feels very sus to me. now that i think about it, it kinda reminds me of tenebros in the large if y'all remember that, but he did end up being town

im actually v surprised datisi did not have the same reaction to it that i did so idk maybe i am seeing ghosts, but this was a major alarm bells post for me

[Save The Dragons]

at first i got pings from datisi in the scum direction but now i'm getting pings in the town direction

pedit: oh no, i'm townreading fire now???

so i'm left with me/mena/skitt/ari and one of std or irrel? bleh maybe they're both town and i'm not giving enough credit to The Vibes but also time is short

just having an openness seems to come from a town mindset of trying to solve, he's not being stubborn in his reads. i dunno. it's very pingy. my friend's brother had a penguin stuffed animal named ping-ping once. i'm trying to get fire to tr me correctly by saying ping a lot. is it working? ping.

i also liked his posts on me, ari, and irrelephant, i think they're well thought out. I'd probably be okay with datisi in my coalition.

i'm just vibing with irrelephant here, content seems very stream of conciousnessy in a way that scum would avoid for fear of revealing too much.

Sorry i'm in the office today so i'll respond later / be around sporadically

my boss is in the office today...are you my boss?

Which kinda makes me think i have to include one of ari/dats

i dunno why but i really like this

NK15 - I liked his thought about me being off balance because I am mafia with Datisi, I liked the singleminded focus on pushing that worldview - it feels like something he genuinely believes.

nk15 - so i guess on surface i kinda agree with you, but then when i think about it more, i wonder: wow, there really isn't a ton of nuance here, and he's very dogged abt this opinion, and doesn't really seem to be revisiting it much, so now i'm less ure

especially considering skitter doesn't quite buy into the theory that they're scum v scum (i'm guessing from this post) but is still a little suspicious? she's willing to challenge nk15's static read despite having a similar theory. i dunno i just like it. ping

[Save The Dragons]

literally just copying irrelephant's tags here

HURT: all
HEAL: menalque
save the dragons
datisi
aristeia
irrelephant

i could do skitter in place of someone tho i might prefer that but this seems fine for now

[fireisredsir]

ari

why is ari scummy? i skimmed through your iso and i'm not sure i see it

your towncase somewhat convinced me not to scumread her but im still not especially trusting. i think she's been less scummy lately as well but the early game felt very much like a scum entrance to me. i didn't get much feeling of actual drive to solve behind her posts, it felt mostly like she wanted to set up a thread presence.

i also thought her scumread on me was p questionable early, not the fact that she had it, but the way in which she pushed it. 190 specifically. i just don't really believe that she genuinely thought that me not posting for 7ish hours after she page 1 suspected me was something that was scum-indicative for me.

i know neither of those are exactly the strongest scum reasons but people tell me she is scary as scum (i think i have not ever had the pleasure of experiencing it myself?) and so if i have a reason to suspect early on im not gonna let it go away completely just cause she started goodposting

[fireisredsir]

ok continuing on the irrelephant point but he seems to have a pattern, like with 427 he is sort of responding to a datisi post about suspicion on him but also really the bulk of what he's saying is about how the post affects his own read on datisi

and i know that like objectively strictly yes that maybe should actually be a towny thing to do, to care more about your reads on other people than about their reads on you

but it feels like its one step further, like its caring more about other people's perceptions of your reads on other people

and it also makes it look like it's a response to the post but actually it really isn't?? like this is obviously super reductive but it feels to me like if person A says "hey person B, I think you're scum for reason X!" and then person B's response is "*pats head* thats a nice reason you have there person A, you're town!"

and i know the post after was slightly more response-focused but still

idkk maybe it really is just a playstyle thing and i will go look at some past games to see if i should be ignoring this feeling but ahhh it makes my skin crawl reading it, just feels super slimy

[fireisredsir]

it's very pingy. my friend's brother had a penguin stuffed animal named ping-ping once. i'm trying to get fire to tr me correctly by saying ping a lot. is it working? ping.

the ping doesn't help but the non sequitur about stuffed penguins does, maybe

[Save The Dragons]

ping

[fireisredsir]

hi irrel!!

why did you call me Irrel?

this is an example of an angleshooty townie post because I think he thinks at that moment in time maybe you heard someone refer to him as irrel in a scum pt and it struck him as weird you referred to him that way.

a lot of his thoughts are angleshooty in a townie way but I guess if he's good at faking angleshooty thoughts then maybe this is NAI for him?

I am kind of just going with a general profile of the player because I have no experience with him.

see like for me that post felt way too on the nose. like obviously he wants people to think that was the reason he asked. but does he seriously care or think that the line of questioning will go anywhere? like what possible answer will datisi give that will make him go "aha! you're scum!"

literally no answer

its a pointless question and it is pure performance

you said that you don't know if performativeness is AI here but this instance of it just seems way more likely to come from scum to me

[fireisredsir]

also if y'all that suspect me want to not include me alongside whoever you think is scum with me im cool with that and will be fine to vote for it if there's a consensus

mala has still done nothing really so she's a leave out and prob just is scum

nk15 sure whatever idk, i kinda feel like he believes what he's saying but wouldn't be too unhappy with him being left out

kinda want skitter and datisi in most

mena is slightly town of null, i think, maybe

ari slightly on the scummy side of null ig, and i feel like she will just win if she is scum and the coalition fails

irrel and std i want out

[Irrelephant11]

literally no answer

its a pointless question

to be fair

as soon as I read datisi's answer I thought
"oh crap, there's no answer there that would convince me I caught him"
so you're right that it was dumb but I also think you're the one pulling a narrative by suggesting that I've done many towny things and therefore must be scum

[Irrelephant11]

Like fire you basically towncased me and then said "but it feels performative! so none of the town points count"

[Irrelephant11]

And if you think my tone is performative I'd love for you to explain why that's AI

Like it's my first game back after years yes I'm going for the coalition ~with style points~

[Irrelephant11]

fire/NK15 could be a team trying to separate the elephant+dragon team from the flirtmance by amplifying townies' stated paranoia (skitter's paranoia re:flirtmance, datisi's paranoia re:me & dragons), maybe. with fire aiming to get in the coalition and nk15 not as much

[Irrelephant11]

fire/NK15 could be a scumteam trying to separate the elephant+dragon townblock from the flirtmance townblock by amplifying townies' stated paranoia (skitter's paranoia re:flirtmance, datisi's paranoia re:me & dragons), maybe. with fire aiming to get in the coalition and nk15 not as much

EBWOP for clarity

[Irrelephant11]

For a minute I had thought datisi was trying to shade townies to make the coalition harder, but fire is now coming in with the same takes, only delayed, which makes them feel a lot more opportunistic and less likely to be real (though still possible, I don't know for sure, could be mala/nk15 scumteam struggling to enter the thread tbh)

[Malakittens]

sorry I had to focus a lot on an EOL game so i kinda heavily focused there, but it's over now

[Irrelephant11]

also if y'all that suspect me want to not include me

you think 5 of us are scum?

[Irrelephant11]

oops did that quote wrong

[Irrelephant11]

mala... prob just is scum

nk15... wouldn't be too unhappy with him being left out

ari slightly on the scummy side

irrel and std i want out

you think 5 of us are scum?