Mewbie 2094 -- GAME OVER

[Takemikazuchi02]

Wouldn't have guessed LLD stood for lambdadelta. Makes sense in a mafia forum I guess.
My first game had a no kills N1 too and just like that game I don't think an intentional no-kill scenario is worth considering so first we need to confirm so I think mass claim is worth considering because the game may already be over.

[Lukewarm]

Also, newbie 2093 ended, so I can say that Asphodelus replaced out because she wasn't feeling into her games. So I don't think her dropping from this game is necessarily AI, and I'm not sure her being underwhelming compared to her other games is necessarily AI. I still think worst's play from Day 1 is significantly scum-motivated.

I am not feeling the worst right now, and I think that we should kill Goodmorning.

I felt off about a lot of goodmorning posts day 1.

First thing I didn't like was the repeated busy work questions that they asked in post 40. Like three in a row.

Then I liked a lot of catboi's points about them.

I felt like they got overly defensive when dealing with syugar. Particuarly the "slanders and lies" line.

It also stood out to me that they kept doing a page number reference thing in their posts. Like, a lot.

Spoiler:

Page 5

Page 6 (and the top of page 7)

Page 8:

Page 9:

Page 13

Page 14

Page 15:

Through 17:

Through 19:

Through present

Seeing it, I really didn't like it on a gut level. Especially as it kept happening. I went back and checked their iso in their last couple games over night, and I did not see this in any of them. Like, not a single post doing it. Much less how many times it happened here.

I feel like I think it could be because they are self conscious, and feel the need to clarify their posts.

I'm holding off my vote until we decide if we are doing the popcorn thing.

[the worst]

Haha yeah, not a common acronym, LLD is just a really well known user on this site.

[Malakittens]

Votecount 2.0

Not Voting (8): cat.jpeg, goodmorning, syugar, Lukewarm, Bellaphant, catboi, the worst, Takemikazuchi02

With 8 alive it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-05-19 08:00:00)

[syugar]

No deaths is good-ish. Given how stalled out things were yesterday, I was thinking that if no PRs died during the night we'd have people claim to narrow down the pool of suspects. Thoughts? (taking a page from LLD with this strategy)

I am not opposed to this, i dont think? LLD convinced me that day 2 popcorn pr claims is good in general a while back - but I have not thought a out whether a lack of kill affects that at all.

nope not with 8 alive

[Bellaphant]

@mod,.vla until monday

[syugar]

slank cover til tomorrow, dont know what to say

[syugar]

theres no massing with 8 people it makes sense with 7 imo

in that sense it sucks no one died

[syugar]

catboi, t02, bella i believe to be town, squabbling over who else gets elim i dont particularly care, still

[the worst]

not sure I see much diff between massing in 6:2 and massing in 5:2 tbh they're both one day from elo. not massing just increases odds of information loss if someone's hit and means there's less chance of scum being outed via massclaim if we do it in elo

what difference are you seeing there?

[the worst]

catboi, t02, bella i believe to be town, squabbling over who else gets elim i dont particularly care, still

probably fine

[goodmorning]

Massclaiming makes no sense with either 8 or 7 alive. Trying to hamstring your PRs at this stage of the game in a semiopen is not correct and I will fight anyone who thinks it is. (Even LLD, and I really like LLD!)

Now, if this were an Open, it probably would be correct, but this is not an Open.

Also: in the specific Tracker scenario mentioned, where a JK claims, it would make more sense for the Tracker to claim VT so that they can continue to investigate; otherwise they are completely useless as they'd likely eat the JK N2 (i.e., not being able to do their job) and very possibly become a miselim candidate afterwards, since they wouldn't even have "innocent child" status by way of the massclaim.

I think the only other thing for me to address is @Luke:
1. You clearly haven't been actually reading my posts if you're bringing "lies and slander" back up again.
2. What makes you think those were "busywork" questions instead of, I don't know, actual questions?
3. You wouldn't have noticed that over my "last couple games", since it's usually something I do when I get behind/replace in to games. My last game i was one of the more prolific posters, and the games before that were when I was in the process of site flaking 6 years ago and did not give a single shit about staying informed.

Anyway, more reads stuff later when I can be bothered but suffice it to say catboi may actually be Town. When I reread the game just for content and not tone, there was nothing in his posts to dislike. Also I figured out what I didn't like about Cat using the same words as me - mirroring can be used to buddy (& is the most common method of irl buddying, intentional and otherwise). Whether that means anything here is still undecided.

[catboi]

VOTE: goodmorning

shrug

[the worst]

i have several concerns & like where this is going

VOTE: goodmorning

[syugar]

not sure I see much diff between massing in 6:2 and massing in 5:2 tbh they're both one day from elo. not massing just increases odds of information loss if someone's hit and means there's less chance of scum being outed via massclaim if we do it in elo

what difference are you seeing there?

in a slightly mathematically worse position id like the option for them to maybe miskill

[syugar]

and, i mean, if theres an rb rather than a rolecop the chance is pretty good

[syugar]

catboi, t02, bella i believe to be town, squabbling over who else gets elim i dont particularly care, still

probably fine

maybe misremembering, u werent in the catboi tmi camp?

[syugar]

nvm ill just reread later im being bad

[syugar]

btw

chance for another kill block if we dont mass

the extra elim is pertinent here

[Bellaphant]

The worsts reads seem to be 'elim anything that isn't me'. I've not played with them much, but I don't recognize this kind of survivalist/ opportunist vibe. I'd like to see them really take ownership of a case, even if to understand their thought process.

[the worst]

less "anyone who isn't me" at this point, more "anyone I don't townread". i'm not really sure i convinced myself on catboi. i think i was probably wrong to scumread cat.jpeg on catchup.

on reread i'm not really convinced goodmorning is a good townread and i don't like their opening to this phase.

catboi, t02, bella i believe to be town, squabbling over who else gets elim i dont particularly care, still

probably fine

maybe misremembering, u werent in the catboi tmi camp?

yeah i was...... i changed my mind tbh

not sure I see much diff between massing in 6:2 and massing in 5:2 tbh they're both one day from elo. not massing just increases odds of information loss if someone's hit and means there's less chance of scum being outed via massclaim if we do it in elo

what difference are you seeing there?

in a slightly mathematically worse position id like the option for them to maybe miskill

i think it's just not a very probable situation unfortunately. like yeah it'd be super sweet to get 1-3 living cleared slots & 4-5 elims in a 9p game. it's just a really unlikely. more likely we end up with 1-2 living clears tomorrow and 1-2 eliminations left without a safety net for discrediting counterclaims.

i'm becoming a bit bored of this convo & would rather just annihilate the scums via dayplay anyway, so i won't labour this. but the arguments against massclaiming aren't convincing.

[Cat.Jpeg]

If both prs claim neither of them will definitely die (because we have a protective role) unless we have a mafia roleblocker which is a 2/5 chance. If there isn’t a roleblocker then I think its still unlikely doctor/jailkeeper will save the nk and it will be wifom thing. Bit better chance if it’s a jailkeeper though but still not good odds. I think the prs should claim tmr. If one of the prs dies sure we miss out on a potential conf town that they could of told us of, but on day 3 we can just look at their biggest townread from today. As for if a jailkeeper dies well yea their info will be lost.

About jailkeeper, obviously a conf mafia is more useful than a conf town but is a 'either mafia or nightkill' more useful than a conf town? im not sure but if we had a jailkeeper they probably picked someone with the intention of protecting them or stopping them from killing so they likely have an opinion about whether their target is town or not. I'm opposed to mass claim today unless we have a jailkeeper with somebody they think is scum (or a different role with a guilty but obviously you should always claim if ur that). If thats the case then the jailkeeper should claim then we should start popcorning after that. I don't think its good to have only one of the prs claiming, it should be all or none based off of what happened in my last game where scum claimed tracker, a role that was compatible with both real prs so neither counterclaimed. Anyway if none of the prs claim we can just assume they only have conf towns. (i guess if somebody had a conf townread on the worst or GM or something that would be useful too, up to you if you want to claim on that)

[Cat.Jpeg]

Also I figured out what I didn't like about Cat using the same words as me - mirroring can be used to buddy (& is the most common method of irl buddying, intentional and otherwise). Whether that means anything here is still undecided.

I am also mirroring your pfp. Anyway I had no idea you used 'I don't love' so much until I checked your iso, it was completely subconscious. My scheming is no where near the purposefully copying mannerisms level yet. Also hate to say it but you townreading me probably wouldnt help me too much this game.

[Takemikazuchi02]

Personally I'm not confident that we"ll eliminate scum today and if we don't we'll be at lylo tomorrow and pr claims will lose a lot of their power because maf can cc and force a 50/50.

VOTE: goodmorning lets start this popcorn thing by forcing gm to claim.

[Takemikazuchi02]

E-2 btw