Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[VP Baltar]

First two people I just found independently scummy and the "last vote more scummy than 3-5" is kinda baseless beyond I feel like it

Why do you think I'm scummy again?

[Gammagooey]

I wanna poke at this for a bit
VOTE: Bell

Also think that Marci & Bell wagons both existing for a bit would be NEAT and I can maybe help make that happen

[gorilla]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

[VP Baltar]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

The basic logic, as I see it, is Marci voted datisi, got pushed as to why and then came up with post hoc reasoning that doesn't make a lot of logical sense.

Now, could be Marci is just a townie who decided to over justify a vote and didn't really think a lot about what she was saying, but she also could be scum here. Double downs aren't always easy to read, but I don't think Marci has responded coherently to pressure, and if she is town, she could have just admitted it was kind if a bullshit vote and not actually that serious.

[Lukewarm]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

I played in a hydra with Marci a little while ago, and I made an RVS vote. She was upset with me for casting that vote. Like, openly said that I should not have made that RVS vote against someone that she was not sure that was scum -- IN THREAD -- not even saving it for our hydra chat.

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

That being said, my scum read on her has mellowed a bit since last night, but that was the major red flag that I was dealing with at the time.

[Enchant]

Hi, i forgot about this game.

I will not catchup so please tell me who to vote.

[Enchant]

SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

[Meuh]

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

Do you think it means anything in terms of her alignment this game?

Marci and I tend to read each other poorly, especially early on in games. A whole lot of inaccurate scumreading.
I still don't think it's unrealistic for Marci to feel neut about me here though.
What does feel off about it is her using this read on me to push back on Datisi. Even if she does feel neutral about me, I don't think she says this:

i also *shocker here* dont agree with meuh feeling off yet, i think she hasnt done much alignment indicative yet and i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

This does not really seem like a way to go after Datisi that I expect town!Marci to do.

Honestly my approach on reading Marci as of late is to just not do it on day 1
It's not worth the effort in forming a read that'll probably be poor and I'd rather spend that time and energy somewhere else.
I think I'm decent at reading Marci later on in the game with flips having happened so I'd rather do it then. (viewtopic.php?p=12746354#p12746354)
There's a need for it here though because of the wagon on her, and while I don't feel great about her, it's not as strong of a feeling as the one on Lavar.

Also I just found out you can highlight a part of a post before quoting it and it'll only quote that part??? That's so useful how did I not know this

[Gammagooey]

Hi, i forgot about this game.

I will not catchup so please tell me who to vote.

SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP

There's less than 10 pages so far, do you want to die to invictus night 1?

b/c posts like this is how you wind up dying to a n1 invictus

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ilu gammagooey

Also so tired

[Meuh]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

what is the "more" you are looking for? more content? it was like a few hours into the game when you posted that

More content, more justification for the vote, anything telling of their alignment. I think their vote on Datisi was scummy. I wanted to throw a vote on them for pressure's sake.

[Bell]

@dwlee, you still haven’t answered. You just complained that you didn’t like it.

@Gamma: *psst* you still missed.

Anyway, today sucked I guess I’ll post later. I obvtown on my own tho, so. Oh Gooey doesn’t know me.

[Dunnstral]

A good part of me wants to call Luke town for not knowing who I am tbh, cause I know someone in maf chat has said who I am, it's not hard to figure out, but then I think about it, and Luke says he looked at my "1 game, and I didn't out reads there" ok sure, but I definitely outed myself that game, so like, you didn't see that happen? but you read it? interesting... idk, it's not a solid read I'd die on, but found it worth mentioning.

How do you know that? That seems like a weird assumption to me. How many people here do you think know who you are?

[marcistar]

^^ dismissing fire for not understanding a point you did not explain well, at best

how was that dismissing i was trying to talk it out

i'm not inviting, no. but i said what i find to be scummy posts from you and it's on you to try to change my view. i don't plan on begging you to explain yourself to me because i don't think you're approaching me in good faith at all.

where have you pointed something of mine out and specifically said "thats scummy"? all I can find is you responding to stuff of mine by asking shading it, but you've never specifically said its suspicious.
i think ur just trying to skirt around the truth that im the most innocent angel to ever grace this planet...

"why arent you trying to point out proof of why i have to be wrong instead?" your reasons for scumreading me are (1) i voted someone fire voted and (2) weird speculation about my personality. i have yno way to respond to (1) because that's not why i voted vpb but i'm obviously going to say that. and there are a shit-ton of other reasons why someone would vote someone in rvs to the point i don't believe that to actually be a genuine read from you. and (2), i asked you why you came to the conclusions you did about my personality and translated it into a scumread? you ignored it?

Are you just trying to make me feel small by outyelling me..? Is that ur goal devil datisi..?
why cant it be a genuine read from me? my vote was like page one, i just explained my reasons later so whats so impossible of those being actual genuine reasons? I think you just want to shade me and get me miselimated because i'm an easy target. (:
whys it impossible for u to just understand that I think that way of ur personality because i just

do

? Do you think I don't have experience talking with liars at all?

before you ask where:

LIKE I THINK THAT BASED ON THE PERSONALITY I THINK HE HAS, I WOULD THINK HE WOULD THINK NOT REACTING TO THE VOTES WOULD BENEFIT HIM AS SCUM. I THINK THAT IT WOULD BENEFIT HIM AS SCUM BECAUSE HE SEEMS LIKE THE TYPE TO BE A SLIPPERY SNAKE, AND NOT REACTING TO THE VOTES AND NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT WILL MAKE IT SEEM LIKE HES COOL WITH IT, AND NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL OF IT = LESS SPOTLIGHT = LESS DOUBTING

and i would not do this as town... because...? like if you think i as town am insecure and doubting myself, why wouldn't i respond the same way as town? like, this whole explanation goes from how you've seen me as town, making conclusions about my personality, then attributing those conclusions to my scumgame as opposed to my towngame for ??? reasons

like, the confidence and annoyance you're showing about your reads grossly mismatch the actual confidence you should have and the quality of those reads.

I think ur just assuming I have more confidence than i actually do.

ALSO, the post where you criticize my reads

i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

saying i'm "hating" on someone because i said they might be scum 6 pages into a game is a little bit over the top, no?

and a lot of your points against me are "i don't agree here i don't agree there" and it's framed as if i'm scummy but why is having different reads scummy? like, the only instance where you actually explained why i might be scum for my reads is for my read on you, and i already said my problems with it so i don't feel like repeating myself but yeah

I wasn't trying to say "having different reads is scummy" but people keep framing it as so, so I guess we'll just say whenever I reply to anything datisi posts im just pointing out a reason i scumread him :shrug:
what i was trying to do, was say i don't agree and have an ACTUAL DISCUSSION with you but guess not!!
"hating on someone" is just the way i usually phrase things like that, i didn't mean for it to be so deep of a meaning just the dislike meaning.

but what do you think about Bell since they're Datisi's 2nd highest scumread? Also, do you have another player you think is particularly scummy aside from Datisi at this point?

i dont have thoughts on bell rn which is why i dont talk about him (:: i think he is usually just more invisible than other players, i can't really deny that "bell doesnt want to be here" is a pov someone might reasonably have, but i just personally don't think that way. pressure on him rn isn't the

worst

thing, but i think pressure on others is more benefical because bell will prob just come along eventually.
maybe gorilla, i think they're a capable player whos holding back like <92, 104> i think they could easily be going harder and getting more juicy info, but it doesn't really seem like they want to do that, which scum could do that? like scum dont want the game to move forward.
maybe sircakez but thats because i don't like his starting post.

theres like more people that i wouldn't mind more content from, because i don't remember them at all, but I think thats because me and datisi stole the spotlight of the game.
i think

if

datisi is town that scums sitting back and just letting this fight happen. it would explain why i cant remember anyone else

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

so selfish....... me scumreading someone is a sign of my friendship with them obviously.... you don't want me to be friends with datisi..?

still sus of marci, a lot of that early stuff about datisi is just... i have a hard time seeing it coming from a town mindset. but also like... no offense marci, but she seems clearly new. sometimes i have a hard time understanding the thought process of newer players. and like, i agree with the points for why she's scummy, but idk, some of the people jumping on her feel a bit opportunistic? and it sketches me out a bit. probably overthinking here but whatever

rude... im not new.... im the best player ever....
who is it who feels opportunistic for "jumping on me" here?

Gonna
UNVOTE: Baltar
VOTE: Marci
Cause it seems it's gaining more steam and I dislike her dislike of Datisi's reads

well what if i dislike your dislike of my dislike of datisis reads
is it all of it that you dont like or only certain spots?

Now, could be Marci is just a townie who decided to over justify a vote and didn't really think a lot about what she was saying, but she also could be scum here. Double downs aren't always easy to read, but I don't think Marci has responded coherently to pressure, and if she is town, she could have just admitted it was kind if a bullshit vote and not actually that serious.

why would i want to keep going as scum though?

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

i dont play large games often, but when i do it sure is a party isnt it?

[VP Baltar]

my vote was like page one, i just explained my reasons later so whats so impossible of those being actual genuine reasons?

Your reasons don't actually make sense though....

Fire explained pretty clearly how the logic you're saying doesn't follow through, and Luke dismantled your second reason about datisi not responding to votes.

As far as why you'd keep this going as scum, I don't think that was your intention. I think you thought you were giving credible explanations for the SRSVOTE, and basically no one thinks those explanations are good. The question is if you'd try to bullshit your way out of pressure as town.

[VP Baltar]

Semi worried this is a noraa situation though.

Bleh, Gamma, you hating on Bell because he is being wall paper and not answering questions?

[Bell]

I’ll say this as many times as it takes, but not making sense isn’t a scum tell.
Yay, I love butting in where I’m not wanted to make totally productive and useful posts.

@Balt: a vague feeling. I know that Luke has a plan for Marc interactions probably either way. But I just don’t think that’s what’s happening here. It’s early, but unlike some *other players* *cough you know who you are* I’m probably not saying that because I want to hedge and hide in case miselim opportunity comes up and I discourage that from happening.

Or maybe not.

I’m terrible at alt guessing but I have zero clue who kovu is. I can’t think of many players that open like that, while also saying “like,” a lot.
I

[marcistar]

Your reasons don't actually make sense though....

they make sense to me though..?

As far as why you'd keep this going as scum, I don't think that was your intention. I think you thought you were giving credible explanations for the SRSVOTE, and basically no one thinks those explanations are good. The question is if you'd try to bullshit your way out of pressure as town.

so im just a nuisance then?

Semi worried this is a noraa situation though.

? whats this mean

[Lukewarm]

I’m terrible at alt guessing but I have zero clue who kovu is.

After they said they slipped in their other game, I checked. They are andante.

[Dunnstral]

I've never seen andante wall post before so I'm not sure why it would be obvious that this was andante

[Lukewarm]

I've never seen andante wall post before so I'm not sure why it would be obvious that this was andante

I think that they meant that at least 1 member of the scum team would have seen their alt slip in the other game. Which would have required a scum team to go scope them out i think, because there is very little over lap between games. just enchant

Spoiler:

Players

1. Kovu
   (replaces ta vera)
   
   
2. Rosarium
   (replaces Klick, Salsabil Faria)
   
   
3. Save The Dragons
   
4. the worst*
   
5. HockeyFan
   
6. NorwegianboyEE
   
7. Enchant
   
8. Frogsterking

[gorilla]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

I played in a hydra with Marci a little while ago, and I made an RVS vote. She was upset with me for casting that vote. Like, openly said that I should not have made that RVS vote against someone that she was not sure that was scum -- IN THREAD -- not even saving it for our hydra chat.

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

That being said, my scum read on her has mellowed a bit since last night, but that was the major red flag that I was dealing with at the time.

The context is helpful, thanks. Didn't seem unusual to me for a townie to be pushing a gut read in RVS at first.

[Dunnstral]

Kovu (replaces ta vera)
Rosarium (replaces Klick, Salsabil Faria)
Save The Dragons
the worst*
HockeyFan
NorwegianboyEE
Enchant
Frogsterking

This is the player list in the game where Kovu slipped their identity

2. Fey
14. Kovu
18. Enchant

Fey is the only person who could reasonably be an alt of somebody else in that game, and then kovu and Enchant are the only two players.
However, Kovu says they think they know Fey's identity in post 172, but they already thought that somebody in maf chat revealed their identity in post 164.

And the only person in that game with Kovu is Enchant. And Kovu has no opinion there. So I don't really buy that they think the maf chat is discussing their identity and are clearing Lukewarm off of that.

[Kovu]

Dunn why are you so worried about me and who I am? like, how does the exact moment people learn who I am, make anyone maf? like why are you more focused on that instead of finding maf?

[Dunnstral]

A good part of me wants to call Luke town for not knowing who I am tbh, cause I know someone in maf chat has said who I am, it's not hard to figure out, but then I think about it, and Luke says he looked at my "1 game, and I didn't out reads there" ok sure, but I definitely outed myself that game, so like, you didn't see that happen? but you read it? interesting... idk, it's not a solid read I'd die on, but found it worth mentioning.

Why did you say this?