Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Lukewarm]

luke, what's your opinion on val's vote on lavar? 803

Don't have Big Thoughts.

I too would rather Lava to go over then Marci, and if in the future Lava or Marci or Val flip, they might enlighten us to others -- but I am not so 100% sure that Val is scum that him existing on the Lava wagon sways me in any way really.

I actually had a moment when he was talking about his read progression on me, that I questioned if I was wrong to scum read him anyways.

[Bell]

Mine. Mine. Mine!

[Bell]

Robbed.

[Lukewarm]

Mine. Mine. Mine!

Got'em

[Lukewarm]

I’d like someone to tell me if Val’s focus is normally as narrow as it is this game.
To me they sound pretty realistic/natural. But there’s
What is either an AI aspect to them or it’s an idiosyncrasy of theirs.
I Don’t think I’ve played with Val before.

Wanna share Val?

I am surprised to see him so narrowly focused, but he did kinda announce that he was gonna do this

I was about to spell out who it is I mean by that, but it probably obvious whom falls into that category and I am wondering if, given the invictus mechanic, if this is a game I ought to be telegraphing exactly how my reads stand at all times. In regular games, I think that is largely how one should play, although I know there are disagreements on that score, but I wonder if the argument for playing ones cards closer to ones chest is stronger in this game than others.
...
Given the number of D1 TvT shitfights I have found myself in over the course of my mafia career, I am inclined not to choreograph my exact moves at least for today and until I feel much more comfortable I am on the right track.

[Val89]

You want me to weigh in on that?

I think those that have me pegged as normally a logical player who looks for inconsistenties and actions that don't match motivation have me right, which is one reason I am paying more attention to the fact I did have strong gut vibes this game something was off with particular slots, because of the relative rarity of that. It's also why Im struggling with Kovu, and why it's fair to say yes, I do often find myself relatively tunneled. If there is an aspect to it that is AI, I couldn't tell you, because my first few games I rolled town, and when I rolled scum I made a deliberate effort to replicate my town game as far as I can so it can't be used as AI. I don't see how you can play this game any different without gimping either your scum or town game, something I don't agree with doing so, so I think anyone telling you can read any aspect of their play as AI is either not performing their best at one alignment, or else lying to you.

As far as a narrow focus goes, that's probably a function of the fact that's its a large, and concentrating on all the details and all the interactions as I normally do is difficult.

I was pushed for the same sort of thing in Control, decided there was fuck all I could do about it, carried on and got vigged for the trouble. I figure if I get vigged here, at least I get a shot back. Given that my read accuracy on my D1 tunnel, when I listen to my head rather than my gut, has historicly been pretty shit, and better later on, I would rather keep things close to my chest.

[LavarManos]

It is very annoying that people disappear when wagons build on them. Yes

Didn't I post a few hours ago just as the wagon had formed?
For fire,
1. In the early game, I am trying to accumulate information. Honestly, throughout the whole game tbh. I like to play from the side.
2. Yes, I try to be polite. That's just my style. I get why you think scum might act like that to get townread though, but you can meta me if u want. About Meuh, I wasn't buddying her. I just make a joke lol.
3. It's true I have not really interacted with anybody that has suspected me. That is because nobody really gave any good reasons, so I didn't see the point. Only when I get voted so much is there a point.
4. My vote on Val might have looked sus because it's a one liner. But wouldn't you agree that it's weird for someone to almost completely ignore a case on them? And I disagree with you calling my marci vote opportunistic. When I voted marci, I quoted a Luke post that said she was town.

[LavarManos]

Do you think the later votes are particularly scummy? The votes with little to no explanation? What really makes it suspicious?

It formed very quickly. Now there is resistance which is more normal I suppose. All the later votes are bad ngl. Everyone's reasoning there is "marci good so lavar bad"

[Val89]

I realise I've just made another large post in reply to that, and no doubt I'll get the comments along the lines of 'I was bored by val's post' I've been seeing pop up, reminding me why I didn't have a good time the last time I was town in one of these non-9 player games.

I suppose the proper rememdy is to stick to the minis, but I thought the invictus mechanic was interesting enough in that I get a chance to influence the game even if I do end up being misread or mislim/vig bait again.

I've made no secret of the fact I'm making a conscious decision to play this game differently. I've seen others say they disagree but I don't recall any actual conversation as to why. VP has a bit of a pop, but I wasnt convinced by the argument, nor am I sure on my read there. If you think we ought to have that conversation now, I can have it, but I'm not convinced it wouldn't just be a distraction right at this particular moment.

[VP Baltar]

Everyone vote lavar or marci. This division is good.

[Val89]

Don't have Big Thoughts.

My Big thought on the matter is that what answer could fire have been expecting?

I could have written exactly the same post as 857 as to my motivations for joining the lava wagon, substituting Datisi for own name, and I don't think I hid those motivation when voting.

I see fireisredsir opining that it was 'interesting' to look at those who joined the wagon but hadn't voted there before, then Lukewarm makes a post saying 'I still think Val is scummy', and fire immediately asks what Luke thinks of my vote, and repeats the question when he doesn't answer straight away.

I was wondering if fire was trying to lay the ground for Luke to say "yeah, that vote was scummy" and try and swing the wagon my way. I'm not sure there is evidence to conclude that was the motivation at the moment, but I do think the fact Luke answered another way is suggestive they aren't partnered.

[Bell]

I don’t agree with any takes that have fire scum in them at this time. Also, you’re missing the motivation for town to kill people they suspect too. Sure though, he could have been trying to get them to expand on their read to solidify their scum read of you. Or, they just wanted to get a read on like or get an idea of what they thought.

[Meuh]

Val's last 3 posts look really good to me.

[fireisredsir]

Don't have Big Thoughts.

My Big thought on the matter is that what answer could fire have been expecting?

I could have written exactly the same post as 857 as to my motivations for joining the lava wagon, substituting Datisi for own name, and I don't think I hid those motivation when voting.

I see fireisredsir opining that it was 'interesting' to look at those who joined the wagon but hadn't voted there before, then Lukewarm makes a post saying 'I still think Val is scummy', and fire immediately asks what Luke thinks of my vote, and repeats the question when he doesn't answer straight away.

I was wondering if fire was trying to lay the ground for Luke to say "yeah, that vote was scummy" and try and swing the wagon my way. I'm not sure there is evidence to conclude that was the motivation at the moment, but I do think the fact Luke answered another way is suggestive they aren't partnered.

my question had more to do with sorting luke than it did you. i mostly wanted to get him on record with an opinion about it for future reference, im not sure if i have much of an opinion about the answer he gave at this time but i think it could become relevant depending on who flips what in the future

ive been saying since like post 200 that i want dueling lavar/marci wagons and we finally got them so idk why you think i would want to swing towards a wagon on you

i don't particularly like luke's case on you either

[Val89]

Agreed, which is why I say the conclusion I make is that fire and Luke aren't likely to be scum together, because Lukewarm has already come out with a scumread on me, and there would be no need for scum!fire to lead that questioning to an answer from scum!luke other than "yes, val's vote was scummy" if the scum team had decided I was suitable mislim material, and I can't conclude either are actually scum.

Are you saying that fire and Luke not being scum together is also not a safe conclusion?

Pedit: this to bell

[Bell]

…This is a me thing, but I’d refrain from looking for associations before flips if I were you.

[marcistar]

i dont scumread you for that anymore, i have diff reasons now!!

Which is what?

Datisis posts are very mean spirited by nature,
i think hes overly self aware too, to the point where its scummy!! like hes like oH iM jUsT aWkWaRd!! but like DOES THAT NOT SOUND LIKE EXCUSES? like once is eh enough, but i remember him doing that more than once so its certainly eyebrow raising!!
i think him attacking me and val is v sketchy too, in the way he did it, hes kinda reminiscent of this one dude i met before. even tho i know they cant be the same person i see it as a viable scum strategy. Like i said before, datisis goal this game is just to outscream anyone scumreading him, thats why it reminds me of him. Hes convincing just like this dude was, but deep down i KNOW  its same vibes!! is it not obvious?!?!? because of datisis BANSHEE SCREAMS u guys dont want to oppose him, but very clearly im not scared of the devil (:
Devil Datisi keeps jumping to the worst conclusisons possible without trying to see the otherside of things, he isnt looking at the full picture so thats scummy.
He also keeps bandwagoning otherpeoples votes, i think its just to be buddy buddy with them and make himself look cool and good in their eyes, hes obviously set himself up to succeed and YALL ARE JUST BIASED!! The easiest votes in the world which is what hes been doing all game, is not *that* hard for scum to make.

very clearly using bad logic wHy ArE yOu UsInG tHe NoTeS pT bAltEr?!?!? yDrAsSeS uSuAlLy mOrE eXcItEd As ToWn!@ LIKE HOWS THAT NOT CLEAR BS
YALL HATE ON MY REASONINGS BUT DONT HATE ON HIS BS?!??!?! HE OBVIOUSLY SEDUCED U ALL, UR ALL UNDER HIS CHARM!!

[marcistar]

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Does this mean that you expect my posts to make you go ": O" if I am town, and you don't expect to see any posts that make you go ": O" if I am scum? lol

i dont remember ur scumgame that well but i remember usually when ur town u have alot of stuff but when i think about u this game my memories failing, i dont think uve gone out of ur way that much like u usually do as town

[marcistar]

and on another note I think I tr RR, like, that's the 1 slot to not call me town lol and like all these other people automatically calling me town know I'm capable of posting all of what I've posted thus far as scum, like, I don't think I'm an easy person to just call town, but like, when VP called me scum it was "under the condition bell flips scum then we look at kovu" like, that is probably the worst way to make reads, like, as I've learned, we don't plan on chaining lims or whatever, so instead of how VP called me scum, we have RR just flat out "kovu might be" and I like that

imi thats not enough reason to townread someone

[marcistar]

but baltar, it's because i'm the devil, why would she unvote me

so true bestie

Marci ur so funny

IKR

EVERYTIME I SEE THAT POST TGE GIF MAKES ME LAUGH SO HARD

[Lukewarm]

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Does this mean that you expect my posts to make you go ": O" if I am town, and you don't expect to see any posts that make you go ": O" if I am scum? lol

i dont remember ur scumgame that well but i remember usually when ur town u have alot of stuff but when i think about u this game my memories failing, i dont think uve gone out of ur way that much like u usually do as town

This makes sense actually.

This game has totally been on my back burner / not been a priority for me this day phase because I was more focused on fighting for my life in a different game, where I was scum. I actually just lost it today :/

[Lukewarm]

For the people scumreading Marci, her noticing that make me feel like she is genuinely keeping up with me / trying to sort me

[Lukewarm]

Marci, what did you think of my Val case?

[marcistar]

I really think this is a good option, definitely at least worth putting pressure here. like, ~ 50 hours REMAINING, and there is still nothing from LLD, she was sure to tell us she was back (to answer the prod...) but there's 0 content. if anyone can find a town!LLD game where she did nothing... lol I'm pretty certain that doesn't exist

iirc ive seen her do the bare minimum and then pick it up more in the following days but pressuring her will be.. interesting.. i think? like not in regards to interesting for her but yeah

[marcistar]

Marci, what did you think of my Val case?

am i past it or

LIKE WHAT POST IA IT IN