Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[fireisredsir]

I believe that they are out of their "scum range" which is (no offense) not very large.

only slightly offended :<

i don't reaaaalllyy think that the 1 game is a very valid point of comparison to how i would be playing this game, since it was smaller, was an unusual setup, and played out somewhat weirdly as well

[Meuh]

some parts of Meuh's #1589 feel gross

What feels gross about it, and do you think these “gross” parts make me scum?

[Meuh]

1719 feels mildly town-indicative.
Dwlee’s back and forth with Fire almost looks like its objective is to discredit Fire more than anything else…
Can’t say I like that.
Looking through Dwlee’s ISO, I feel like some of their posts could very much be fabricated by scum trying to feign ignorance you know? Stuff like 1056 and 1149 kinda spooks me.
1369 is a confusing way to dismiss that argument? Though iirc that argument was used in favour of their innocence so I can’t say it think it’s scum-indicative here, might actually be +town. Ehh but they’re aware of it in 1578…
1425 I was a fan of at first, but the “town slip” was just lack of knowledge on the nightkill? Which could easily be pointed out by scum.
1655 is weird to me. Why does Kovu’s stance here actually matter? That’s, as I mentioned earlier, something I feel was made with the goal to discredit Fire. 1679 too.

Skimming through Dunn’s ISO, there isn’t that much that stands out to me? I’m not seeing much in terms of townpings or scumpings. Meh.

VOTE: Dwlee since I’m uneasy about them and feel stronger about them

[Val89]

This isn't what I remember finding the first time but I think it fits the criteria

I guess we have widely different ideas of what would count as "derisive OMGUS", if you are trying to tell me that fits the bill for you.

i mean, i guess it's partly gut. but it is also something that bell said in spring fling, that dunn as town is more likely to be somewhat dismissive and sassy when points that he deems to be wrong are made against him, and scum dunn tends to be more focused on tearing the points down logically. which, i

I noted while I was looking through the Control combined ISO that the 'tell' Noraa said she had on Dunn was 'a lack of snark', which would tally with what you report here. Of course, having been caught as scum for that once before, I expect Dunn to bear that in mind in future.

[Val89]

Ya but going back to EoD1 wagons usually doesn't go great

This might be pertinent, with the other EoD1 wagon now sat on E-2.

What makes you say this, Cakez?

[Dunnstral]

i mean, i guess it's partly gut. but it is also something that bell said in spring fling, that dunn as town is more likely to be somewhat dismissive and sassy when points that he deems to be wrong are made against him, and scum dunn tends to be more focused on tearing the points down logically. which, i guess he's done some of that too

I was town in spring fling though, and they made that argument in that game to argue that I was scum (and they were also town).

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

Instead of just saying no you I will go ahead and substantiate my claims. To be clear, I am saying that Titus is lying in her last post.

My last post on site was from before my prod in this game. 351

As for the activity tell, here:

it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

I did fancy shit because why not?



So, I ran all three games that you linked as well as every game that I can remember playing with Dunn through the spread sheet. Calculated Dunn's percentage of all posts made day 1 compared to how many players were in the game, then did conditional formatting to color his higher post rate games green. (because you are positing that lurk dunn = scum dunn) to then see if there is any corrolation.

The conditional formatting guessed incorrectly 4 times, got it right 1 time, and then it did not give a result on his middle of the road game.

If anything, this is wrong more then it is right, and lurk Dunn = town Dunn.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87781 - Chromatic Ascension, Dunn was Knight Beige
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=87638 - True Love
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83971 - Forest Fire

some (semi-)recent samples of lurkscum Dunn
there could be others from games I didn't keep tabs on but it's hard to verify how his posting rate measures to each game without doing some fancy shit I lack the time for

-GE

I'm not lurking in the first 2 games, I'm town in the last game.

omg. If you were town in Forest fire, that would eliminate the singular correct guess based on posting habits, and it will have been wrong in every single listed game lmao

I'm not saying that my activity here makes me town, but claiming it is my meta to lurk as scum doesn't appear to be correct and I think that the above proves that.

You realize that I literally voted Titus out for making things up?

Like, not a difference in opinion. Literally lying to try to justify pushing me.

And now you're doing the same thing.

You do realize that I am willing to vote you for this. Regardless of what result goldfish has here

And if we lose because two townies made things up to try to eliminate me. And I understandably voted them both out (or died trying)
And, again, not a difference in opinion, but actually just objectively making things up where what they are saying can be proven 100% false.
Then... it's not my fault we lost, I'm not going to be blaming myself, and I will very much be saying "I told you so" after. Or maybe I'll just disappear because I don't really care to argue after the game.

If you still want to go down this route, then by all means. Anyone who wants to do their own homework will notice that Flea does not display any suspicion on me.

----

So for the rest of your post:

No, Flea dying does not point to me.
No, it doesn't make sense for me to be scum with Furtive. I tried to get them eliminated on day 1... and on day. And It was reasonably close both times. It actually could have happened. There isn't really an incentive for a team of me and Furtive to vote for each other here on day 3. And I do plan on voting Furtive, as I am pretty sure they are mafia. I think Cat is probably the most likely partner and would like the tracker to figure that out.

Yes, it does not make sense to track you. Cat might be worried about losing instantly if they are partnered with Furtive, so they could be playing up suspicions on Goldfish/yourself and seeing if anybody bites.

As for the team of Me and Alianna, it doesn't make sense for us to clear you when you were scumreading both of us at the end of day 1. You also called us possible partners. When I voted you on day 2, Alianna brushed it off and said it had no chance of happening.

Spoiler:

I have a cop guilty on you Dunnstral.
Dunnstral: “prove it” :facepalm:

Like, do you really think that Noraa’s observation requires Zir to go out and quote however many posts is acceptable and then break out a pie chart. Few players do that, and the one time I’ve seen it done recently was by Pooky and he was scum arguing for Mastina town who was town.

What Noraa is arguing is something provable by them, cop actions aren't, and that's a fallacious comparison

To be clear, I am saying they are either lying or misinformed, and that what they are claiming is untrue

Your argument is that Noraa shouldn't have to back up their accusations because they're lazy, but the town should still believe them even when it is contested.

Note that I didn't contest what you said about me earlier and ask for proof, because I think it is partially the truth:

I said you counter with more dismissive arguments when you’re town instead of going into “I will quote every post I can see to bury this argument into the ground because it’s wrongo and this person is wrong and I must stop them because it is my mission to correct every person of every misstatement may this world remain pure and holy and free of contradiction. “ -Dunnstrall scum.

Subject: Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

Dunnstrall tends to snap at people that push him. I think his vote is just that. A request for white fire to back up.
I might be oversimplifying a more complex behavior tho.

I regret the MC wagon, not because I think it’s wrong but because I wish we’d done it later in the day so that the game didn’t stall.

Dang, meta is fun

And I mean real meta, the stuff you can link to, not the stuff that is true because you said so.

Incidentally, Bell, can you explain why you are scumreading me here again? I don't understand what is your issue with my questions or why you are continuing to push me here.

[Dunnstral]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

[Dunnstral]

Also I'm interested in what the tonal differences you mentioned in 1660 are

[Dunnstral]

@Luke

My invictus will be on gorilla tonight. I don't feel bad about claiming this because I really don't think I will be targeted by mafia or that they benefit from shooting into that. I'm telling you this so you have somewhere to use your power role if you can't coordinate anything before an elimination is reached. I think it would not be a bad idea for a few people to do the same, but that for most people this would be a bad idea.

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

I agree with Dunn that this is what we in the business call a 'weak shit post' from dwlee.


Based on my very recent experience of being scum locked in a 1v1 against town Dwlee, I will say the last several pages don't strike me as town Dwlee. When I had to fight dwlee in KTANE, it was terrible because they were relentless! Admittedly, I made a misplay based on greed, but they actively punished me in thread for that and I got limmed. Dwlee here is coasting and not attacking whoever they think are scum running them up. It's a very different attitude to pressure.

[Meuh]

@Luke

My invictus will be on gorilla tonight. I don't feel bad about claiming this because I really don't think I will be targeted by mafia or that they benefit from shooting into that. I'm telling you this so you have somewhere to use your power role if you can't coordinate anything before an elimination is reached. I think it would not be a bad idea for a few people to do the same, but that for most people this would be a bad idea.

Okay yeah let's maybe not lim Dunn today

Also I just remembered a good bit of what had me clear Dwlee earlier was the LLD kill. Meh I guess that's relevant, but not enough to avoid limming an otherwise scummy player imo. This also makes me curious: could the mafia have like a doctor? (Who would then block invictus kills) That could be a way to mitigate town's power and make mass-targeting one person bad, right?

[gorilla]

I think basically nothing of that post. I think his responses on the last page suck.

[Enchant]

I think all protectives in game should be on me.

[gorilla]

I'd pick at them, but rather let the people he's speaking to have a chance to respond.

[Kovu]

I think all protectives in game should be on me.

I'LL SAVE YOU!!!!

[Dwlee99]

I quoted the player list in the other game because people were talking about it.

Dwlee I pointed out how my play in this game is not omgus against sircakez, other players have too. Why are you still pushing this? It's not true that I started voting or even pushing sircakez after they pushed me. I pointed out how me giving a read on sircakez was in response to somebody else asking.

This isn't what I remember finding the first time but I think it fits the criteria

Both of these posts happen in another game

What is your argument for

this game

?

hmmm I actually don't see it here. I kinda just believed cakez it happened here and then was like oh well if it happened here then that would be scummy

[Dwlee99]

1719 feels mildly town-indicative.
Dwlee’s back and forth with Fire almost looks like its objective is to discredit Fire more than anything else…
Can’t say I like that.
Looking through Dwlee’s ISO, I feel like some of their posts could very much be fabricated by scum trying to feign ignorance you know? Stuff like 1056 and 1149 kinda spooks me.
1369 is a confusing way to dismiss that argument? Though iirc that argument was used in favour of their innocence so I can’t say it think it’s scum-indicative here, might actually be +town. Ehh but they’re aware of it in 1578…
1425 I was a fan of at first, but the “town slip” was just lack of knowledge on the nightkill? Which could easily be pointed out by scum.
1655 is weird to me. Why does Kovu’s stance here actually matter? That’s, as I mentioned earlier, something I feel was made with the goal to discredit Fire. 1679 too.

Skimming through Dunn’s ISO, there isn’t that much that stands out to me? I’m not seeing much in terms of townpings or scumpings. Meh.

VOTE: Dwlee since I’m uneasy about them and feel stronger about them

This post sucks a lot

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

Also I'm interested in what the tonal differences you mentioned in 1660 are

You are being more differential I think. Like posts like these feel very appeasy is the way I would put it, which is also what Noraa has described as being your scum game

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

I agree with Dunn that this is what we in the business call a 'weak shit post' from dwlee.


Based on my very recent experience of being scum locked in a 1v1 against town Dwlee, I will say the last several pages don't strike me as town Dwlee. When I had to fight dwlee in KTANE, it was terrible because they were relentless! Admittedly, I made a misplay based on greed, but they actively punished me in thread for that and I got limmed. Dwlee here is coasting and not attacking whoever they think are scum running them up. It's a very different attitude to pressure.

I basically had a guilty on you, there's a difference in my level of confidence here

[Fey]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

Also I'm interested in what the tonal differences you mentioned in 1660 are

You are being more differential I think. Like posts like these feel very appeasy is the way I would put it, which is also what Noraa has described as being your scum game

What part of these are appeasing...?

[Fey]

Skimmed blah blah still want kill Dwlee. Kinda feel like Meuh has +equity if Dwlee flips maf or whatever the kids say for the back and forth on Dunn and Dwlee but now “reconsidering” and then going to Dwlee at the end where their elim feels a lot more probable. Or maybe Meuh is just a waffle wolf. Whom knows!

[fireisredsir]

i mean, i guess it's partly gut. but it is also something that bell said in spring fling, that dunn as town is more likely to be somewhat dismissive and sassy when points that he deems to be wrong are made against him, and scum dunn tends to be more focused on tearing the points down logically. which, i guess he's done some of that too

I was town in spring fling though, and they made that argument in that game to argue that I was scum (and they were also town).

...yes, i know. are you saying that the given aspect of reading you is inaccurate? or that bell applied it incorrectly? not sure the relevance of this

[Dwlee99]

1727 from Meuh is actually terrible in a ton of ways though? Literally nothing they say has any actual evidence of me being scum besides maybe trying to "discredit fire" but all of those posts are me arguing with fire and trying to say why his argument I'm scum are wrong? So anything I say arguing against him would have to be a discredit? Like 1655 is pointing out that fire's meta tell on me actually indicates I'm town here, because Andante has pointed out that I haven't cared about the pressure on me. That post is a real stretch to call a discredit imo, and overall the entirety of 1727 is just flimsy reasons to scumread me packaged together hoping that people will think at least one of them is legit. I can go through each one if it's necessary but Meuh has nothing here when you read this
VOTE: Meuh

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee can you now explain how what you post in 1711 relates to this game

So you've pointed out something in another game, but where does it come up in this game? The so-called derisive OMGUS, as it were.

Also I'm interested in what the tonal differences you mentioned in 1660 are

You are being more differential I think. Like posts like these feel very appeasy is the way I would put it, which is also what Noraa has described as being your scum game

What part of these are appeasing...?

The way it's phrased is like "please explain your opinion so I can understand it" instead of "you lying scumbag I never did this thing" but it's weak and when I realize that Cakez just made that OMGUS stuff up it makes me want to vote him more than Dunn or my new shiny scumread