Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum have limited kills, and Monks essentially have to be killed by wolves.

Out of Me, STD, and SPC, who was the easiest to fade?

I don’t believe STD/SPC were ever going to be faded this game.

By killing me, it also shouts out that scum wanted me dead where as pushing to fade, you get to fade me, and then kill right after.

[Nashville Dreams]

I hated Monkeymans slot and had a bad gut ping there that wouldn't stop, normally that's enough for me to go ham and throw that slot out. That said, someone tell me why MB goes this freaking hard on the FL lim as scum when he can just shoot the slot and have done?

As Wolf, he genuinely thinks FL is mafia. He needs to protect his partners to ensure an advantageous position. That's why he has chained me after FL to protect whomever is his teammates in Menalque tictac bnuuy SoD...

As Mafia, he needs to obscure the trail of night actions leading to him. So he pops the big suspect counting on wolves helping bc FL is a required kill. The other suspect he wants is the person smart enough to analyze NKs.

[The Keeper]

Math and Klick - Wolves section

Now here's where we get into more of math's bullshit as a whole.

Let's start with this claim. It's a claim that's a) more powerful than anything else b) can morph into anything else c) gives him powerful saving capabilities in a game where the nightkills are telegraphed. He doesn't play it like that though.

He plays constructive to a narrative. He would investigate the possibility that I was mafia if he wasn't desperate to survive. He knows that he can't easily be crosskilled because mafia/wolves cannot take the risk so he says whatever he can to survive the day phase and leaves himself utterly prepared to survive the day phase.

His play insisting the mechanics are true might be TMI. The insistence that mafia shot SCP otherwise makes no sense unless he's claiming that he didn't shoot them (or that he did as mafia see the math as mafia discussion)

Monkeyman's voting patterns are not stellar for Mathblade. Monkeyman, despite being active, vote parked catboi until it was going to go through. Then he bails to tictac. This is a Mathblade bnuuy setup.

Mathblade hard townreading bnuuy and trying to force an elimination between himself and FL protects bnuuy and buys time for the third wolf to survive. He knows that if he flips wolf that we'll likely flip FL anyway due to the mechanical situation suggesting that FL is scum and no viable alternative despite that not making much sense. He wants to stop hunting.

The order of Math's usage of his role makes no sense either.

I'm not going into exquisite detail here because I've already said a lot of this in the past.

MB has claimed a gate which honestly reads to me as an Enabler is required and MB potentially has knowledge of who that is. It matches FL's claimed gate of "Monks must live". The other thing is I don't think MB's enabler knows who they are or that MB knows their alignment.

Then who would it be and why wouldn't they claim during mass claim knowing that I'd guilty them?

Your guess is as good as mine, I already went deep on Math's slot vote patterns and found nothing.
The issue is MB is wolf reading you, and while my TR is waivering quite a lot this has happened before when you've not been well and its affected my read so I'm ignoring the usual tells I look for in your play.
I suspect the enabler doesn't know.

[Nashville Dreams]

I suspect the enabler doesn't know.

An enabler that thinks they're vanilla?

[Flavor Leaf]

The missing kill theory is busted out of the water the second some wolf role flips a doctor/blocker/kill avoidance, and even then there are already other possibilities.

But if any of Math’s main reasons for pushing me goes out of the window, I become unfadeable, and i am forced to get killed, and scum have to find another misfade from the limited options.

There is no reason for the “me or FL today” other than the fact that MathScum (imo Wolf) needs to get me out of the game today or they risk MafiaMe killing a Wolf, or TownMe becoming unfadeable.

[Flavor Leaf]

My town flip opens up Nero and Nashville to being pushed as Mafia as well.

[MathBlade]

The missing kill theory is busted out of the water the second some wolf role flips a doctor/blocker/kill avoidance, and even then there are already other possibilities.

But if any of Math’s main reasons for pushing me goes out of the window, I become unfadeable, and i am forced to get killed, and scum have to find another misfade from the limited options.

There is no reason for the “me or FL today” other than the fact that MathScum (imo Wolf) needs to get me out of the game today or they risk MafiaMe killing a Wolf, or TownMe becoming unfadeable.

Except that role doesn’t exist because you’re mafia

And it has to be me or you because of numbers

[The Keeper]

I suspect the enabler doesn't know.

An enabler that thinks they're vanilla?

Likely combined, So if it was me, my role is 1-shot-gladiator, in reality it could be combined enabler 1-shot gladiator.

Not sure where Enabler comes under bastard rules.

[The Keeper]

Anyway I've spent 4-5 hours on this now, I'm going back to stardew.

[MathBlade]

I suspect the enabler doesn't know.

An enabler that thinks they're vanilla?

Likely combined, So if it was me, my role is 1-shot-gladiator, in reality it could be combined enabler 1-shot gladiator.

Not sure where Enabler comes under bastard rules.

More than likely a person would be told if enabler but I don’t think that person would claim enabler.

I am not saying whether my gate is or is not enabler

But generally enablers are not hidden

[Save The Dragons]

@Titus

I voted math because that's kind of where I'm at. So I agree with some of your case

I don't buy your theories for why there was no kill n3 tho if math is mafia which gives me a little pause (like misunderstanding the rules).

Still looking at your posts

[Save The Dragons]

ND I dunno what to say is there any specific thing you want me to respond to?

[Sword of Ducks]

jesus this is still the mathblade and flavor leaf pissing context with commentary. damn!

[MathBlade]

jesus this is still the mathblade and flavor leaf pissing context with commentary. damn!

Because scum are chicken shit to flip me and FL is being his manipulator self

The simple answer is 2 kills missing
FL is at fault because he is mafia

[Nashville Dreams]

ND I dunno what to say is there any specific thing you want me to respond to?

It's hard to ask for something specific when I'm trying to sync up reads with you guys. I want to understand and get an idea since there's likely no real protectives left and that means kills are telegraphed so I'm not going to have you soon.

I wish Klick and tictac to see my notes too.

That's fair on the nightkills thing. I don't even expect to be 100% flawless on the mechanics but I expect every action to be smart.

[MathBlade]

ND I dunno what to say is there any specific thing you want me to respond to?

It's hard to ask for something specific when I'm trying to sync up reads with you guys. I want to understand and get an idea since there's likely no real protectives left and that means kills are telegraphed so I'm not going to have you soon.

I wish Klick and tictac to see my notes too.

That's fair on the nightkills thing. I don't even expect to be 100% flawless on the mechanics but I expect every action to be smart.

…

If you really thought this you’d agree with me FL is scum unless you believe mafia no killed for two nights which is not smart.

[Flavor Leaf]

you know what else isn't smart.

killing your own partner in multiball as a half confirmable role right after a scum partner goes down

[MathBlade]

you know what else isn't smart.

killing your own partner in multiball as a half confirmable role right after a scum partner goes down

You’re not that role and you didn’t confirm what you don’t have

[Nashville Dreams]

Math, I don't want a response to this in case you're town. All I'm going to do is lay down my problems here. I'm not drawing any conclusions in this post, although I do state where I strongly lean.

The problem I have with FL being mafia is that he deliberately made the play where his team would have no way out. Skilled persuader or not, I can't see him boxing himself in. FL will almost certainly be dead on n5/n6 or n7 if not eliminated today because of the fact wolves are leading and he's one of the last two slots that can be a wolf. It just doesn't make sense.

The best way I can make the kills make sense is that you're a wolf. That still doesn't really leave me with a strong mafia suspect though. If mastina had blocked you n1 and you were a wolf going for a kill, then the missing kill n3 is the wolf kill. That was what you were posturing when you pushed FL had to be shot by wolves. Then there's no missing kill problem. The only problem is that you lied about investigating Klick n2. You telling one lie that's not verifiable is much easier to swallow than Flavor torpedoing his chances to win deliberately.

There's also a setup where you're mafia and you went all in to frame Flavor. It's my best suspicion for mafia but I'm still unsettled by it as it requires mafia forgoing a kill just go get a lim off and not having a strong push D4. The closest, according to the VCA, is you voting on after someone else. Yet, CSF stays on the counterwagon the entire time. If you were truly going all in to eliminate Flavor D4, then I'd expect CSF not to be sabotaging those efforts by voting cassowary.

None of the answers are satisfactory and you repeating your mech analysis won't change the fundamental issues that the plays just don't make sense on an intuitive level.

[Flavor Leaf]

you know what else isn't smart.

killing your own partner in multiball as a half confirmable role right after a scum partner goes down

You’re not that role and you didn’t confirm what you don’t have

i am too a monk.

[MathBlade]

Fl cannot be a wolf.

If you’re town please revise your thinking. He’s mafia (this) or town

[MathBlade]

you know what else isn't smart.

killing your own partner in multiball as a half confirmable role right after a scum partner goes down

You’re not that role and you didn’t confirm what you don’t have

i am too a monk.

You know I meant you’re not a vig

[Flavor Leaf]

you know what else isn't smart.

killing your own partner in multiball as a half confirmable role right after a scum partner goes down

You’re not that role and you didn’t confirm what you don’t have

i am too a monk.

You know I meant you’re not a vig

Sure, but I was talking about the Monk half, not the vig half.

[Nashville Dreams]

Fl cannot be a wolf.

If you’re town please revise your thinking. He’s mafia (this) or town

we know he cant be a ww b/c of OMGOSHICANTREMEMBERHERMAIN FEY'S role

[MathBlade]

Fl cannot be a wolf.

If you’re town please revise your thinking. He’s mafia (this) or town

we know he cant be a ww b/c of OMGOSHICANTREMEMBERHERMAIN FEY'S role

Then why did you just suggest he was one of two players who could be a wolf?