Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Crescent]

Spoiler:

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Do you have a townread on Corwin?

No, but I don't have a scumread either.

I don't think his recent callout on UnOwen was scummy, I think it's pretty fair to call out someone for tunneling when they have very little expansion on their read.

Did he go in a townie way about it? Often mafia think they can't possibly be scumread off so little, and you get these discharges of frustration. In TvT in my experience it can lead to page-long shitfights, not this meek type of complaining.
As town he'd be better off ignoring it and offering a better alternative, he was also not the top wagon at the moment of the post iirc.

Either way, at best you'd have a reason to ask Owen to expand on his read, not call him mafia when Corwin isn't in your obvtown-pile.

I've hard scumread someone

two posts

into a game before. Yes, yes it often gets underestimated what can be picked up on.

It ultimately depends on the player. Higher end players tend to be more careful early on and stay firmly in their "null" zone. Lesser players or players who haven't played in a while can be more loose early and it can get them into trouble. Corwi doesn't have

high

scum equity, but he's had some level of scum equity essentially all game.

Alrighty. Making my own tentative list of townies and scum.

People who are probs good

Crescent
Vivax
Umlaut
Alex
Eiralox
Clidd

Peeps who need more analysis

Corwin
Goldfish
George
Owen
Gera

If they die I wouldn't mind

NotMaf
Gibus

Agreed, Uno hasn't moved their vote since RVS and the shade in [post]307[post] feels like, er, posturing? Or would the right word be rallying.

Like whether or not they should move their vote in case there's any traction.

Specifically with Elsa she wanted to know my opinion earlier and I told her I suspected Corwin without elaborating. Since she didn't press me further I'm wondering if she just accepted me saying that or if she's actually been following my posts and has an opinion on my opinion.

Which I'm still looking for btw

@Elsa

.

Re-reading your ISO again kinda had the opposite effect of what you wanted and now your on my lower end while reading Corwin moved him up. Like... Sometimes I get sticking to the first vote but tunneling so hard day 1? Nah.

From a cursory ISO:

I think Elsa fell off a cliff too much for my taste which is in contrast to earlier activity.
Picking gibus and N_M as scum also looks baddish, they are in my launch-bait category, and Elsa didn't really look like they were putting in much effort after that list.
The whole Corwin/GB notion seems to fly by Elsa.

I put those 2 in a separate category from the people I actually thought were scummy/needed more content for a reason. Those were the acceptable policy ones.

My activity fell off a cliff for OOG work reasons. I started the game on my vacation so now I'm back to a normal busy time. Will be at work again today like I said yesterday but I am paying attention still.

Remaking my list now.

Townist:
Eiralox (definitely way better the before)
Vivax (seems to care enough about town to look into everything)
Alex (felt townie when fighting me)
Clidd (most gut but I think I played with them 2 years ago? Just feels good)

Null:
Crescent (down from before but definitely not killing today)
Corwin (Middle of the pack now so way better)
George (townier then the 3 below)
Goldfish (feels just... Like I haven't actually noticed a game changing post and feels like a wallflower))

Scummy:
Gera (don't know but they haven't rung townie immediately to me either so I'll trust the majority.)
Owen (hasn't responded well to anything really. Too obsessed)

Wouldn't care if dead but not for being evil. Just apathetic to it:
NotMaf (he is who he is)
Gibus (the guy I feel we should compromise on if we don't have a conclusion like my original plan stated)

That's my list. The big 3 I wanna focus on day 2 will probably be what's up with Goldfish Alex or Cres. Getting the alignment of those 3 solved will definitely help us solve whatever partners we can find.

Town investigative would be good on one of those 3 or maybe me/Eira. Checking a lower tier slot feels like a waste so definitely one of us 5.

I think you forgot to remake your list while remaking your list.
Also, the host is in the town pile xD

Huh... Yet another thing I should've noticed on my own. Lord I'm not sharp this game.

The host being in that pile is either a total ADHD moment by town, or it's a major gaffe by scum just pulling names out of a hat to order randomly and accidentally including the host.

Now to somehow figure out which..

I don't know if Corwin is higher end. Most high tier scum players I have experienced are able to cover up their mistakes just by being spammy as f*ck and having an imposant personality, so they end up convincing others that whatever their mistake was wasn't a big deal, plus they control part of the thread narrative through their presence. Takes lots of motivation though, so often you spot such a personality being mafia because you fish out a weaker teammate (so the stronger player loses motivation).

Could Elsa be the stronger player and one or two teammates under pressure so she fell off? Might take a few cycles to find that out.

Corwin said he hasn't played in ages. Rust is absolutely a thing when your first game back is a scum game. My issue with Corwi is there just isn't much there and what is there hasn't often given the inflection of actual game solving. I have yet to be convinced by him that he's actually trying to figure this game out, rather than just existing in it.

Mm, personally I'm more of a cut the head of the snake person off... If I'm really scum vibing on who I think scum's "leader" is, I will go right for them. Without their presence, the lessers tend to fall apart very quickly. Letting scum control the narrative of a game is the #1 way towns lose (and I think this town isn't committed enough to prevent exactly this from happening later in the game). If you can get rid of a vocal leader early, you cripple their ability to control the narrative. The higher the energy of the game, the greater the risk/reward ratio favors going for it.

[Eiralox]

read it as 'Eira's. I apologize for this human error.

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

[gibus]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time ago, too. I'd like to hear a renewed argument from both Elsa and Gibus about why their votes are still there. Uno's spoken on it lately, Corwi countervoted because he got... Tired of it? Gera blatantly countered on Clidd, then called it "random" (sure. "random".) and has left it sitting there while shading me. But these two? I need more out of these two.

I'm not sure I've ever seen so much countervoting as I have so far this game.

I've got nothing new to bring to the table except that the case on ger is flimsy as hell

Can you atleast tell us why you're still voting Elsa? Popping in to shade a wagon and then saying you have nothing to add, while on a wagon you're not actively pushing says you're on a vanity wagon.

90 really only gained credibility over time.
And her read on clidd was premature.

Gotta add that her insistence on policy limming me with 2 days to go and 2 other SRs is very anti town.

[Eiralox]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

[Crescent]

Uh. 471 was Eiralox quoting something out of post #365.

Why are you just now taking offense to something that was originally said 106 posts ago?

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

I meant 470, and the rest @ Vivax, sorry.

[Eiralox]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

Ok u meant to quote #470........ eh fuck it i'm brainded.

[Eiralox]

I meant 470, and the rest @ Vivax, sorry.

yeah no problem it's my mistake for not fully reading, same with Crescent's post which sparked my msitaken #471

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

Ok u meant to quote #470........ eh fuck it i'm brainded.

Nah, I woke up like 15 minutes ago so the mistake was mine.

I don't know if Corwin is higher end. Most high tier scum players I have experienced are able to cover up their mistakes just by being spammy as f*ck and having an imposant personality, so they end up convincing others that whatever their mistake was wasn't a big deal, plus they control part of the thread narrative through their presence. Takes lots of motivation though, so often you spot such a personality being mafia because you fish out a weaker teammate (so the stronger player loses motivation).

Could Elsa be the stronger player and one or two teammates under pressure so she fell off? Might take a few cycles to find that out.

Post I meant to link above, which should have been obvious since I was replying directly to the "higher end" thing. This is dumb, and if the two players who have their noses up my ass this entire game are even remotely town they need to start sniffing somewhere else.

[Crescent]

There's just one thing that nags at me a little in 470, but it could be a difference in play. Town's best chance in this game is to figure out as much as possible before the all of like, 3-4 town people who are actually giving it serious effort are dead. Letting anyone "take a few cycles to figure out" has massive backfire potential.

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

[Corwinoid]

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

[Crescent]

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

This technically has nothing to do with my reads? I have town reads on Eiralox and Alex right now.

But I think if either are scum, this town is already dead. There's no way either of these two would get caught in a day 4/day 5 situation unless they made a massive gaffe.

[Vivax]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

[Crescent]

And the reason for that is town doesn't have enough committed players. Either one could lead whatever town is left alive at that point like the sheep they are.

[Crescent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

[Vivax]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

[Crescent]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

That would be the better question, yes. To come back after 6 years and roll scum would be rough regardless.

I know exactly what vibes I'm getting out of him right now though. I just want to see more.

[geraintm]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time ago, too. I'd like to hear a renewed argument from both Elsa and Gibus about why their votes are still there. Uno's spoken on it lately, Corwi countervoted because he got... Tired of it? Gera blatantly countered on Clidd, then called it "random" (sure. "random".) and has left it sitting there while shading me. But these two? I need more out of these two.

I'm not sure I've ever seen so much countervoting as I have so far this game.

I've had enough. Calling my random vote not random and using it as an excuse to scum read me is passing me off.
VOTE: Crescent

For someone so insistent everyone should go back and read every players previous games, to think I didn't random vote is mind boggling

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

I have not, and I did not this game. Three games would be pretty easy to check if you wanted.

[geraintm]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

This technically has nothing to do with my reads? I have town reads on Eiralox and Alex right now.

But I think if either are scum, this town is already dead. There's no way either of these two would get caught in a day 4/day 5 situation unless they made a massive gaffe.

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this. I've not played with you enough to know why you have this attitude, and it feels very different to the previous game I was with you.

[Crescent]

Oh I was waiting to see if Gera would go from countervoting Clidd to trying to preemptively vote me and there we go.

[Eiralox]

I've had enough. Calling my random vote not random and using it as an excuse to scum read me is passing me off.
VOTE: Crescent

For someone so insistent everyone should go back and read every players previous games, to think I didn't random vote is mind boggling

Fair point, I don't backread so I won't know either way. In my eyes your vote was still early enough for a random vote to be acceptable(it came just after Gibus's Alex-inspired cat vote, which got no flak).

I'm still happy with where my vote is now though.

[Crescent]

Still an 8 way vote split huh.

The top 3 trains though... Cannot say any of them are particularly bad. Got one probable scum, and two guys with lingering scum equity that could definitely still give us more than they have.

We now have THREE pairs of people countervoting though: Elsa/Gibus, Clidd/Gera, Uno/Corwi. Many of these votes came a long time

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

This technically has nothing to do with my reads? I have town reads on Eiralox and Alex right now.

But I think if either are scum, this town is already dead. There's no way either of these two would get caught in a day 4/day 5 situation unless they made a massive gaffe.

You know that they'll be night actions to rule out difficult to sort players right?
You seem to have this opinion that town can only ever win this game if you get everything right, and I can't work out why you are playing like this. I've not played with you enough to know why you have this attitude, and it feels very different to the previous game I was with you.

I had faith in the last town. I have no faith in this one.

But you havent actually been reading the game again.

[Crescent]

I've had enough. Calling my random vote not random and using it as an excuse to scum read me is passing me off.
VOTE: Crescent

For someone so insistent everyone should go back and read every players previous games, to think I didn't random vote is mind boggling

Fair point, I don't backread so I won't know either way. In my eyes your vote was still early enough for a random vote to be acceptable(it came just after Gibus's Alex-inspired cat vote, which got no flak).

I'm still happy with where my vote is now though.

Yes, because a direct counter vote is "random".