Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)

[Jacket]

Sure, if you're literally only looking at post numbers and not actual content it doesn't make sense. Absolutely baffling comment.

No. What's baffling is that you think Cat has been posting more mechanic based content than Enchant.

I never claimed they were posting more. I said they were too wrapped up in it. Enchant is working from town motivations in what they say, Cat's posts were filler.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So Enchant isn't 'wrapped up in it' despite posting about it in almost every single post?

[Bellaphant]

@jacket, nathaan was only linking the three because I'd said they were linked in my mind. He's right, though, when I read back.

You are wrong about cat as well I think. Cat made the most sense the most quickly, I said it and bbt. Yeah,, cat doesn't have a huge amount of other content but it was the best in terms of actually explaining.

P-edit bbt making sense.

[Jacket]

VOTE: BBT

Okay, now you're willfully trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. It's really not hard to comprehend the difference.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: cat.jpeg

You seem a little too wrapped up in the mechanics discussion.

I mean, you can read your vote for yourself. It's right here.

Tell me that's not what you said.

[Jacket]

Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Can't the PRs prove themselves on later days, though? I don't see why they need to out now.

Vengeful proves self by being elimmed and ability to shot. You probably don't want to elim them to prove power, as they are not Cult Leaders.
Governor overrules day 4 and chooses elim. Well, we will know that obviously, but see next letters.

Both remain in power after conversation. Therefore having converted vengeful is not cool, as they turn in mine. It's easier to confirm them now and then don't touch them for game end. Converted Governor plainly gurantee that CL doesh't get killed, more over someone cult desire will elimmed instead.

These posts are someone who is laying out a strategy they believe is the most pro-town and trying to be helpful with it. I doubt they bring it up as cult but they would see it as actively hurting their own interests.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Except for someone else who plays cult a lot apparently believes they shouldn't claim. So are you saying one of them has to be scum for having opposing theories?

Again though, this doesn't relate whatsoever to what your vote post *actually* says

[Jacket]

Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

If both PRs claim then Cult Leader would want to convert them for the ability. But then we would be wary of the PRs and would want to elim them, which if they are town they will get to use their power so maybe it's not that bad. If they aren't town that sucks. Seeing as to progress we need to elim a Cultist though it might be a medium idea. I think D4 governor should reveal, not sure about the others.

Question: It says vengeful townies only have their ability when elimminated. What if one vengeful townie is eliminated and chooses to kill the other vengeful townie? will the second one get a kill as well?

Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?

If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?

Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?

If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?

Bad scenario: 3 people claim, we elim a vengeful townie, they kill the other vengeful townie and we are left with 9 ppl 3 original cultists and know who one of the cultists are (I would say we don't elim them immediately but figure out if they are prime or leader by elimming someone else first), we would know the D4 Gov was still town

Other bad scenario: 3 people claim, we elim a vengeful townie, they kill a prime cultist, 9 people, one person confirmed not leader

Maybe, because I feel like it would probably be a prime cultist lying we could hold off on figuring out who was lying or not till we had too. However then one of the two vengeful townies might be a cultist by then and not cooperate.

These are empty posts. They talk a lot about hypothetical scenarios but say maybe this is good, maybe this is bad, and lands on things like "medium idea". It's not advancing anything useful.

[Nathann]

Opinion that nobody asked for: I agree that Enchant's posting seems to be clearly from a Town perspective, while Cat.Jpeg's posts are more nullish. Not sure if I would call them Scummy, but they're definitely not moving anything forward. BBT's interpretations feel to be bad faith.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So could be town working through hypothetical scenarios, no?

What is the scum motivation behind those posts considering, as you say, they offer nothing?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Opinion that nobody asked for: I agree that Enchant's posting seems to be clearly from a Town perspective, while Cat.Jpeg's posts are more nullish. Not sure if I would call them Scummy, but they're definitely not moving anything forward. BBT's interpretations feel to be bad faith.

I haven't said anything about Enchant regarding a read.

What about my interpretations are bad faith? And if you believe this, you should probably vote me

[Jacket]

Except for someone else who plays cult a lot apparently believes they shouldn't claim. So are you saying one of them has to be scum for having opposing theories?

Again though, this doesn't relate whatsoever to what your vote post *actually* says

What are you even talking about? That's blatant bullshit.

Are you trying to claim two people disagreeing about the best approach to playing the setup makes them differing alignments? That's nonsensical, people can have different thoughts about how to play the game.

That of course isn't taking into account my read on korina, which is that they're probably trolling to get themselves eliminated, either as venge or as prime cultist. And it's

completely irrelevant

to my read on Enchant or Cat.Jpeg.


No, my vote post is pretty simple, you're just trying to twist it in the most obvious misrep possible.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm saying you seem to think Enchant is town because she is 'game solving'.

I'm saying someone has suggested a completely opposite theory (meaning that Enchant's proposed theory *could* be scum motivated) but you haven't considered this apparently.

Explain the Korina read?

I thought your vote was pretty simple, too. It said you voted for someone who was wrapped up in game mechanics. But it turns out it wasn't for that but because their game theory posts are null? Which are two different reasons and so now I'm confused.

[Nathann]

Opinion that nobody asked for: I agree that Enchant's posting seems to be clearly from a Town perspective, while Cat.Jpeg's posts are more nullish. Not sure if I would call them Scummy, but they're definitely not moving anything forward. BBT's interpretations feel to be bad faith.

I haven't said anything about Enchant regarding a read.

What about my interpretations are bad faith? And if you believe this, you should probably vote me

I know, I wanted to point out how much my thoughts align with Jacket's there.

148 feels bad faith since it seems clear to me Jacket's vote was about the quality of the discussion, not the quantity. 151 is trying to make Jacket seem like Scum by a very dumb "gotcha" as opposed to actually trying to understand what he's saying in 150. 156 is trying to force out a contradiction that doesn't actually mean anything for Jacket's alignment. And 159 feels like bad faith questioning because asking what's the "Scum motivation for posting bad posts" is a bad question. Obviously Scum wouldn't post bad posts if they thought it would get them caught. Scum posts bad posts if they're careless or don't know better. It's a loaded question.

I want to keep voting RH9 because he still feels a bit too scared to me, which I expect from a Cult Leader. I'll see how I feel later.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

148 feels bad faith since it seems clear to me Jacket's vote was about the quality of the discussion, not the quantity. 151 is trying to make Jacket seem like Scum by a very dumb "gotcha" as opposed to actually trying to understand what he's saying in 150. 156 is trying to force out a contradiction that doesn't actually mean anything for Jacket's alignment. And 159 feels like bad faith questioning because asking what's the "Scum motivation for posting bad posts" is a bad question. Obviously Scum wouldn't post bad posts if they thought it would get them caught. Scum posts bad posts if they're careless or don't know better. It's a loaded question.

Jacket's vote was in no way clear about the intent of his vote being the quality of discussion. That's complete bullshit.

151 is flat out facts. Like, it's just facts.

Moving goalposts for reasoning on a vote isn't alignment indicative for you? Alright, noted.

Scum want to influence the game, no? So by arriving at a nothing conclusion it doesn't appear to do anything to forward a scum win-con. Whereas town are much more likely to spew random thoughts that don't really lead anywhere. Especially if not familiar with the set-up (which I don't know if Cat is but he doesn't seem to be?)

[RH9]

By the way,
UNVOTE: Jacket
His posts seem to come from a Town mindset.

What have I actually done?

Your tone and content in your first four posts made me think that you were Town.
I think that your questioning in this post feels also quite like you are Town because scum would be more happier about getting TRed.

[RH9]

By the way, BBT, Cat.Jpeg prefers she/they.

[Nathann]

151 is flat out facts. Like, it's just facts.

Okay. That doesn't change the fact that it's presenting the "facts" in bad faith. If you want to be literal, then yes, both Enchant and Cat.Jpeg talked a lot about the setup. No shit, good job there. But I think it's pretty clearly implied that, if you're voting someone for being wrapped up in it, you're voting them because they're doing it in a scummy way. Enchant was driving the game forward, Cat.Jpeg wasn't. You're removing the nuance and trying to paint Jacket Scummy for it.

Moving goalposts for reasoning on a vote isn't alignment indicative for you? Alright, noted.

What are you even referring to here?

Scum want to influence the game, no? So by arriving at a nothing conclusion it doesn't appear to do anything to forward a scum win-con.

This assumes that Scum is always perfect and makes every post with the intent of pushing some grand agenda. Surely I don't have to respond why that doesn't happen in practice, especially with newer players (who Cat.Jpeg seems to be). Not knowing what to do as Scum and just posting posts without content is something never Scum does very often.

This is, what, saying that you've never seen Scum attempt to actively lurk by putting out posts that seem like content but don't actually go anywhere? That is the entirety of my Scumread on RH9, how come you didn't attack me over it?

[furtiveglance]

I think the Jacket/BBT beef, however entertaining, has already gone beyond being useful to the game. I've seen town/town like this, but I've also seen scum really dig in and argue about pointless stuff as well. So however unhelpful, all I can do is rule out scum/scum here.

In other news, Korina self-voting definitely dampens my enthusiasm about voting them. Is it town? I don't know. I don't think it's Cult Leader (or what I'd imagine CL to do).

Enchant has been widely townread - my take on that is that I can never read Enchant. I am happy to defer to the consensus on that one for the time being and focus my attention elsewhere.

I like Nathann. They seem quite investigatory so far, which is good.

Bellaphant voting for Cat is an interesting one, no one else has joined. Bellaphant has just made some bland statements so far, and I'm not sure what Cat has done yet.

RH9 seems a little stilted. Maybe that's just tone.

*End transmission*

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: RH9

This is the motherload. The Cult Leader!

[RH9]

This is, what, saying that you've never seen Scum attempt to actively lurk by putting out posts that seem like content but don't actually go anywhere? That is the entirety of my Scumread on RH9, how come you didn't attack me over it?

Good catch.
Do you think that BBT should be Venged?

[Titus]

I don't have a read on him.

Defending people without a read on them is annoying.

[Bellaphant]

Bbt, I tried this tack of discussion with enchant and didn't get massively far either. I found them vaguely scummy for it this morning but think I was possibly just getting frustrated.

P-edit I'm not voting for cat, furtives, I said she seemed town! Nathaan is...fine and I can see their scum read on rh9. I can't work out what to think about korina but think naarhan might be right in that too, which is why this bbt thing is so odd to me.

Also, this stood out - where did you get the idea that Enchant was widely town read?

[Enchant]

I actually considered this long enough for me, but i think it's time to put it simple.


I am Governor. Idk if i join ZumBalo fanatics afterwards, nor do i care. My power not so useful in perspective for cult, nor town, my persuative skills are pretty bad as well so i really can't help as convert, i think i live with simple confirmation that i am not CL. I will certanly need it late game, due my big miselim rate.


You can throw potatos now.

[Enchant]

And yes, i EXPECT Vengefuls to claim as well today.