Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, I'm having trouble following you.

Is this a fair characterization of your behaviour:
- You voted Kenny because he "didn't say anything of substance despite saying many things." 168
- You unvote once Kenny admit's that he wasn't saying anything of substance and was just making random comments about the game (207), this was enough to put your mind at ease and unvote him.

If I am incorrectly interpreting your posts, please treat me like I'm stupid and explain your thought process clearly.

@Kennyk, I'd still like you to follow up on post 190 please.

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, also is it fair to say that you still "don't particularly have any reads." as of 161.

[FancyPants]

161
Correct link, I messed up something with the link above.

[kennyk]

Spoiler:

Just to add too this all his posts reek of appeasement and trying not to offend anyone. His first post had a bit of this and his latest is worse.

Yes, I do try not to offend anyone. If that's your tactic to get information out of people this early in the game, that's fine for you. But that's not how I play.

If you want to see me hanging, because I don't have an elaborated read about everyone, so be it. I posted what I think about the players that did something relevant in my eyes. It is by far not enough to get a read on them. But I am generally not the kind of person who gets to reads fast.

I can definitely not see how my very first post in this thread should reek of appeasement. To me this reeks of someone desperately trying to build a case on someone.

But as you do want me to step on someones toes so much, I will do you the favour:
VOTE: FancyPants

You don't have to offend people, you just have to have an opinion.

In this post 21, you point out that Eiralox's behavior is erratic, I know this was done in a jokey way but you don't specify if that erratic behaviour is scummy or townie, you just bring it up with a smiley face. You're pointing to a behaviour but don't commit as to what it could mean.

Then in this post 148 you bring up a few things, I'll quote you so you aren't taken out of context:

So here are my thoughts about the game so far.

There is Eiralox who voted and changed votes twice very early in the game.

I made a (in my eyes) fun comment about this. I know it is RVS, so those vote changes are very likely a thing of trying to beating around the bush in hope of someone reacting to being voted.

FancyPants tries to push me for this comment. This feels wierd. But maybe it is because they are torn pants (thanks Irrelephant for that pun).

The most fascinating thing about Irrelephant is, that Shoshin is probably town. Not that I think Shoshin is scum, but I don't see how he should have gained the towncred.

ConfidentlyWrongs selfvote in the early RVS is NAI for me. As mentioned by someone else earlier (too lazy to look it up again) this seems to be a humoristic approach (haha).

BlueBloodedToffee pushing CW for the selfvote and then, when the waggon didn't get on track too well, hopping on the CSF waggon seems fishy.

I don't see why CSF deserves the waggon that's now going on.

Everyone else is just a blank card for me right now.

From my perspective here's what you brought up in this post:
- That Eira voted a few times again (I don't understand your explanation for it).
- That my push on you is weird (you don't explain why it's weird, you do however only soft commit to the comment)
- You think Irrelephant's town read of shosin is fascinating (you don't say why or whether this is alignment indicative of anything).
- You think CW's self vote is NAI, you aren't sure who brought this up (For reference - I did, the person you're voting for).
- You throw some sus on to BBT for switching wagons from CW to CSF (This whole idea was Cat Scratch Fever's originally, importantly you don't actually vote BBT here).

So essentially you're simply stating things that have happened in game, or just recycling ideas other people have come up with without taking any strong stances.

- Scum are more afraid to offend people or take strong stances.
- Scum struggle to manufacture opinions or reads because they know they are BS.

Hence you are scum.

Since you're voting me, can you try and explain why you think I'm scum? Also why didn't you vote BBT since you thought his wagon switch was "fishy"? Can you explain why my push on you was "weird" in your eyes?

I am trying again to explain, why FancyPants push on me feels wierd (especially the early phase of it):

The game starts and Eira votes three times in the same amount of hours. It is RVS and so this might be Eiras way of trying to see how people react to votes on them or just to get things going. It is NAI in my eyes, as this could either be scum or town. My (more or less funny) comment was just a thing I had to do. If I see a fun thing to post, I need to post it. Yes, it had some substance to it, as it pointed at Eira voting thrice in three hours. But if it wasn't for the "beings of fate whispered" thing in Eiras post and the (bad) pun I could make of it, I wouldn't have posted it at all.

Then you voted me without explanation, which was fine at the time (still RVS). You later claim to have voted me because of thet post, but still give no further explanation. This was wierd in my eyes, as I haven't done anything in that post to deserve a vote. If you had said you voted me because of said post and because of the lack of a stance concerning Eira, I would have at least understood, why that post made you vote me. I wouldn't have agreed, but at least understood you.

You also stated, that my first post had an air of appeasement. I absolutely don't see what you mean by that. In my first post I had nostalgic feelings because of the game flavour and did a random vote on Mala with a bit of flavour in it. This all looked so much like an effort to make a case out of thin air, that I think is more scum than town. That's why I voted you.

Yes, I didn't vote BBT. It is because he isn't over my personal line of scumminess (yet).

Postpreview edit: I started to write this post a few hours ago but real life got its own ideas. That's why I am answering now and didn't do it earlier.

[FancyPants]

I said your first post had a bit of appeasement referring to 21, and that your latest was the worst referring to 148, if my exact timeline was wrong I'm sorry for that.

@KennyK, so why am I scum then? (that's where your vote is)

[FancyPants]

OK I see you say I made a "case" out of thin air.

There have been multiple occasions this game where people have wagoned others for little to no reason (The cat scratch wagon, the malcom wagon for example) why was my push on you more scummy than those pushes?

[FancyPants]

Random question to some of the more experienced members in the game, I've never played in a game with Mafia day talk, how does this usually affect games if at all?
My current worry is that newb scum could be "coached" out of bad spots, is that common, or am I paranoid?

[FancyPants]

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

[Loftwing]

@Loftwing, I'm having trouble following you.

Is this a fair characterization of your behaviour:
- You voted Kenny because he "didn't say anything of substance despite saying many things." 168
- You unvote once Kenny admit's that he wasn't saying anything of substance and was just making random comments about the game (207), this was enough to put your mind at ease and unvote him.

If I am incorrectly interpreting your posts, please treat me like I'm stupid and explain your thought process clearly.

@Kennyk, I'd still like you to follow up on post 190 please.

My Quarrel was that they were trying to decieve us into believing that they had something to say regarding their reads, when it was apparent they didn't. While I still may have my suspicions of Kenny, I feel like they are at a similar baseline that everyone else is at. They don't appear to have a bias or an agenda that they are attempting to push.

[Loftwing]

Loftwing what do you think about Confidently Wrong?

Currently they have little credibility in my eyes, and I don't trust a word that comes from their fingers. I would be willing to throw a vote down on them should the current wagons cease to prevail.

[Loftwing]

Random question to some of the more experienced members in the game, I've never played in a game with Mafia day talk, how does this usually affect games if at all?
My current worry is that newb scum could be "coached" out of bad spots, is that common, or am I paranoid?

In my experience, 0% of newb scum are coached. I don't know why, but I've never personally witnessed it.

[Loftwing]

161
Correct link, I messed up something with the link above.

I've remained unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, I don't have any particularly strong reads on anyone, and I'd have to re-read the game again for analysis.

[Loftwing]

Sorry if I feel a little aloof here, I am very much tired and work has not been optimal.

[FancyPants]

My Quarrel was that they were trying to decieve us into believing that they had something to say regarding their reads, when it was apparent they didn't. While I still may have my suspicions of Kenny, I feel like they are at a similar baseline that everyone else is at. They don't appear to have a bias or an agenda that they are attempting to push.

I mean as townies we should all have an agenda, to find scum.

For the record when I have time I'm going to go through some of your games to see if this absolute pussyfooting behaviour is normal for town Loftwing.

[kennyk]

Random question to some of the more experienced members in the game, I've never played in a game with Mafia day talk, how does this usually affect games if at all?
My current worry is that newb scum could be "coached" out of bad spots, is that common, or am I paranoid?

I haven't had that much experience with this either (one scum game with daytalk and one as part of a masonry, which could be seen similar). I would say the answer is "it depends".
In the masonry I played, we did a lot of daytalk about different things. But mostly it was about steup and scum speculation. Neither of us was in a bad spot though.

The scum game I did, mostly had daytalk about how to exploit the setup (we were informed about the roles as part of the setup). There was no talk about "how to get out of a situation". but I would guess, that that is a possibility for scum to do, too.

Scum daytalk enables them to coordinate their attacks, so they could either form a front against one player or each vote on a different player. They could even try and set up some form of gambit in which they sacrifice one of them in return for towncred for another scummy. In general, with daytalk all the scum tactics could be done more effectively (if done right).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

Kenny is scum.

This is also extremely rude. If there is any town block, I'll be in it and that's the end of that.

[kennyk]

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

Kenny is scum.

This is also extremely rude. If there is any town block, I'll be in it and that's the end of that.

Like to elaborate why you are so sure, that I am scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

Your posts don't look like town posts to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright Kenny, you convinced me.

VOTE: Lowell

[Irrelephant11]

161
Correct link, I messed up something with the link above.

I've remained unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, I don't have any particularly strong reads on anyone, and I'd have to re-read the game again for analysis.

Wild that you can read this very thread and walk away without reads

[Irrelephant11]

You don't have to be like "this person is DEFINITELY SCUM" to have helpful reads. You can just compare, say, kenny and fancypants, who are voting each other, and pick a side. Voila, you've got a townread. You can figure out who's done the least that's towny to you. Voila, you've got a scumread. Nothing so far??

Can't decide if town being stubborn or scum trying to seem towny by audacity

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not even sure it's that you're playing "weirdly" though, it's just that you're incredibly willing to hand out a free townread early on without much of a reason for doing so. I understand meta will often come into games and that's fine, but your posts could easily read as an opportunistic attempt to cosy up to Shoshin and get on her side early on if she's town and you're not.

I will probably explain better at a later date.

Your townblock, for what it's worth, gives me a similar fear...we're not that long into the game, I'm wary to put too much faith and trust in anyone at this stage.

This is fair. Does it make you think I'm scum trying to prop up a partner? Or just town who's likely to be wrong? Because, if the latter, it's only dangerous if you think one of my three townreads is scum. Let me know if you think so at any point.
Realistically I don't think we'll manage a consensus 5-6 person townblock with 0 scum. But I do think we can make one with, at most, 1 scum. And that's a pretty valuable potential town tool.

Like I get your paranoia but do you disagree with the concept of a townblock or just that i've picked three names already?

[Lowell]

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm caught up. Kenny, Cats, malcolm fine for lynch. fancy begrudgingly town, mala town, irrelephant town, toffee town I guess.

Do you, uh, have any actual reasons for your thoughts?

[Irrelephant11]

kenny reminds me of every day 1 scumflip I've ever participated in, and I think a *lot* has to change from that slot for me to *not* vote there by the end of the game day.

On the other hand, I don't really expect much to change from kenny, and there's always a chance he's town (and there's 2 more scum to find) so I'd rather pressure other slots for a bit