Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)

[furtiveglance]

Hello everyone. I see that people are townreading Enchant and voting Jacket. I was actually the first to townread Enchant. I know I just got here but I thought "Enchant is town". In the Open Queue. When I saw them sign up. As for voting Jacket, they're probably not Cult Leader, and we win by voting CL. So I encourage everyone to do what is literally the best strategy and sheep me on someone random, that no one else has voted for yet.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Korina

GG.

[furtiveglance]

You got put at E-2 on page 1.

[furtiveglance]

I probably will make outrageous claim, but i won't hammer before vengefuls claim.

There's literally no reason for them to NOT. Otherwise i challenge you to internet boxing fight right now.

Enchant, my former scumbuddy. When should Vengefuls massclaim? do you mean 3 IRL days or game days, and before which deadline? I'm ready to go, just give me the sign.

[furtiveglance]

You got put at E-2 on page 1.

Y-3*.

Is this supposed to be a serious read?

Which answer will you townread me for?

[furtiveglance]

Ok. The short answer is yes it was a serious read, which makes more sense if you imagine it was a 9 player game (which I did). The other stuff (including random voting Korina) was just put in there to entertain the people, which is always a secondary objective for me.

[furtiveglance]

The short answer is yes it was a serious read, which makes more sense if you imagine it was a 9 player game (which I did).

Okay. Walk me through your thoughts on why three people voting Jacket on page 1 makes him likely not Cult Leader. (I know the answer might seem obvious, but bear with me.)

I don't think Cultists would vote their Leader in RVS. So either 3 town happened to land on CL on page 1, or they aren't Cult Leader. It seems unlikely that the first scenario happened, but I suppose it is possible.

Now - I have a question for you.

What is more suspicious:
a) Beat putting Jacket on E-3 in 23
b) BBT putting Korina on E-3 in 43
c) None of the above, you're a cultist trying to distract me from......what were we talking about again?

[furtiveglance]

You got put at E-2 on page 1.

? Didn't/ don't they have the same votes on them as korina does?

I don't understand anything so far.

I asked the same question but about korina - or had you counted to 11 by then?

I'm not going back and checking at which point I had counted to 11. Thanks anyway.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think Cultists would vote their Leader in RVS. So either 3 town happened to land on CL on page 1, or they aren't Cult Leader. It seems unlikely that the first scenario happened, but I suppose it is possible.

I don't think you're looking at this the right way, exactly - if it's three Townies, they just voted a person without knowing if they're Cult Leader or not. Do you think it's unlikely the three people that voted are all Town? (And this is ignoring the fact distancing would be extremely important in this setup, but y'know.)

Now - I have a question for you.

What is more suspicious:
a) Beat putting Jacket on E-3 in 23
b) BBT putting Korina on E-3 in 43
c) None of the above, you're a cultist trying to distract me from......what were we talking about again?

Both seem equally null to me. If i

had

to pick a more suspicious post of the two, I'd go with BBT's, since they didn't offer any other thoughts, and Beat's comment along the vote is somewhat Townie.

Anything you're seeing in the Y-3 posts?

I can tell you're very intelligent already - by the way you found a small difference to be alignment indicative - so I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion, and townread you forever.

[furtiveglance]

Maybe a big brain cultist like you. I'm new to this cult thing.

[furtiveglance]

Ok. The short answer is yes it was a serious read, which makes more sense if you imagine it was a 9 player game (which I did). The other stuff (including random voting Korina) was just put in there to entertain the people, which is always a secondary objective for me.

putting “gg” at the end of it implies you know exactly what the policy elim meme is on me, and makes it less random. stop bullshitting about random.

I didn't know there was a policy elim meme. I just chose someone no one had voted for yet. I don't agree with policy votes.

[furtiveglance]

64 was a bit tongue-in-cheek Nathann. My opinion is that there's not a lot to read into, although you could be right that silent voting is less towny. It's not something I'd make a read about. I do townread you by the way, that was serious (although I might not townread you forever).

[furtiveglance]

I think the Jacket/BBT beef, however entertaining, has already gone beyond being useful to the game. I've seen town/town like this, but I've also seen scum really dig in and argue about pointless stuff as well. So however unhelpful, all I can do is rule out scum/scum here.

In other news, Korina self-voting definitely dampens my enthusiasm about voting them. Is it town? I don't know. I don't think it's Cult Leader (or what I'd imagine CL to do).

Enchant has been widely townread - my take on that is that I can never read Enchant. I am happy to defer to the consensus on that one for the time being and focus my attention elsewhere.

I like Nathann. They seem quite investigatory so far, which is good.

Bellaphant voting for Cat is an interesting one, no one else has joined. Bellaphant has just made some bland statements so far, and I'm not sure what Cat has done yet.

RH9 seems a little stilted. Maybe that's just tone.

*End transmission*

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: RH9

This is the motherload. The Cult Leader!

[furtiveglance]

I feel like this setup is designed to be quite information heavy as the days go on. So I don't mind an early Governor claim. People will now be saying "should Vengefuls claim?". I don't think that's the best play. Reason number 1) We'll probably get more than 2 claims, and then it's "should we vote inside these today?" and that kinda derails the game in cult's favour. Reason number 2) In this setup, Vengeful townies are surely an asset IF they get voted. So I don't think it's that smart to never vote Vengeful claims. With voting, the informed minority can influence the kill - whereas a Vengekill is just one person's decision (which might be more accurate).

[furtiveglance]

I cc severely lacking.

[furtiveglance]

@furtive, did you miss this? -
Also, this stood out - where did you get the idea that Enchant was widely town read?

@beat, can you explain your reads a bit?

@nathann, sorry! It's not personal

Yeah I thought I remembered you voting for Cat.Jpeg, turns out you did in first post but not after. My bad.

[furtiveglance]

I think BBT is town lightly but I don't think their argument is correct. It just feels like they misinterpreted the situation.
I don't think the push was from a scum intention.

I did have some stuff to say about Enchant but its a moot point now anyway.

Way too early solve: CL is in Titus, Bellaphant, furtiveglance

Cult sounds exciting but unfortunately I'm not in one.

[furtiveglance]

Getting away from mech talk for a second, I was thinking about Jacket/BBT beef a bit more and I think there's scum in there, I've been seeing a massive bus a bit. Anyone else?

[furtiveglance]

Ryan Gosling looks so trustworthy and handsome.....

[furtiveglance]

I think Beat pairs with RH9, they've scumread first me, then Bellaphant who mentioned finding RH9 sus.

[furtiveglance]

I think Beat pairs with RH9, they've scumread first me, then Bellaphant who mentioned finding RH9 sus.

This is a bad take.

Is it? Should I stop saying this? Do you not want people to think this?

[furtiveglance]

It feels like a poorly thought out point that's mostly filler.

It feels to me like the kind of post scum would make to try and look like they are solving/ throwing shade.

I would say that I agree somewhat in that it seems to me that furtive is trying to appear like he's solving.

You agree with Beat, interesting. And if they started.....a cult, let's say. Would you be in?

[furtiveglance]

Interesting....hmmmmmmm

:extremely pensive:

[furtiveglance]

I don't think Korina, Bella, or Enchant are CL.

I agree on Korina.
If they were CL, they wouldn't probably be doing everything that they have been doing.
I agree on Enchant too.
They've been coming up with so much plans that it feels like a CL wouldn't be doing.

Enchant claimed Governor, You don't get points for townreading PR claims.

[furtiveglance]

Besides, we established earlier that I was the first person to EVER townread Enchant. So I should really get all the points, if we're doing points. (Are we doing points?)

[furtiveglance]

Here's a thought: What if CL decided to claim vengeful.

This is partly because I'm not over my RH9 sus.

[furtiveglance]

Let battle...commence!

[furtiveglance]

I reckon RH9 is Cult not Nathan, I like Nathan.

[furtiveglance]

Even Jacket is more likely than Nathan.

[furtiveglance]

When did he soft?

[furtiveglance]

Ok I do see that, especially the last one.

[furtiveglance]

In fact, is it +ev to elim RH9 and shoot within the less actives?

Also, if we shoot a cultist, do they still get to recruit from a Venge shot?

This sounds a bit risky.

[furtiveglance]

Nathann can you point to any softs of your own? Same question to Jacket.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think there's a point in eliminating RH9 and having him shoot within the inactives, when we can just eliminate within the inactives.

Exactly. See, this guy is great!

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: BBT

I kind of like his recent surge in posting. Also kind of unnerved by furtiveglance's white knighting of me, but meh.

For the record, I wouldn't cry about being eliminated today. Getting to use my Venge shot sounds fun.

Do you think I'm sus? or just unnerving?

[furtiveglance]

Furtive, this is your friendly reminder that Nathan is very likely cultist.

Why not Jacket? Who cares who claims first?

[furtiveglance]

Game feels like it's stuck going nowhere, I've been waiting for something to happen but no one is actually doing anything. People are afraid to start any wagons.


Whatever. I claim vengeful.

Tell me this comes from scum frustrated with current game state.

Tone isn't impossible to fake.

[furtiveglance]

I can see now RH is probably real Vengeful. So if we get Jacket/Nathann out today, they can shoot the other if wrong and we at least get a confirmed Cultist out (hopefully the sus Leader!)

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Jacket

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: Jacket

VOTE: Nathann

I just want to vote someone at this point, looks like Nathan has more traction.

[furtiveglance]

Outside of vengeful claims I think Korina/Beat look Prime and Bella/Cat/Titus for Leader.

[furtiveglance]

I'm sorry I've fallen behind. I had a major setback with my PTSD. I'll post content tmo or late tonight.

If we have two claimed vengefuls, then we have two conftown to get reads around to see who pushed them. If we have more than two, the vengefuls are a great place to eliminate. If we guess wrong, the vengeful can shoot another claim and we use them to sort scum.

You know that it's unlikely that Cult Leader are among vengeful claimers right?

I agree with you, althought the CL fakeclaim gambit has crossed my mind. But think of it like this. Assuming there's a Prime Cultist in the three claims, voting in there today gives us (probably) 1 or 2 conf not CL at the end of today, and associatives from the Prime Cultist we discover. So it's like a lead on the CL either way.

[furtiveglance]

That Bellaphant E-2 from Korina stands out to me as a culty move. I get the feeling Bella isn't CL based on the way some culty people are happy with this vote. I'm now convinced RH9 is a real vengeful, and agree that Cat.Jpeg is a better elimination.

UNVOTE: Nathann

VOTE: Cat.Jpeg

Let's do this!

[furtiveglance]

E-3 I mean*.

[furtiveglance]

I'm down to elim Cat

Then let's do it. I'd like to win day 1. As for Nathann/Jacket, I think Nathann offering to be your doublevoter is actually town.

[furtiveglance]

hm

Yes guvna?

[furtiveglance]

That Bella and Cat tied with 4?

I think RH9 voted Cat at some point, did they then unvote?

[furtiveglance]

So we either 1) vote CL and win, 2) vote PC and someone gets converted, or 3) vote town and nothing happens.

[furtiveglance]

Quite exciting.

[furtiveglance]

I just locked the thread. You're all trapped inside!

[furtiveglance]

Townread me uwu? I just voted town so that was towny of me.

[furtiveglance]

Disregard above post. I'm in a weird mood right now, standing by.....

[furtiveglance]

If we continue to vote outside of vengeful claims, it's all or nothing. We either eliminate the CL and win one day or we're gonna get town flips with no information. I want to know which one of Jacket/Nathann is cult.

VOTE: Jacket

[furtiveglance]

Does anyone have any experience with furtives? I go from thinking they are town to scum about every three posts they make.

Now that you mention it, yeah. The guy is sus. Now I'm gonna push furtive and when he flips town, I'll take the fall instead of you.

Nice try.

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys, BBT and RH9 are both town, add that to Enchant and that's 3. 1 in Jacket/Nathann (prob Jacket), Korina Prime Cultist is my strongest read outside of that and I can kind of see Beat as CL.

[furtiveglance]

Rh9, any reads?

Similar to my D1 reads in 279 but move furtive up because he seems to be more actively solving and inline with what I expect of town!him now.
And move BBT up for constant effort.
Otherwise, not much change but move Titus to the same level and Nathann.

Thanks for your kind words. I'm sorry I called you Cult earlier, hopefully you can forgive me.

[furtiveglance]

Hey guys, BBT and RH9 are both town, add that to Enchant and that's 3. 1 in Jacket/Nathann (prob Jacket), Korina Prime Cultist is my strongest read outside of that and I can kind of see Beat as CL.

This is about how I see the game right now. Which, surely it's not Scum!furtiveglance copying my reads in order to pocket me, when half the game thinks I'm a Cultist within the CC's, right? Right.

That would be so weird of me.

[furtiveglance]

Why are we all panicking about the game ending d3, when we can just vote cult today?

I think we should sort Jacket/Nathann.

[furtiveglance]

Titus has pretty much done nothing this entire game by the way.

We should probably do something about that.

*something* like

*voting*

.......?

[furtiveglance]

I haven't seen a cultist flip yet...I really want one, I don't care if it's leader!

Anyone agree and want to vote Jacket with me? Nathann? I know you think they're prime but STILL.......

[furtiveglance]

I haven't seen a cultist flip yet...I really want one, I don't care if it's leader!

Anyone agree and want to vote Jacket with me? Nathann? I know you think they're prime but STILL.......

I am voting anyone before Jacket. You do understand why killing a Prime is going directly against Town wincon, right?

They might be LEADER!

[furtiveglance]

Ok you're just openly scumclaiming now, that's cool. I think we can kill titus today and furtive tomorrow tbh

I'm from the future, is tbh considered a scumtell yet here?

[furtiveglance]

Why did vote-in-the-claims gang dissipate? Ppl voting outside the claims are living in dreamland, we have such a low chance of voting CL, especially since we know that one confirmed cultist (prob Prime but could be leader!) is in 3 people, the other 2 of which are town with KP (who could smoke the leader even if we vote wrong). What am I missing?

[furtiveglance]

Why do I hear boss music?

I get the feeling if Titus isn't CL, we're gonna lose because everyone is about to jump me tomorrow.

[furtiveglance]

Of the people who are currently engraving my name into tomorrow's final votecount, Korina is the most cult and has been pillow pushing me for a while. Bellaphant and Nathann are also looking opportunistic. RH9 just looks really agreeable, and I'm sure he's town.

[furtiveglance]

Why are we speedrunning a loss

[furtiveglance]

1/5 chance now.

I'm literally baffled as to why people think I'm cult, aside from disagreeing on mechanics. I've tried to be active and give insight. I feel like the scapegoat for 1) desperate cultists and 2) towns not bothered enough to try.

[furtiveglance]

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Jacket is cult leader. I've voted them repeatedly, no one is joining me. People keep going "why would CL fakeclaim?" and I can tell you why, it's so they get written off as prime and never voted. I know people will ignore me on this, this is mainly just for my sanity and bragging rights post game.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Jacket

Once again no one will vote with me.

[furtiveglance]

Early votes on Jacket day 1 quickly dissipated, since then I've been his only voter, people either dismiss Jacket as prime or just refuse to talk about him.

[furtiveglance]

Not especially, but that's besides the point.

[furtiveglance]

People are thinking about this game in the wrong way. CL is'n't necessarily someone widely townread, just someone who will never get voted because cultists refuse to vote for them.

[furtiveglance]

So who are the cultists then

If you're not cult, I think BBT pairs with Jacket, so too does Bellaphant. They're the ones I remember insisting a venge claim must be prime and not get voted.

[furtiveglance]

People are thinking about this game in the wrong way. CL is'n't necessarily someone widely townread, just someone who will never get voted because cultists refuse to vote for them.

Do you think Bella is part of the cult?

Yes, they go with Jacket and Korina. I don't think they go with BBT though.

[furtiveglance]

People are thinking about this game in the wrong way. CL is'n't necessarily someone widely townread, just someone who will never get voted because cultists refuse to vote for them.

I missed this earlier but wasn't Jacket widely TRed before?

Yes, but *now* most people seem to agree that he's a cultist, yet won't vote him.

[furtiveglance]

I don't know. All I know is Jacket is never getting voted.

[furtiveglance]

Why do you want to elim a Cultist? You understand town lose if we do that?

I'm saying Jacket is Leader. I've been saying that for a while.

[furtiveglance]

I think it's 2 of Bellaphant/BBT/Korina.

[furtiveglance]

This feels like a bastard game, with me as the only town. Why am I in everyone's solve?

[furtiveglance]

I already explained why Jacket is Leader.

[furtiveglance]

If not Jacket, then I'm just lost.

[furtiveglance]

1) Jacket/Nathann/RH9 claim Vengeful Townie. There are 2 in the setup. One of these 3 players is Cult.

2) I notice RH9 softing Vengeful multiple times and strongly townread Nathann from early game. I deduce that Jacket is Cult.

3) I (Town) vote Jacket (Cult), several times. If Jacket was Prime, Cult would vote with me. It helps their win condition as they can then convert town.

4) No one votes with me. Ever. Only Nathann and RH9 even listen to my thoughts. They are both town in my mind. Several shady characters - you, Bellaphant, Korina - all dissuade me from voting Jacket for various reasons, or just ignore my vote completely.

5) I deduce that Jacket is Cult Leader, as Cult are reluctant to vote them.

[furtiveglance]

I noticed it via you. That's just semantics, stop getting away from the point at hand.

[furtiveglance]

I don't want Beat to get condemned. I want people to vote with me.

[furtiveglance]

Guys I thought we would still vote, then Enchant can overturn the elimination onto a player of choice if she wants.

[furtiveglance]

The team is BBT/Jacket/Korina, with Jacket as Cult Leader.

[furtiveglance]

Hello. I'm still in this game.

[furtiveglance]

I didn't expect that flip.

[furtiveglance]

Enchant is Governor.

Jacket/Nathann/RH9 claimed Vengeful.

Me/BBT/Bella claimed VT.

This means BBT/Bella are confirmed Cult. I need to re-evaluate things.

[furtiveglance]

I mean I agree with the decision, Korina was very suspicious. I didn't expect them to flip town.

[furtiveglance]

Bad choice. Unbelievable. I'm steamed.

Steamed?

[furtiveglance]

Around the Cult campfire

[furtiveglance]

Knowing that BBT and Bella are both Cult, I'm even more convinced than previously that Jacket is CL. Both other Cultists have just dismissed Jacket and want to 50/50 with each other.

[furtiveglance]

Enchant is Governor.

Jacket/Nathann/RH9 claimed Vengeful.

Me/BBT/Bella claimed VT.

This means BBT/Bella are confirmed Cult. I need to re-evaluate things.

Why is Bella being Cult such a shock to Furtive here? He has literally been scum reading Bella all game long and he STILL wants to push Jacket over her. No reevaluation happened at all.

This isn't so much a response to you as it is to the 3 other town here - I was pretty convinced Korina was Cult and wasn't sure whether you or Bella were, so well done on that. And thanks for proving my point by continuing to bring the conversation away from Jacket.

[furtiveglance]

Your selective response says everything I need it to my friend.

You have literally ignored everything other than something you felt you could respond to in a legitimate way.

You're quoting me going from sussing a Cultist to sussing a different Cultist. So thanks for the compliment.

[furtiveglance]

Nope.

You have shaded one Cult (CL) all game without pushing them (Bella)

You have shaded another Cult (Prime) all game and have pushed and pushed and pushed on them.

There is a huge difference in the way you treat the two slots.

Can you talk about how Bella magically dropped from your scum team when Enchant had the deciding vote?

Because you were voting off so many town and bragging about it. Obvious Prime behaviour.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah it looks like Bella is CL.

Hm...

Because of this, you're successfully distracting town with scum theatre.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Jacket

[furtiveglance]

Oh, I am?

Why is it you haven't even considered CL Bella? Despite sussing her all game long?

Because they weren't being protected. Jacket was.

[furtiveglance]

Both Prime Cultists crossing is what I expected.

[furtiveglance]

The only votes that matter are mine, Enchant's, Nathann's and RH9's.

[furtiveglance]

Your vote don't mean shit motherfucker

Nice attempt at baiting me into voting you.

[furtiveglance]

There's no compromise to be had. Voting Prime means we lose. You'd have to convince me that I'd misplaced Cult Leader among them.

[furtiveglance]

Nathann, if it helps you, BBT was interested for a while in limming between you or Jacket as per 284. In 178, furtive stated that Vengefuls claiming wasn't the best play and provided two reasons against it. Bella, on the other hand, didn't seem to care much about the Vengefuls claiming or getting voted.

178 was a lifetime ago. But I look back and I was right. Getting venge claims derailed the game, Cult Leader hid in there and was never voted. I think we probably lose here because the people with claims have no margin for error. Anyway, if we ever do this setup again, no claiming. If you get voted as Vengeful, just take a shot at the CL. It's better that way. The role is meant to be used.

[furtiveglance]

I started with the assumption that Prime Cultists wouldn't vote their Leader, and went from there.

BBT voted Bella and Jacket.
Bella voted BBT and Jacket.
furtive voted Jacket.
Jacket voted BBT and Bella.

each of the 4 of them got voted twice by others, except for furtive that didn't get voted at all. I thought that was out Cult Leader, but only then I realized he cannot be. If he's the Leader, Jacket has to be Prime, and one of BBT/Bella has to be Prime. But whichever one of them were Prime would've gotten hammered for the win by now. So that's not it.

So, at least at some point did at least Prime vote their Leader. Very useful info, I know.

It was completely safe to vote Jacket at that time. Because the narrative had been bought and sold that Leader would never claim Vengeful. You've ruled me out as Cult Leader. If I was a Jester role, I would have got voted day 1 or 2, I'm great at getting voted. You must know I'm town, and Jacket is CL.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Unlucky guys.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, I'm losing. RIP D:

[furtiveglance]

This whole game has been a bruh moment.

[furtiveglance]

What shall we talk about Enchant?

[furtiveglance]

Idk what Zumbalo is. I guess you're talking about the cult thing. It seemed like such a happy place at first, full of life and meaning.....

[furtiveglance]

I have one final trick, time to counterclaim Governor.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Enchant

[furtiveglance]

ok it's Enchant/Nathann and someone else, I have no idea who though.

[furtiveglance]

I tried to be sus, but not too sus. and I was sus. but somehow I wasn't sus enough and too sus.......sigh

[furtiveglance]

oh you were Beat? I wanted to convert you!

[furtiveglance]

no redactions from me

[furtiveglance]

I really liked the setup, I think because we never managed to get me or Jacket voted out one of the most fun mechanics (conversion) never happened. But regardless the outcome was less than certain right until the last day. Thanks for modding Goldfish!