Mini 2274: Terminator: Salvation Game Over!

[Vivax]

Yeah imo first 20ish pages are the juiciest
Don't know what went on in your PT though.

We ate Penguin burgers and Enchant did their thing.

[Aisa]

Post 1202 by RR reads like a self-invalidating one.

‘I defended someone from NAHA but it could be bussing’ expressed in a lot more words.

I don't really mind some good old hedging and self invalidating, I do plenty of that too. I think the issue for me is that RR's posts are not really leading to anything in any sort of visible way though. The hedging seems almost artificially limited to this one read on your slot because I've been asking about it. I think town!RR would be more likely to take a stand on, well, literally anything else?
...if someone knows RR and thinks I'm wrong this is like, a really good time to say something.

Anyway, will you help me in my quest for blood? Will you join me in voting for Rodent? Which one is better, bunnies or rats?

[Vivax]

Post 1202 by RR reads like a self-invalidating one.

‘I defended someone from NAHA but it could be bussing’ expressed in a lot more words.

I don't really mind some good old hedging and self invalidating, I do plenty of that too. I think the issue for me is that RR's posts are not really leading to anything in any sort of visible way though. The hedging seems almost artificially limited to this one read on your slot because I've been asking about it. I think town!RR would be more likely to take a stand on, well, literally anything else?
...if someone knows RR and thinks I'm wrong this is like, a really good time to say something.

Anyway, will you help me in my quest for blood? Will you join me in voting for Rodent? Which one is better, bunnies or rats?

I'm of enchants opinion on this one by now. Will compromise with people willing to compromise.
Your question isn't hard to answer though

VOTE: RadicalRat

[Aisa]

Ok, I read to about page 12 then decided to stop in order to push this post out then go to bed.

I'm efforting because I feel like the game could use a little more content right now. Also, it turns out, I now have things to say that no else is saying. Shocking.

So... here is a summary of my thoughs at the moment. Hope you all like reading walls.

Spoiler: Andante/JohnnyFarrar

My approach to reading this slot is to try to read Andante. She has a lot more content the JohnnyFarrar and I just feel better about my ability to read her.

Re-reading her posts I get the impression she is coming into the thread and saying everything that comes into her mind. I do not get the impression there is another PT somewhere where she is plotting what to say. I do not get the impression she is even trying to fake spontaneity. There are many posts I could bring up here, I guess I'll just quote part of a post I think is illustrative and let the reader judge for themselves:

Why are we voting heals based only off a few posts? I like the reasoning behind the heals but the game just literally started.

We only have four days to make two votes. Things need to get moving quickly if we don't want it to default to plurality (and we do not want that)

Sure, I understand that, but it's like, page 1 almost everyone who posted there was healing... we had NotAHecticAlt healing Penguin "cause mod" like... at least wait a bit lol like, once everyone is around, it's not usually that hard to find a few TRs, I know we don't wanna wait till the last minute, but we have 3 days, it's perfectly ok to not heal anyone in the first 24 hours lol

In any case I don't see why heals can't be functionally the same as votes for now

well, if someone hits 6 heals, they're leader... so like.. yeah

Hmm, but you know what, those who say they don't want power out of the gate might not be doing so because they don't want power...... paranoia...

hahaha woah what?? what an idea XD yeah see, cause it's mountainous, it's gonna have to be something that'll be reads related for our leaders, me and reads... my reads are eith decent or super off, so I read the leader thing and went "I really shouldn't be leader..." cause I know I'm gonna be a universal TR pretty quickly here, like, I almost always am one... as I'm catching up, I'm realizing I know no one here, or like, how yall play, I might know of some of yall sure, but I really don't know how anyone here plays, so I guess that's a good thing for my reads? which would mean, leader!me wouldn't be as bad as I initially thought, but ehhh I'm not campaigning for it lol I will push my TRs though!! They can make decisions!
[...]

Spoiler: Roden/Enchant

I'm just trying to read Enchant here. I have them as a townlean. I think they've made a few posts they probably don't make as scum here. Samples include:

So anyway.

CSF flipping maf HIGHLY suggests that last scum outside of team 2, because... Bruh really, why mafia would put all teammates with self, it's critically dumb.
So let's give remainings of Team 2 conftown status and sheep them.

Thanks, now i can go gaming normal games.

[...]
Well while game loading, i add.

3 ppls are conftowns.
I am conftown as well.

We can just bloodshred remainings for fast GG. That would include you of course, but you die for good cause lmao.

I thought these Enchant scum games Gamma linked in our PT were helpful:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89536
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89510

tl;dr I'm probably just subconsciously sheeping Gamma here

Spoiler: Shoshin/Toogeloo/Vivax

I have a townlean here. I do think this is one where I could be wrong.
The townlean is based on two things:
- The interactions we've had lately feel entirely right. This point is 100% a gut feeling, 0% logic.
- Vivax maybe townslipping by not understanding how PTs work? See below.

Currently, thinking about Roden and cat scratch

as well (irony)

(that’s a pretty common opinion)
(wouldn’t rush it)
I wouldn’t mind nominating myself either just because the leader role sounds goddamn cool XD
but like, if I were to be honest- my read accuracy on MS was never much above rand :/
so yeah…
I recognize that I’m just acting illogical

I don't actually consider myself trustable

Oh okay then.

VOTE: ejjinami

That's it?That's the joke?Mafia got outed by the OP and ejjnami is playing along like this? Bruh

The link to the Mafia PT being in the OP has no bearing on the alignment of people who notice it, I don't understand your argument here

It wasn't accessible?
[...]

Spoiler: ejjinami/Mathblade

Not sure how to feel about this one. I do think some of the interactions with the scum team are concerning - NAHA's scum to voting ejjinami's slot for leader, for example. However, after some rereading I still lean town. The interaction with Andante that begins around here seems towny (thanks Loki for the confidence boost on that one!)

Spoiler: Radical Rat

My current bet for scum. I think these should explain most of my reasoning:
1. this post: viewtopic.php?p=13435466#p13435466

2. the post below

Post 1202 by RR reads like a self-invalidating one.

‘I defended someone from NAHA but it could be bussing’ expressed in a lot more words.

I don't really mind some good old hedging and self invalidating, I do plenty of that too. I think the issue for me is that RR's posts are not really leading to anything in any sort of visible way though. The hedging seems almost artificially limited to this one read on your slot because I've been asking about it. I think town!RR would be more likely to take a stand on, well, literally anything else?
...if someone knows RR and thinks I'm wrong this is like, a really good time to say something.

Anyway, will you help me in my quest for blood? Will you join me in voting for Rodent? Which one is better, bunnies or rats?

Spoiler: Gamma

Is Gamma. I still stand by this:

[...]
Ok, here we are. Behold me trying to summarise a PT you cannot read and why the things Gamma said felt towny to me.

- When Gamma was arguing with Loki a lot of the posts were fired very quickly. Rereading them, it doesn't feel like Gamma needed to pause at all in order to check their tone or fake anything.
- One of the points of contention between Gamma and Loki in the PT was that Loki asked Gamma a question about their read on Fidget and NAHA. Gamma repeatedly refused to answer this because they felt Loki was asking this question in bad faith. Gamma also specifically pointed out that they answered similar questions posed by someone else, because it felt like that person. That just seems like an odd point to want to make as scum.
- They also seemed really grateful when CSF and Fidget came in during the argument and tread them both for it. Again that seems like a strange move if they're scum.

Sparknotes version: Gamma seemed really genuine when they got into the argument with Loki. There were multiple contextual cues that, to me, suggested they weren't just pushing Loki to put on a show but genuinely believed in what they were saying.

Hope that helps. Like, if Gamma survives all the way to 2:1 elo obviously whoever is alive then should be careful around the slot, but I don't really consider it worth my time and energy to even worry about Gamma being scum today.

(...Can't wait for Gamma to flip scum now so I undergo the maximum possible amount of humiliation in a single game :') )

[...]

I'm somewhat surprised no one has brought up this angle yet. Or maybe this is what Gamma means, idk, but I think it's a slightly different angle:
If there were 3 scum in my PT, they literally could have controlled the day 1 elimination and gone on to eliminate or kill all 3 townies in the PT (plus one in the other PT), thus automatically getting the game to 4:3 eLo.

The fact this didn't happen is somewhat short of a perfect clear, but IMO fairly close.

Also, FWIW, I think Gamma kinda towntold in the PT anyway.

This is obviously easy for me to say, but I am pretty keen for the 3-scum-in-one-PT theory to die down pretty soon.

[Aisa]

Ok, I read to about page 12 then decided to stop in order to push this post out then go to bed.

I'm efforting because I feel like the game could use a little more content right now. Also, it turns out, I now have things to say that no else is saying. Shocking.

So... here is a summary of my thoughs at the moment. Hope you all like reading walls.

Spoiler: Andante/JohnnyFarrar

My approach to reading this slot is to try to read Andante. She has a lot more content the JohnnyFarrar and I just feel better about my ability to read her.

Re-reading her posts I get the impression she is coming into the thread and saying everything that comes into her mind. I do not get the impression there is another PT somewhere where she is plotting what to say. I do not get the impression she is even trying to fake spontaneity. There are many posts I could bring up here, I guess I'll just quote part of a post I think is illustrative and let the reader judge for themselves:

Why are we voting heals based only off a few posts? I like the reasoning behind the heals but the game just literally started.

We only have four days to make two votes. Things need to get moving quickly if we don't want it to default to plurality (and we do not want that)

Sure, I understand that, but it's like, page 1 almost everyone who posted there was healing... we had NotAHecticAlt healing Penguin "cause mod" like... at least wait a bit lol like, once everyone is around, it's not usually that hard to find a few TRs, I know we don't wanna wait till the last minute, but we have 3 days, it's perfectly ok to not heal anyone in the first 24 hours lol

In any case I don't see why heals can't be functionally the same as votes for now

well, if someone hits 6 heals, they're leader... so like.. yeah

Hmm, but you know what, those who say they don't want power out of the gate might not be doing so because they don't want power...... paranoia...

hahaha woah what?? what an idea XD yeah see, cause it's mountainous, it's gonna have to be something that'll be reads related for our leaders, me and reads... my reads are eith decent or super off, so I read the leader thing and went "I really shouldn't be leader..." cause I know I'm gonna be a universal TR pretty quickly here, like, I almost always am one... as I'm catching up, I'm realizing I know no one here, or like, how yall play, I might know of some of yall sure, but I really don't know how anyone here plays, so I guess that's a good thing for my reads? which would mean, leader!me wouldn't be as bad as I initially thought, but ehhh I'm not campaigning for it lol I will push my TRs though!! They can make decisions!
[...]

Spoiler: Roden/Enchant

I'm just trying to read Enchant here. I have them as a townlean. I think they've made a few posts they probably don't make as scum here. Samples include:

So anyway.

CSF flipping maf HIGHLY suggests that last scum outside of team 2, because... Bruh really, why mafia would put all teammates with self, it's critically dumb.
So let's give remainings of Team 2 conftown status and sheep them.

Thanks, now i can go gaming normal games.

[...]
Well while game loading, i add.

3 ppls are conftowns.
I am conftown as well.

We can just bloodshred remainings for fast GG. That would include you of course, but you die for good cause lmao.

I thought these Enchant scum games Gamma linked in our PT were helpful:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89536
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89510

tl;dr I'm probably just subconsciously sheeping Gamma here

Spoiler: Shoshin/Toogeloo/Vivax

I have a townlean here. I do think this is one where I could be wrong.
The townlean is based on two things:
- The interactions we've had lately feel entirely right. This point is 100% a gut feeling, 0% logic.
- Vivax maybe townslipping by not understanding how PTs work? See below.

Currently, thinking about Roden and cat scratch

as well (irony)

(that’s a pretty common opinion)
(wouldn’t rush it)
I wouldn’t mind nominating myself either just because the leader role sounds goddamn cool XD
but like, if I were to be honest- my read accuracy on MS was never much above rand :/
so yeah…
I recognize that I’m just acting illogical

I don't actually consider myself trustable

Oh okay then.

VOTE: ejjinami

That's it?That's the joke?Mafia got outed by the OP and ejjnami is playing along like this? Bruh

The link to the Mafia PT being in the OP has no bearing on the alignment of people who notice it, I don't understand your argument here

It wasn't accessible?
[...]

Spoiler: ejjinami/Mathblade

Not sure how to feel about this one. I do think some of the interactions with the scum team are concerning - NAHA's scum to voting ejjinami's slot for leader, for example. However, after some rereading I still lean town. The interaction with Andante that begins around here seems towny (thanks Loki for the confidence boost on that one!)

Spoiler: Radical Rat

My current bet for scum. I think these should explain most of my reasoning:
1. this post: viewtopic.php?p=13435466#p13435466

2. the post below

Post 1202 by RR reads like a self-invalidating one.

‘I defended someone from NAHA but it could be bussing’ expressed in a lot more words.

I don't really mind some good old hedging and self invalidating, I do plenty of that too. I think the issue for me is that RR's posts are not really leading to anything in any sort of visible way though. The hedging seems almost artificially limited to this one read on your slot because I've been asking about it. I think town!RR would be more likely to take a stand on, well, literally anything else?
...if someone knows RR and thinks I'm wrong this is like, a really good time to say something.

Anyway, will you help me in my quest for blood? Will you join me in voting for Rodent? Which one is better, bunnies or rats?

Spoiler: Gamma

Is Gamma. I still stand by this:

[...]
Ok, here we are. Behold me trying to summarise a PT you cannot read and why the things Gamma said felt towny to me.

- When Gamma was arguing with Loki a lot of the posts were fired very quickly. Rereading them, it doesn't feel like Gamma needed to pause at all in order to check their tone or fake anything.
- One of the points of contention between Gamma and Loki in the PT was that Loki asked Gamma a question about their read on Fidget and NAHA. Gamma repeatedly refused to answer this because they felt Loki was asking this question in bad faith. Gamma also specifically pointed out that they answered similar questions posed by someone else, because it felt like that person. That just seems like an odd point to want to make as scum.
- They also seemed really grateful when CSF and Fidget came in during the argument and tread them both for it. Again that seems like a strange move if they're scum.

Sparknotes version: Gamma seemed really genuine when they got into the argument with Loki. There were multiple contextual cues that, to me, suggested they weren't just pushing Loki to put on a show but genuinely believed in what they were saying.

Hope that helps. Like, if Gamma survives all the way to 2:1 elo obviously whoever is alive then should be careful around the slot, but I don't really consider it worth my time and energy to even worry about Gamma being scum today.

(...Can't wait for Gamma to flip scum now so I undergo the maximum possible amount of humiliation in a single game :') )

[...]

I'm somewhat surprised no one has brought up this angle yet. Or maybe this is what Gamma means, idk, but I think it's a slightly different angle:
If there were 3 scum in my PT, they literally could have controlled the day 1 elimination and gone on to eliminate or kill all 3 townies in the PT (plus one in the other PT), thus automatically getting the game to 4:3 eLo.

The fact this didn't happen is somewhat short of a perfect clear, but IMO fairly close.

Also, FWIW, I think Gamma kinda towntold in the PT anyway.

This is obviously easy for me to say, but I am pretty keen for the 3-scum-in-one-PT theory to die down pretty soon.

[Radical Rat]

I think town!RR would be more likely to take a stand on, well, literally anything else?

What else do I need to take a stand on? There's one scum left, and I think I've found 'em. I've explained my townreads on everyone else, even if some are obviously on shakier ground than others. Like... there really isn't anything else for me to have an opinion on.

[Radical Rat]

Wait I think Vivax hammered me

[Radical Rat]

Alright well.

Avenge me, and failing that... I'd have to say Ejj/Mathblade. I was thinking about it, and it is very interesting that over half of the people on both teams were the same, including known scum. At the time, I chalked it up to them just being consensus townreads, but... also highly possible they agreed on ideal team members in the scum chat.

[Radical Rat]

Vivax first though.

Catch ya in post-game.
Or dead thread for Aisa probably.

[Enchant]

You have only 2 votes on you.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I just wasn't gonna say anything

[Radical Rat]

... I horribly misread the VC somehow

[Gamma Emerald]

Why does RR assume Aisa is gonna die?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Elimination VC:

Radical Rat [2]:

Aisa, Vivax

Vivax[2]:

Radical Rat, JohnnyFarrar

JohnnyFarrar [1]:

Enchant

Mathblade [1]:

Gamma Emerald

not voting [1]:

Mathblade

Event

Deadline

(expired on 2022-07-13 09:00:00)

[Radical Rat]

Why does RR assume Aisa is gonna die?

Because neither you nor Aisa are viable eliminations, and Aisa's more talkative

[MathBlade]

Why are you thinking in terms of viable vs who is scum?

It may be that the last scum is townread.

I am thinking Vivax or you based on these pages.

[Radical Rat]

Because the question that was asked was why I expected Aisa to get nightkilled, which would be answered from scum's perspective. It wouldn't be viable for them to get an elimination on the past survivors because we've all decided third scum was in the present.

[Vivax]

Don't overthink it. This is a win unless enchant or Aisa are mafia.

[MathBlade]

I mean, not like we have too much of a choice, I mean we can gamble on team 2 being all town? cause Ejj's team... WHY COPY 3 PEOPLE FROM THE OTHER TEAM???? I don't tr fidget or aisa, so lose/lose, I really don't care which team is voted, I just don't wanna spend 7 days discussing which team of maf we're voting

I think Andante/Johnny is town or an informed slip. I don’t think scum would be that brave? But this is interesting.

[MathBlade]

these teams suck

Matches what I expect scum to do. Apathy because no point

[MathBlade]

Other than a growing worry over CSF/Aisa potentially both being scum, right in front of me, taunting me

I'm not really sure I'd want RR/Andante over them. I don't have any burning suspicions but I don't understand what Andante's thinking (nor why there are so many townreads on Andante). I'm scared that they're genuine but as of right now I kind of have been getting the impression they're playing up frustration. I'm really not sure where the immediate vote on team TWO comes from other than for maybe appearances.

I'm gonna read RR's comments on CSF now.

So, these are the mech posts that pinged me, though in my mind there were a lot more of these, I guess I got stuff mixed around in my head.

Spoiler:

Last blurb on spec I promise

but the role pm says we have our voice and vote, but glaringly missing from it is that there's nothing about voting out players from the game, which makes me think the leaders probably have control over the lims. So yeah, I strongly suspect read accuracy will matter.

---

HEAL: Andante

This sounds like town!Andante to me.

are they always so dramatic?

Dramatic? They sound genuine and that’s why I’m so confident she’s town here.

what I meant was- they misunderstood my posts in pretty silly ways
I got the feeling that they read my posts, got slighty triggered and then overwhelmed with anger when they started writing and describing how scummy and rude I am. As if just writing that kept fueling their anger, causing them to notice new and new arguments for how I'm being bad (which actually were based on pretty simple misunderstandings- I don't think it should be considered scummy by a person who's emotionally sober)

I was asking if it's normal for town!Andante to get so lost in their feelings and lose track of reality
or like... if it's just normal for them to tunnel

sorry if I'm being rude again, I don't know how to describe it otherwhise

I don't think they lose track of reality, but yes Andante does play a very emotionally transparent game. This is completely within her townrange

Feeling town on Ejjinami, I like their analysis here and on 96

but the role pm says we have our voice and vote, but glaringly missing from it is that there's nothing about voting out players from the game, which makes me think the leaders probably have control over the lims. So yeah, I strongly suspect read accuracy will matter.

That is never going to happen and if it does i hope they get 186 as well

Never say never but yeah that would be kind of unfun

Another theory I have is they get special PR-like abilities based on what I'm reading about John Connor in the Terminator Wiki lol

However, they just seem weird and out of place, like I said earlier, like they're meant to draw attention away from relevant discussion.

Beyond that, the energy here is wonky. I know she said she was sick, and that's probably part of it, but... It feels very coasty, kinda going with the flow.

And then after being elected, the suggestion that she'd just pick her healers is demonstrative of a lack of care or investment. Like, if she's scum here, she's already won, it really doesn't matter who her team is, so picking something as superficial as that makes sense. And then she backed down when called on it, of course.

I do not see what you're seeing. I agree that CSF is light on content early, she's felt like she's not really trying to exert control over the game.

Could be scary scum hiding right in front of my eyes but I just didn't pick up on the wonky vibes RR was getting. I also think the reasoning at the end is stretching somewhat -- like does this:

And then after being elected, the suggestion that she'd just pick her healers is demonstrative of a lack of care or investment. Like, if she's scum here, she's already won, it really doesn't matter who her team is, so picking something as superficial as that makes sense. And then she backed down when called on it, of course.

Really seem like a fair description of this?:

Spoiler: a bunch of CSF quotes around the aforementioned area

If it comes down to the wire since we only have a day, I'll probably pick ppl who voted for me lol

Hmm actually

@pooky

, can someone be selected to be part of both crews?

ohhhh okay then that simplifies things a bit, since we don't have to decide who goes into which group

so we basically pick our top 5 townreads I think

I need to get back to work, but NAHA, Loki, Fidget, Gamma, ???

What does your ideal crew look like, Aisa?

I'd consider enchant.

Enchant, why did you hammer me for leader instead of hectic? We were both at e-1

FB is a maybe town, bc upon review of his ISO, I feel like his posting felt more scum motivated in Infernal Affairs than it does here... he's just like out here vibing. But he's also just a bigger wildcard in general, and idk if I can ever get to a point where I feel good and confident about healing there

ahhh I'll sleep on it. I should be able to make time for this game tomorrow morning

But for now, this is my squad!

Like, I didn't notice the "she backed down when called on it" part. Maybe I just missed it? This really doesn't seem like CSF feeling like she's already won, which I already think is a huge stretch, since we're just in the second phase and CSF didn't noticeably like, go down in content since becoming leader.

Fidget died and thought CSF/Aisa. Interesting.

[Enchant]

I have strong feeling Math trying to dig on me.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Team 2

I kinda think CSF/Toog is likely based on play trying to generate fake discussion

[MathBlade]

I have strong feeling Math trying to dig on me.

?? I don’t follow?? You’re not in my PoE at all right now?

[Enchant]

I have strong feeling Math trying to dig on me.

?? I don’t follow?? You’re not in my PoE at all right now?

Because i called both teams bad as well.