Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

[Lowell]

Ugh prince is probably town. Sad

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Came to the conclusion that Crescent probably is town thinking I am mafia. That's one player.

The details of how I'll be reading other players I won't post so I don't clog up the thread. I'll write it on my notes.txt file instead.

[Andante]

Came to the conclusion that Crescent probably is town thinking I am mafia. That's one player.

The details of how I'll be reading other players I won't post so I don't clog up the thread. I'll write it on my notes.txt file instead.

how did you reach the conclusion that crescent is town?

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Looked through the ISO, saw that she weren't saying that I was mafia since the beginning, suggesting she arrived at the conclusion and isn't pretending to lock me as mafia.

[Firebringer]

Gooooood morning scum butts.

I am going to sleep, but I will catch up soonish!

Xoxo

no sleep for u
VOTE: malakittens

[Firebringer]

i don't feel fred is that scummy.
Indecisive with no solid read formation - definitely
scum motivated? Ehhhhhhhhh....

I mean theres multiple things not to like -


But then i go would scum really come up with this way of making reads? I mean its low tier effort. Is it easy to fake? Def but like its also not something i would expect scum to post or say about reads to get them out of scrutiny. I mean maybe i am giving fred too much credit thinking he would try to over explain or compensate for reads but its pretty unabashed like my reads are bad and i know it.

Why doesn't he seem to go out of way to fix it? Good question. He should answer that because if all his townreads are very weak to basically be worthless. How is his non reads he wants to vote worth pushing.

Also i feel like theres more notes in the background than what is being said which irks me and makes me think there is lack of transparency from fred.

Man i found several reasons to stick with fred. Its just i don't feel that scum vibe. The logic/reasoning and even care aren't there but it just doesn't feel scummy. I would ask why he puts so little effort in now compared to i think he was more involved yesterday (which could mean scum demotivated from losing member?) or maybe just life.

Anyways all this to say. I am not feeling fred atm

[Firebringer]

You give Fred a naughty point for voting Fire, then.. You also vote Fire?

This feels contradictory.

only on a surface level
fred is naughty for voting me without ever mentioning me once.
i am naughty for omgus voting fred. Also explained what posts don't like of mine already.

Actually makes a lot of sense and pretty townie

[Firebringer]

it might be worth pushing andante if nothing else then to get her to be more involved. Feels like she is just not present and asking questions to try to get herself involved but not really actively reading enough to see her question in 1027 was pretty pointless because fred explanation of townread existed even if shallow before. Unless u want to dig deeper u got to ask deeper questions.

Like how do you see crescent is solving or something.
Which i still think is pointless because crescent is one of most active voices in game. Very easy for scum/town to answer this if reading.

[Firebringer]

Reasons that just strengthened my townread on Dwlee:
Dwlee99 has attempted to understand the scumreads on MegAzumarill.
Dwlee99 warned that my strategy of executing those that aren't looking for mafia in a 5-day period on the first day basically never works.

Crescent's interaction with MegAzumarill starting post 20 suggests Crescent isn't town with MegAzumarill. Basically, two mafia players don't interact like this, or at least I don't think they do.

Also these reasons for townreading Dwlee is shit.

1) Could easily be a question to see what is scummy about an ally to help defense or figure out if its worth bussing.
2) The strategy thing is purely player theory/perspective not AI

[Firebringer]

Pooky, i now trust you to be town. So you won't get a nickname. You may now complain

I sometimes wonder....if I hadn't called pooky town and kept calling him scum as a meme.
Would scum not have killed?

Probably still killed. But the fact i didn't shade him more so he could stay with us. Will haunt me for the rest of my days in this game.

[Firebringer]

you know i have same problem with both malcolm and Prince.
They both make comments that I think are almost looking at game from a scum perspective. Which might just be a scum hunting strat way. But the way presented almost seems like not aware of how it comes accross.

By this I mean they are looking at positions and opinions of how people shift opinions/votes in a way of who would go where (which I don't think is useful for scumhunting but is good for awareness as scum) and also looking at the optics of what would look good or bad positions to analyze reads (which is okay/too good scumhunting)

Maybe this is why I find them a bit sketchy. They both are doing their own thing and if I had to guess I would say Malcolm cares less about the appearance (which is points for him) but I don't see Prince as like trying to appeal to anyone in particular. Prince is literally doing own thing like taking notes in game thread and seeing where takes em.

I want pressure on prince just to see what would happen when prince is appealing to crowd or specific people more.

[Firebringer]

Lets do a read list before i crash-

Town
geraintm
Crescent
Bugspray
Greeting
Vivax

Null Lean Town
Lowell
Prince
Malcolm

Null
Frederick
Enchant
Unsure
Unown
Andante

Scum Lean
Malakittens

[Firebringer]

I am not liking my null and null lean town boxes.
I guess I would favor more town for lowell even if i don't like all his insistence on being confirmed
I would normally put enchant in null lean town but i don't want him in there.
frederick i go back and forth with and don't want to push for lim atm. But overall think it could be useful flip if we don't see more notes/thoughts that aren't just so lacking.

And Unsure/Unown I really don't have opinions except for the vote from unsure predecessor i think i said was a buss before? Unsure/Unown are like true null to me.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Spoiler: post 1030

i don't feel fred is that scummy.
Indecisive with no solid read formation - definitely
scum motivated? Ehhhhhhhhh....

I mean theres multiple things not to like -


But then i go would scum really come up with this way of making reads? I mean its low tier effort. Is it easy to fake? Def but like its also not something i would expect scum to post or say about reads to get them out of scrutiny. I mean maybe i am giving fred too much credit thinking he would try to over explain or compensate for reads but its pretty unabashed like my reads are bad and i know it.

Why doesn't he seem to go out of way to fix it? Good question. He should answer that because if all his townreads are very weak to basically be worthless. How is his non reads he wants to vote worth pushing.

Also i feel like theres more notes in the background than what is being said which irks me and makes me think there is lack of transparency from fred.

Man i found several reasons to stick with fred. Its just i don't feel that scum vibe. The logic/reasoning and even care aren't there but it just doesn't feel scummy. I would ask why he puts so little effort in now compared to i think he was more involved yesterday (which could mean scum demotivated from losing member?) or maybe just life.

Anyways all this to say. I am not feeling fred atm

Spoiler: Irrelevant personal headspace

I kind of want to look through posts again and reform my reads. I kind of just assumed that my townreads are good enough but then kind of quickly realised they were not when going through to see why I am even townreading some players. The non reads are really not worth pushing to me anymore.

As for notes in the background, yeah, there were. I never used them and promptly deleted all of it a few hours ago to restart from scratch. They were just too hard for myself to understand why I labelled a player a townread and were thus useless. Kind of just realised I happened to make a copy of the notes file as my laptop's Wi-Fi isn't working.

I'm just really going to go do something else for a few hours and come back when I am not feeling whatever I am feeling right now. I kind of think I feel a little responsible that this game is like so slow since I can't quite get it moving anymore.

Anyway, I recovered the notes mentioned in the "Irrelevant personal headspace" section. The valuable part to me are the associations.
I still kind of want to get rid of it for good, but I'll make a desicion on that tomorrow when I am a little less biased against it for getting me into this mess.

Spoiler: Messy Notes

1-10 indicates certainty
Greeting
Post 87 - Town(1)
Post 129 - Town(1)
Post 130 - Town(1)
Post 176 - Town(1)
Post 294 - Town(1) Attempting to figure out alignments
Post 332 - Town(1)

bugspray
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 60, 62, 67-68, 82, 102, 184-185, 193, 204, 208, 213) suggests (1) not both are mafia

Post 204 -
Andante
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 138-140) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Town(3) - Attempting to find alignment

Lowell
Interaction with UNOwen (Post 10) suggests(1) not both are mafia
Posts 168-169 - If Lowell sees who we are killing as MegAzumarill despite only having one vote from PookyTheMagicalBear and not being on Datisi the mod's votecount, this appears to be a push disguised as a sheep.

Vivax
Interaction with MegAzumarill (Posts 21-22) suggests not both are mafia
Vote hopping - Non Alignment Indicative
Post 33 - Town
Post 41 - Town
Interaction with UNOwen (Posts 26, 106, 108, 119, 122-128, 134, 137-138) suggests (7.5,7.5,7.5,10,122(1) 123(10) 124(1) 126(10) 127 128 ,-,-) not both are mafia
Interaction with Andante (Posts 138-140) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Interaction with Crescent (Posts 141-142, 149) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Interaction with Prince of Paterson (Posts 143, 145-148) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Interaction with bugspray (Posts 60, 62, 67-68, 82, 102, 184-185, 193, 204, 208, 213) suggests (1) not both are mafia

FancyPants
Post 342 by Crescent- Suggests(1) not mafia with Crescent
Post 344 - Town (1)
Post 471
Post 473

Dwlee99
Post 120 - Says "Andante town". Scum post if there is no reason.
Interaction with Prince of Paterson (Post 144) suggests (-) not both are mafia

Crescent
Post 16 - Town(1) if UNOwen is Mafia. Brought up "Owen's first post is an exact replica of his first post in 2273, where he was scum". Town(1) if UNOwen is Mafia because it is not beneficial to a Crescent that is Mafia. Possible that Crescent simply didn't think about it.
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 141-142, 149) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Post 341 - Town(1)
Post 342 - Town(1) Suggests(1) not mafia with FancyPants
Post 343 - Town(1)

Prince of Paterson
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 143, 145-148) suggests (-) not both are mafia
Interaction with Dwlee99 (Post 144) suggests (-) not both are mafia

MegAzumarill
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 21-22) suggests not both are mafia
Post 116 - To Be Verified. Mafia(1) if UNOwen is Mafia because townread on Crescent makes sense if UNOwen is Mafia and MegAzumarill knew that.
Post 334 - Town(1)
Post 337 - Town(10)

geraintm
he votes for absolutely no reason, and later calls attention to the fact that he voted for no given reason... Then shades Enchant for doing the same thing with essentially no justification, but remains on Fred anyway for.. No justification.

PookyTheMagicalBear
Post 4 - Town
Interaction with MegAzumarill (Post 171) suggests not both are mafia

UNOwen
Interaction with Lowell (Post 10) suggests(1) not both are mafia
Post 107 - Mafia(1) if UNOwen does nothing with my answer
Post 121 - Mafia(1) if Crescent is Mafia as UNOwen's response could be because UNOwen knows Crescent is Mafia.
Interaction with Vivax (Posts 26, 106, 108, 119, 122-128, 134, 137-138) suggests (7.5,7.5,7.5,10,122(1) 123(10) 124(1) 126(10) 127 128 ,-,-) not both are mafia
Post 219 - Andante asked about the same thing

Enchant
Post 320 - Town(1)

I'm simply not going to spam the thread anymore than this. Taking a break from this is the best thing I could do, but, if you can't tell, I've come back to this for at least the second time since saying I'm going to do something else before coming back.

[Greeting]

Hey,

Mala

! You're in luck, because you have until Day 3 to produce content, otherwise I will be voting to eliminate you out as a policy (as I would have had Dwlee99 not been replaced).

xoxo

This is kinda why I took immediate exception to Fred townclearing them for "solving". DWlee was so inactive and useless that multiple people probably had sentiment like this. It really gave me the impression he's not really reading the game while giving out these reads.

Just because someone is wrong, doesn't mean their intentions aren't genuine. Most people would say Dwlee99 was doing absolutely nothing, but there exists a perspective which counts their push on

Enchant

as scumhunting. I do not think that the scumteam would engage in defense of such a bad slot so openly.

Fredrick A Campbell

sounds too willing to solve the game overall.

I will vote this slot only if there is no feasible chance of getting an

Unsure

elim, and the alternative is no hammer.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Well, I believe not revising my reads for a few days was a mistake. It has been swiftly corrected.

Upon actually looking at my notes, there is a good case that Dwlee99 is mafia. They never explained why they thought MegAzumarill was town. Glad I had the backup.

VOTE: Malakittens

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Apparently I am mistaken. They never explained why they thought Andante was town. Point still stands, although it is not as bad as what I thought it was.

[Fredrick A Campbell]

Spoiler: post 1033

Reasons that just strengthened my townread on Dwlee:
Dwlee99 has attempted to understand the scumreads on MegAzumarill.
Dwlee99 warned that my strategy of executing those that aren't looking for mafia in a 5-day period on the first day basically never works.

Crescent's interaction with MegAzumarill starting post 20 suggests Crescent isn't town with MegAzumarill. Basically, two mafia players don't interact like this, or at least I don't think they do.

Also these reasons for townreading Dwlee is shit.

1) Could easily be a question to see what is scummy about an ally to help defense or figure out if its worth bussing.
2) The strategy thing is purely player theory/perspective not AI

Fair points. I'm no longer placing this player in a townlean to any extent anymore.

[Vivax]

Ugh prince is probably town. Sad

This is too hyperbole to be genuine.

Was starting to doubt Fredrick scum a little bit after reading some of his past games, but his latest posts have made me feel more confident again.

This from Prince doesn't read like natural thinking.

Maybe worth thinking of a Lowell + Prince team as well?

[Vivax]

Lowell, Unsure, Prince

probs would be my launch pool

[Vivax]

becuz if you arrange their names like Lowell/Unsure/Meg/Prince it spells out LUMP

which is pretty close to PUMP and its time to get PUMPED UP

Only cool team is team bonkers tbh

[Datisi]

prodding bugspray, MalcolmTucker, and Unsure.

[geraintm]

tis game is dying a death, second game in a row

[Lowell]

I'd like unsure to come back so we can get more votes on that slot. Seems the best way to avoid elim is to disappear.

[Greeting]

The game slowed down, because all of us, active posters, have made their decisions as to where to go next, and the rest haven't been following up much. Also, in my opinion, the days are a quite long, even for games which have many players. I really don't see us keeping up an intense discussion for the next 7 days.

@

MalcolmTucker

, @

Malakittens

, @

UNOwen

, unless you're waiting for something in particular, you should be casting your votes on existing wagons or making cases of your own.

I'd like unsure to come back so we can get more votes on that slot. Seems the best way to avoid elim is to disappear.

Meg

also disappeared just before they got eliminated.