Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.13

Votecount 1.13

Cat Scratch Fever (4): furtiveglance, Infinity 324, froggodoggo, Klick
Enchant (2): Hiraki, Lucian
Lucian (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Aisa
Aisa (2): Cat Scratch Fever, Gamma Emerald
Malakittens (1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): Malakittens, Dunnstral

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2022-07-24 18:36:43).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll read up on this later today.

Apologies for not being active.

[furtiveglance]

I have awoken from my slumber. I was tossing and turning all night, fever nightmares of unexpected town flips and scum claiming PR and living forever.

Anyway, the only votes I like on this here Votecount 1.13 are on CSF and Malakittens.

[Klick]

This is pretty compelling reasoning for why you would be playing differently. I don't like how vague you've been with your townreads here.

UNVOTE:

I don't have any confident reads, also I'm not ready to end the day yet, the game just started.

I don't have a good answer for your last question, I just didn't think that you would push for that.

Would you say that this vagueness is different from other times you've seen me in any particular way? I feel as though this is an intrinsic, almost intentional part of my current play style, so it's curious to me that you're interested in it here in particular.

I also don't want to end the day yet, if that wasn't clear

[froggodoggo]

I have awoken from my slumber. I was tossing and turning all night, fever nightmares of unexpected town flips and scum claiming PR and living forever.

i LOL'd

[Hiraki]

I take the above back, you did say that in 318. Not sure what you think is wrong with my post.

it's not good phrasing. i understand what you're saying but i don't like the point of view it implies

[Lucian]

Are you an alt, Lucian?

I do have experience outside this account.

VOTE: Klick

I didn't like their arguing that Hiraki should decide the elimination and that we had info to work with because I think they know better than to push for that kind of thing on day 1. We would have little to work with if we did this. Further, I don't think that there is a lot of information to solve the game with right now and am surprised that they think otherwise, and that they are creating town/scum lists this early. Finally, I didn't like their wagon vote on CSF.

This

is sketchy though. You 100% know why I am with Klick on allowing Hiraki to dictate things.

Can us mortals know what's going on here?

[Lucian]

Aisa feels clearly town to me

Mind explaining why?

[Lucian]

I'm thinking Gamma is likely to be Town here. Her argument with Dunn feels like she's thinking about it behind the scenes, but the fact she's not really explaining what's going on in her head make it more likely to be genuine solving rather than just for show.

[furtiveglance]

I cc townreading Aisa, I did that first, I disagree about GE but since everyone else TRs them I'll accept it. Lucian is so town.

[Infinity 324]

I'm thinking Gamma is likely to be Town here. Her argument with Dunn feels like she's thinking about it behind the scenes, but the fact she's not really explaining what's going on in her head make it more likely to be genuine solving rather than just for show.

yeah i've used this to tr gamma forever so i approve

next time be less towny before you do this though because i gained no townreads from this

-ellies

[Lucian]

I cc townreading Aisa

You are also free to try to convince me why I'm wrong about Aisa.

Infinity, do you still like your CSF vote?

[furtiveglance]

I guess Aisa voting Lucian is a little weird. If they find a vote that pleases me more all will be forgiven.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, do you still like your CSF vote?

to be honest i never loved the vote, but it's the system's consensus favorite wagon. aisa is an ok vote too but nothing she's done is scummy i think? idk people kinda just need to do stuff

[Aisa]

Just gonna come out and say that I see all this but I need to RL pretty hard tonight so not sure I'll have time to address this today
...which also explains why I got in made two easy posts and left

It's also the furtive meta read, which ended up as a townread but then you immediately qualified it

[...]

I don't think there's anything wrong with qualifying reads. I mean, I can see why you find it scummy, but to me it's a way of signaling exactly the strength of my read as well as its limitations. I don't want to come in, say I HAVE 100% READ ACCURACY ON FURTIVE and cause others to update their read of furtive in a way that is unwarranted. If I reread the game I was basing my read on and it's different from what I remembered, I'm gonna point that out.

It seems good to say clearly what my read on furtive is at this point. I'd say it is a medium-strength townread. As I've mentioned, I think that the difference in tone from my experience of their scumgame - they're more jokey here, and seem less calculated - makes them a bit more likely to be town. I also think the interaction they had with you is good. Like I read them as genuinely torn about their read on you.
However, I'm going to qualify my read a little now . Since I first mentioned this townread I've realised that enough of furtive's posts are jokes or one-liners that it could be consistent with a particular scum playstyle. To me this means there is residual uncertainty (heck, it's still day 1!) and this particular universe/possibility of scum!furtive is something I wanna keep an eye on as the game progresses.
In conclusion: I tr furtive enough that I wouldn't lim them today and I'd probably chainsaw for them if they were at serious risk of being eliminated.

I'll talk about Dunn, too, but I'm actually around for a little while and can interact with people in real time tonight, so I think I'll do my posting in little installments

[Aisa]

[...]
We can talk about Dunn if you'd like and what pinged you there

This is a slightly harder one to explain because it was just one throwaway post. You know that feeling when you're town and make a slightly weak post, you know in the back of your head it's gonna land you in trouble, but it's all you feel like contributing at the time and lo and behold we're here now...? Yeah.

Anyway. Maybe I can explain why it pinged me this way: my reaction to any short post with a question is to think "hmm, even if this is a good question this does not preclude the poster being scum." I've kinda mentioned this in my post above, but recently I've been thinking a bit more with the framework of "could X still plausibly be scum here?" so that was on my mind when I was warning against reading too much into Dunn's few posts. "Gave me a bit of a scumping" was a slightly imprecise way of communicating what I was thinking at the time.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess Aisa voting Lucian is a little weird. If they find a vote that pleases me more all will be forgiven.

this vibes weird

[Aisa]

Part of my problem with this game is that I have at least a townlean on like 5 out of 6 of the highest posters in game so far
froggo - furtive - CSF - Gamma - Klick
and it would just be too convenient if they were all town? But I haven't really found a satisfactory way to resolve this / decided who I wanna demote. It's true that 5/6 is not a terrible raw ratio - it's completely consistent with 8-9 townies out of 11 - it just feels too convenient that town would have such a disproportionate presence in thread right now.

I should also say that I have no clue how one would find an SK so every time I say "town" it should be interpreted as "town or SK".

Also I really disagree with the CSF wagon. The fact it built so quickly made me go and look for mafia on the wagon, but it's hard to know what to do. Infinity, froggo and Klick just quickvoted after one another. Maybe I'll take back my froggo townread idk

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Need to think before i vote.

This surprises me ngl

[Lucian]

Need to think before i vote.

This surprises me ngl

I think it might be because he's scum. Especially considering I don't get the idea he is thinking about this game at all.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[...]
We can talk about Dunn if you'd like and what pinged you there

This is a slightly harder one to explain because it was just one throwaway post. You know that feeling when you're town and make a slightly weak post, you know in the back of your head it's gonna land you in trouble, but it's all you feel like contributing at the time and lo and behold we're here now...? Yeah.

Anyway. Maybe I can explain why it pinged me this way: my reaction to any short post with a question is to think "hmm, even if this is a good question this does not preclude the poster being scum." I've kinda mentioned this in my post above, but recently I've been thinking a bit more with the framework of "could X still plausibly be scum here?" so that was on my mind when I was warning against reading too much into Dunn's few posts. "Gave me a bit of a scumping" was a slightly imprecise way of communicating what I was thinking at the time.

I guess it pinged me, because you were cautioning against forming a TR at a low-info point of the game, when I think most (all?) town reads are implicitly qualified "...but they could still be scum here" if that makes sense

[Aisa]

And for the record, I have considered the baseline for Enchant's play. He's under it.

I haven't decided yet whether it's just a playstyle difference or something more, you know? But also he feels a bit like he's jumping all around without committing to anything in a way that scum could plausibly fake.

The game's been going no for 48 hours. What does "committing" mean at this point? Has anyone committed to anything?

Hmm. What I meant to say is that it felt a bit like you'd pick someone, make some small criticism then move on to the next player. I get what you mean that the game had been going on for 48 hours and no one needs to be committed to a wagon yet, I agree with you and that was probably poor wording choice on my part. I guess I just meant to say that it felt like your reads were a bit shallow.

But I'm thinking that may be unfair and I may need to update my read so
I'll talk about that in my next post

And also this - again it feels like this shows a lack of consideration for what the baseline of Enchant's play is.

Hmm. Aisa, do you have experience with Enchant? Do you have any knowledge of his play?

A bit - just finished playing in Terminator with him.
I haven't really decided yet but he doesn't seem overly scummy to me this game.

[Aisa]

[...]
We can talk about Dunn if you'd like and what pinged you there

This is a slightly harder one to explain because it was just one throwaway post. You know that feeling when you're town and make a slightly weak post, you know in the back of your head it's gonna land you in trouble, but it's all you feel like contributing at the time and lo and behold we're here now...? Yeah.

Anyway. Maybe I can explain why it pinged me this way: my reaction to any short post with a question is to think "hmm, even if this is a good question this does not preclude the poster being scum." I've kinda mentioned this in my post above, but recently I've been thinking a bit more with the framework of "could X still plausibly be scum here?" so that was on my mind when I was warning against reading too much into Dunn's few posts. "Gave me a bit of a scumping" was a slightly imprecise way of communicating what I was thinking at the time.

I guess it pinged me, because you were cautioning against forming a TR at a low-info point of the game, when I think most (all?) town reads are implicitly qualified "...but they could still be scum here" if that makes sense

It kinda makes sense. I don't think something has ever pinged me in a similar way so I can't exactly say I empathise, but I can respect that it pinged you?

[Aisa]

Oh whoops CSF I thought you were talking about something else. You were talking about my post about Dunn. That actually makes 100% sense.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah, I just meant it looked like you were torpedo'ing an early town read for no reason (since you weren't scumreading Dunn and even thought he asked good questions, in fact!)

Why do you think I'm town? My scumflip in Terminator really surprised you IIRC! I'm surprised you're not more paranoid of me