Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[fireisredsir]

the one point that is notable is how she shifted towards thinking i was town after enchant proposed it

also the vote on SS, i hadn't realized that the wagon on me was mostly gone at that point

[Andante]

whatever yall gotta tell yourselves to justify voting me… I know I’m flipping town, and you seem to know it too.. “well this vote is sus, so that’s the reason I’m voting you”
it’s kinda funny watchingn you fire, like I’m a lot more certain enchant is town, but you keep trying to justify voting me, yet won’t actually vote me till someone else agrees with you

VOTE: Fire

[fireisredsir]

what does enchant have to do with it

[Enchant]

I am running in circles at this point.

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Andante

e-1

[Enchant]

VOTE: Andante

I will regret this i am?

[Aristeia]

mood

[catboi]

Vote Count 3.10

New Radicals (stylized as Иew Radicals) were an American alternative rock band formed in 1997 in Los Angeles, California. The band was centered on frontman Gregg Alexander, who wrote and produced all of their songs. The band's only other permanent member was keyboardist and percussionist Danielle Brisebois.

The band released only one album, 1998's Maybe You've Been Brainwashed Too, an alternative rock album heavily influenced by the rock and soul of the 1970s,[1] containing—among radio-friendly modern rock tracks and love songs—strong criticism of corporate America.[2][3] The band is known for their debut single "You Get What You Give". Despite aspects of the lyrics generating minor controversy for their references to certain celebrities, the song topped the charts in Canada and New Zealand, became a top 5 hit in the United Kingdom, and was in the top 40 in the US.[4][5]

Andante (5):

Something_Smart, Datisi, hutmeil, fireisredsir, Enchant

fireisredsir (3):

Save The Dragons, implosion, Andante

Not Voting (1):

Aristeia

With 9 alive, it took 5 to eliminate.

[catboi]

Andante wound up in harm's way on Day 3.

She was a...

Spoiler:

vanilla townie[/spoiler]

[catboi]

It is now

Night 3

.

The deadline for Night 3 is

July 23

at

1:00 PM EST

. Submit night actions by PM, if applicable.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-07-23 13:00:00)

[catboi]

flip coming shortly

[catboi]

Aristeia did not have the music in her on Night 3.

She was a...

Spoiler:

vanilla townie

[/spoiler]

[catboi]

It is now Day 4.

Vote Count 4.00

Not Voting (7):

Datisi, Enchant, fireisredsir, hutmeil, implosion, Save The Dragons, Something_Smart

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 4 is August 2 at 2:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-02 14:00:00)

[fireisredsir]

my immediate reaction to that is that it points to ss being town but it's possible that the kill was chosen intentionally to produce that reaction?

im not really sure how scum could think ari is the most likely to be mason either way atp

[fireisredsir]

i guess if ari is being treated as locktown anyway by most of the game maybe it doesn't matter if they hit a mason? but still, things could always have turned

[implosion]

Why do you think it points to ss town specifically? Just because scum!SS should have been aiming more for a mason? Why would scum!otherpeople not have been aiming more for a mason?

I could imagine scum thinking she's a mason, or at least that she could be one. She's a good player, could conceivably have replicated her open discussion about what wagons the masons were on as a mason, and above all was the like, single universal townread at that point which just means she could have conceivably been masons with a lot of different people.

My immediate inclination right now is that I want to lim Datisi. I've felt since early on that he was townish early and that if he made it late in the game, he might need to be limmed just out of obligation, but I also separately just think he has a good amount of scum equity right now based on the trajectory of the game. Other people under scrutiny keep doing things that seem like, possibly hard for them to fake, and I don't really remember Datisi doing anything at least recently that felt like "yeah, no way Datisi fakes this". I'm going to look more closely at his ISO today as a first priority. But it is massive so I will be skimming/looking at particular things.

I do want to hear what Datisi's new leading theory is now that Andante has flipped town.

[implosion]

Ari kill also could just make direct sense from Datisi at this point. She's shown skepticism toward him at this point and she's kind of his main competition in terms of controlling the thread.

[implosion]

I've been at least skimming his ISO around Penguin and it feels like it definitely could be a bus. He kind of went very smoothly from "i have no idea about Penguin" to voting Penguin but saying there's other people he'd be willing to vote, to saying he wanted Penguin's blood. I think this is a very directly sensible way to play around Penguin as a scumbuddy d1 as scum; even if Datisi was planning to bus Penguin, there wasn't really any way to justify that bus until around the time he voted Penguin. And then he still is willing to jump to other people, because, well, Penguin still might come back to the thread and effort. But when Penguin just isn't efforting, Datisi commits to the bus and says he actively wants to lim Penguin, both because it's likely the lim is gonna go through that day and he wants credit, and because it's unlikely that keeping Penguin alive is worth as much if he's not efforting in the game.

Can Datisi have that arc as town? Yeah sure, probably. It almost feels like it's so smooth as to be more likely manufactured, to some degree.

[Datisi]

I do want to hear what Datisi's new leading theory is now that Andante has flipped town.

i do not have a new leading theory currently as i have spend approximately 0 time thinking about this game overnight

i will be going over my thoughts on all the slots and the overall gamestate later tonight as i have some free time. there are also a few things i wanna see play out by themselves today before i start doing certain things, stay tuned.

yesterday, you said you want to go over my progression on something which i don't think you did, could you do that if you're not planning to already?

how can the thoughts "datisi is so towny we have to yeet him if he's still alive" and "datisi has very good scum equity, actually" exist at the same time in your mind?

also, where are you getting your ideas about my scumgame? unless i'm misremembering, you've only played with scum!me once, in jk9++, where i had a mediocre day 1 and was basically doing fuckall from day 2 onwards.

[Datisi]

He kind of went very smoothly from "i have no idea about Penguin" to voting Penguin but saying there's other people he'd be willing to vote, to saying he wanted Penguin's blood.

it's almost as if
my scumread on him was increasing
as he was continuously avoiding the thread

i mean i feel like it's obvious i wouldn't play like i did if i were scum with penguin, but this just feels like another "datisi is scum because he is too town" argument

[implosion]

how can the thoughts "datisi is so towny we have to yeet him if he's still alive" and "datisi has very good scum equity, actually" exist at the same time in your mind?

This is a mischaracterization; like I mentioned the first thought was an early thought. Essentially a "Datisi seems town right now, and I expect him to be dead by the late game if he's town." I guess the most relevant nk here is n2, because it makes sense for you to not die last night with thread sentiment turning somewhat against you and n1 VP was townier than you. And maybe scum just had some strong read that Gamma was mason (but apparently not on his partners). But that was the thought.

I also don't really understand how these two thoughts, as you've written them out here, are at odds; someone can think "x is so towny that we need to yeet them if they live to late game" and then in late game think "x has good scum equity, because they've lived this long despite being so broadly townread". Especially when x has such a notoriously good scumgame.

I'm getting the idea that your scumgame is good from the MU tournament thingie, primarily; I don't think I've expressed other specific ideas that I have about your scumgame in particular recently.

I'll look at whatever progression thing I said I'd look at at some point i suppose, i at this moment in time have no memory of what that was

[implosion]

He kind of went very smoothly from "i have no idea about Penguin" to voting Penguin but saying there's other people he'd be willing to vote, to saying he wanted Penguin's blood.

it's almost as if
my scumread on him was increasing
as he was continuously avoiding the thread

i mean i feel like it's obvious i wouldn't play like i did if i were scum with penguin, but this just feels like another "datisi is scum because he is too town" argument

Why is it obvious you wouldn't play like you did if you were scum with penguin?

[fireisredsir]

Why do you think it points to ss town specifically? Just because scum!SS should have been aiming more for a mason? Why would scum!otherpeople not have been aiming more for a mason?

imagine a world where ss is town. scumteam sees ari expressing an unusual level of confidence that ss is a mason in order to protect him from being elimmed. she could be VT making a mason guess. she could be mason shielding her real partner. she could be mason going for a bait play by using someone who isn't her partner.

compare that to a world where ss is scum. ari is expressing an unusual level of confidence that ss is a mason, but now the scumteam is informed that ss is not a mason. that rules out the possibility of ari shielding her partner, and makes it more likely that she's just a VT.

the fact that the scumteam killed ari makes me think that they thought it was at least possible she was a mason. and if they thought she was masons with SS, they have an obvious incentive to kill her instead and leave him alive, since he's then available as a possible yeet

im not like super tied to this chain of logic but it was at least my initial reaction to seeing the flip

it is too nice out to play mafia so ill be back later

[implosion]

mm.

[Datisi]

This is a mischaracterization; like I mentioned the first thought was an early thought. Essentially a "Datisi seems town right now, and I expect him to be dead by the late game if he's town." I guess the most relevant nk here is n2, because it makes sense for you to not die last night with thread sentiment turning somewhat against you and n1 VP was townier than you. And maybe scum just had some strong read that Gamma was mason (but apparently not on his partners). But that was the thought.

well okay, but. if you think it makes sense for me, as either alignment, to not get nightkilled on n3, then kicking in the argument of "datisi is too townie and hasn't been nightkilled yet so is scum" NOW seems arbitrary and kinda... wrong?

I also don't really understand how these two thoughts, as you've written them out here, are at odds; someone can think "x is so towny that we need to yeet them if they live to late game" and then in late game think "x has good scum equity, because they've lived this long despite being so broadly townread". Especially when x has such a notoriously good scumgame.

likewise, is that the only reason why you're calling me scum currently? because from the "based on the trajectory of the game" part of 2665 i got the feeling that there was more to it than just "he not ded"

this is why i feel like you're arguing two things that can't coexist at the same time. is my one and only sin this game that i have been way too townie? if so, why are you bringing up how an ari kill would make sense from me and how i bussed penguin and how everyone else is doing ubertownie things and i'm not and etc etc etc. has the climate of the thread changed in so i'm no longer so townread and it makes sense i'm not dead? then why are you bringing up the "datisi too townie" point?

I'm getting the idea that your scumgame is good from the MU tournament thingie, primarily; I don't think I've expressed other specific ideas that I have about your scumgame in particular recently.

i mean, sure, it's good. but it's not this good. i don't have the stamina for this and i've done so much analysis when it's usually much more easy for me to pick a person and push there and flood the thread with shouty nonsense.

again, how familiar with my game are you? because you are claiming that nothing i'm doing here would be "impossible to fake".