Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[fireisredsir]

i guess one possible reason for an ari kill could be to intentionally dodge masons and preserve the gamestate of people generally thinking someone could be mason, if they aren't and are actually on the maf team

since a mason kill last night probably means the final one claims which means that if there's someone who is maf that has been using mason spec as a shield, that person suddenly loses their shield

and it doesn't actually matter a ton whether you hit a mason last night since ari is not getting elimmed and as long as you hit one tonight you're fine, i think, maybe

idk if that makes sense given my vagueness

basically i see it as masons are in [std, implo, ss, hut]. if datisi and enchant are both vt, then both maf are also in that group. and if maf know that they're both in that group then maybe they don't want the masons to claim because it would mean they aren't able to hide there anymore

and then part of me kinda feels like that fits with ss wanting to be sure we lim outside of that group. but that could also come from him just being town and trying to play mechanically so idk

[fireisredsir]

this speculation also only really comes from me considering "what if datisi town" and idk if im really sold on that atm anyway

his 2772 felt like towny thought process but im not gonna fully trust just on that

[fireisredsir]

the reason i have a hard time seeing 2717 come from town is cause that is like such a useless response that doesn't actually make any attempt to either sort me or change my mind, it's just a cheap gotcha to look to other people like he won the argument. its performative debate tactics that will never actually convince me of anything bc thats not the point, the point is to look right. and that's p scummy

but idk maybe he was just annoyed and didn't care about actually being useful at that time

[Datisi]

doesn't actually make any attempt to either sort me or change my mind

because it was not supposed to do either of those things

like we had a lengthy debate about it yesterday, we came to a disagreement, i don't think there's gonna be anything useful from redoing it

i think your reasons for finding me scummy for that one post are very bad

i don't think they make you scum

i have said what i wanted to say on the subject matter, and i don't think anyone else cares about that conversation anymore either

[Datisi]

i think at this point you want to convince yourself i'm scum and are looking at everything i'm saying through a scummy mindset

as evident by the added note about the possibility of it coming from town

[fireisredsir]

thats kind of a weird take bc i feel the opposite, it's more like i want to convince myself that you're town but there's a few things that are sticking points for me

[fireisredsir]

also i never really got the impression that you thought my reason was very bad? do you disagree that you tend to often use that sort of manipulative tone as scum? your response was more along the lines of "ok yea, but it was justified for me to use it here as town bc x and y'

[Datisi]

fmpov, you're taking a post that was clearly not meant to be sorting or helpful and going "wow, this post is not sorting or helpful!! scummy!!"

i don't think it's fair to say it's trying to look like a won argument, because literally everyone alive is smart enough to go reread our convo to find out what happened, and wouldn't fall for a silly one liner

[fireisredsir]

thats kind of a weird take bc i feel the opposite, it's more like i want to convince myself that you're town but there's a few things that are sticking points for me

like the note at the end doesn't ever come from me trying to see you as scum and idk why you think it would

that's a kind of weak excuse to discredit my own point bc im trying to see both sides even when my gut finds it scummy

[Datisi]

at the time, i thought it was fair that you came up with it, but i explained why i feel like you're misapplying it

the fact that you're bringing it up again and giving it weight is what makes it bad

[fireisredsir]

fmpov, you're taking a post that was clearly not meant to be sorting or helpful and going "wow, this post is not sorting or helpful!! scummy!!"

i don't think it's fair to say it's trying to look like a won argument, because literally everyone alive is smart enough to go reread our convo to find out what happened, and wouldn't fall for a silly one liner

getting a snarky last word in is absolutely a valuable thing for influencing people's perceptions so idk why im not allowed to find the fact that you did that scummy

[Datisi]

hence the annoyed response because i was and am not in the mood to debate a point that's just wrong to me

pedit: i mean, you're allowed?

you're wrong and i feel like it's very possible to see why but

nobody is stopping you

[implosion]

Datisi, what's your opinion on my 2768, both about Enchant (you mentioned you'd found him more town, I'm wondering how much if any paranoia you still have) and that way of viewing the game right now?

[fireisredsir]

i think that you as a player tend to take the tactic of "no, everything i do is towny" as both alignments in response to scumreads and it throws me off a little bc im not really like that, if someone calls out something i did as scummy and i agree that it's objectively kinda scummy even if im town, ill prob be like "ok fair enough"

and i am probably more likely to take the "no thats towny, im town" route as scum so maybe that makes me see it as a sort of scummy thing

it's like slightly dishonest i feel, and my intuition is to see dishonesty and think scum. bc i have a hard time believing that you do think it is "very bad" for me to be giving that reason weight. but maybe thats just your way of saying that it's wrong because it comes to the wrong conclusion. and i feel like the process is still good even if the conclusion is bad. so you responding as if it's all bad feels wrong to me. it feels like if you're town you should be able to see that the process is reasonable. but that could just be your way of responding

and these same points apply to your responses earlier about why you aren't scum. like i and implosion kinda think your reasons were bad. but maybe it's the same thing again, where you are somewhat overinsistent on your own towniness bc doing so improves your chances of winning as either alignment and also makes you harder to catch as scum

basically my point is maybe it's just a playstyle difference thing that im getting hung up over. and ive seen much more of your scumgame so i may have a biased sample that im drawing from

[implosion]

my lizard brain is telling me fire is scum for not paranoia-ing me!scum anymore
jk...
...unless

Why did you have this instinct toward fire, but feel like me paranoia-ing you is scum-indicative? I understand you're claiming to think my trajectory/line of thought isn't consistent or whatever, so that's a difference, but I guess I'm curious what you think my stance toward you

should

be at this point if we're both town.

[Datisi]

Datisi, what's your opinion on my 2768, both about Enchant (you mentioned you'd found him more town, I'm wondering how much if any paranoia you still have) and that way of viewing the game right now?

as little paranoia as i can have, i guess. if we're in yeetlo, i'm probably gonna look at a few of his scumgames again to check whether that really is out of scumrange, but i'm feeling fine townbinning him for now

as for the viewing the game, it's a nice theory find i guess? but i prefer just playing the game normally for now, as the masons are not out, and even if they were, i'd still expect people to re-evaluate in yeetlo and etc

[Datisi]

it's like slightly dishonest i feel, and my intuition is to see dishonesty and think scum. bc i have a hard time believing that you do think it is "very bad" for me to be giving that reason weight. but maybe thats just your way of saying that it's wrong because it comes to the wrong conclusion. and i feel like the process is still good even if the conclusion is bad. so you responding as if it's all bad feels wrong to me. it feels like if you're town you should be able to see that the process is reasonable. but that could just be your way of responding

i'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words in a way that will be clear, but

that reason comes to the wrong conclusion in this game. i have already explained why i feel like it is not applicable to this game and/or that specific post that you singled out. that is what makes it bad in my opinion.

like, i'm not claiming your process itself isn't reasonable from you. i'm claiming that it's faulty for reasons that are obvious from my pov, and as i know my own feelings and alignment, they are hence wrong. aka bad. like idk if i can put it more clearly and my manager is yelling at me so later

[fireisredsir]

how are you at work from like 7am to 10pm

r u ok

blink 3 times if they have you trapped there

[Datisi]

there are two shifts

i worked afternoon yesterday, ran home, got like 5 hours of sleep, and now i'm working morning

yes it's very fun i love my job

also @implo, fire was paranoiaing me at the time where he wasn't exactly getting utility out if it. nobody else was suspicious of me, and even if he decided ti push me, he'd logically have to push hut first, which like. if he faked it for pocketing me, then lol, but it didn't come at a weird time

while i get the feeling you started sussing me at (1) a time where enchant wanted to kill me, (2) right before we got a townflip that i helped push through (and that you didn't seem overly against)

that, coupled with the fact that i feel like i'm finding inconsistencies within your thought process, makes me think yours is more likely fabricated than fire's

i have no clue what town!you read "should" be on me at this point as i don't think we ever made it to late game together (except guardians where i was an ic, so)

[Save The Dragons]

I think I'm starting to see the town fire I expect to see from them.

I think datisis implosion push is a little weird. But at the same time I don't really know how I feel about either implosion or datisi.

I think it's possible I'm overlooking s_s

I think enchant is probably town at this point though I am still wary of some of their actions so maybe not locktown.

[hutmeil]

my point was, if you're making a "wow, datisi has not been killed yet" argument, then saying there's been 6 deaths is really disingenuous, as you're talking about nightkills and you're implying there's a greater number of them than there really has been

Hmmm I guess I'm not that fluent in modern Mafia talk yet. I had the "L" word in mind for day elimination and since the "L" word basically means kill, I was thinking day elimination and night kills are both kills.

You're saying this happens often? Haha

nope, i used to be the village idiot that always lived to yeetlo. nowdays it's basically 50/50 i die night 1 / i make it to endgame.

Hahaha I guess I'm the village idiot now lol.

Hmmmmm ok, this could be my noobness. But if it's not you then who is it lol.

implo? s_s? whoever else exists in this game? you do know that even if it were me, i'd still have a partner, right?

Yes of course. I'm just simplifying and focusing at one at a time. But if I had to guess, it would be STD. He's conveniently lurking in the shadows. I haven't gone to length to check if you + STD are viable scum partners (nor am I sure how exactly to do that lol), I'm just looking at it individually.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm trying not to lurk I just have been busy with work these past few days. I used to not have a job and before that worked from home. Now I go into the office and don't want to be using my computer for mafiascum so I check when I can on my phone

My boss is sick so I've got nothing going on today ama

[Enchant]

I ignoring this game on purpose btw.

[implosion]

for why?

[catboi]

(⌯͒ᵕɪᵕ⌯͒)zzZ