Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Irrelephant11]

Official Vote Count 1.02

this coin is a little dull from passing hands so much, and enjoys Marvel movies

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to push someone through the dimensional barrier.

Coral

(2): scamper, Donempire

Donempire

(2): Datisi, Aristeia

Aristeia

(1): MegAzumarill

Datisi

(1): Ph0enix

Ph0enix

(1): Ausuka

MegAzumarill

(1): Xayah

Xayah

(1): Coral

Not Voting

(0):

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-08-05 07:46:36).

Mod notes:

Using the ly*** word is against site rules. Please use an alternative phrasing, like “eliminate”.

[Donempire]

I didn't think it was cruel, I thought the logic behind the concept of it was funny in a dark irony sort of way. I don't agree with your tactic and therefore I don't think it should be applied to you either despite my suspicion. My point was that the pressure on you was already sufficient without my vote.

I don't see where you get that I was trying to appear open-minded. I recognize that my phrasing in that post was a little awkward, since I had kind of a bunch of thoughts that I didn't really take the time to string together in a cohesive way, but I think that all of the thoughts I expressed land squarely on the side of "suspicious of Dom".

What about that post do you view as buddying?

How was the pressure on me sufficient? There isn't any risk to being put on L-2, not this early.

[Coral]

Sufficient to influence your actions, which is the main goal of pressure: to see how people respond to it. E-1 is more pressure than I have interest in placing on anyone at this point in the game.

[Donempire]

The post itself was fluff, and thats why i didnt like it. You might say there is content because you're clearly suspecting me, but throwing shade and not following it up doesnt constitute a scumread, which i guess you say as well.

So the reason for that post isnt to put pressure on me, because there is no line of inquiry or a scumread, because i had enough pressure on me. But the point for that post isnt to state a read either, because you're not sure what my playstyle means.

Thats why the real purpose of that post is either a fluff nothing post to seem as though you're saying something while not saying it, or its a buddying post.

The former makes sense because you start by saying my actions dont make sense, therefore i might be scum distracting you, then go back to saying my actions dont make sense so you cant get a read on me. Its a nothing burger of a post looking as though you're sring me, while you can take it to mean you were either sring me or you were fencesitting later if asked about it.

I thought this was a buddying post, but i'm not so confident anymore. But i said it could be, so this is how: you believe i am under pressure, you imply that you scumlean me but dont want to vote me yet, implying that you would be willing to listen to my defense if i had one.. Reason i'm not confident anymore is because its pretty half assed if it is an attempt, which takes me back to the post just being filler.

[Donempire]

Sufficient to influence your actions, which is the main goal of pressure: to see how people respond to it. E-1 is more pressure than I have interest in placing on anyone at this point in the game.

I understand your thought process.

[Donempire]

If you want to put pressure on me, i am on L-3 right now.

[Coral]

i think it's fair to call it a sort of filler post. i just had noticed the votes on you and thought it was interesting since I had felt some desire to vote as well, but not enough to be the fourth vote. so I felt some amount of obligation to provide my thoughts on the situation, since i did have thoughts, despite not really coming to a solid conclusion or course of action with them. and i sure am glad i did, because look at how much meaningful discussion it prompted!

i like your response to the pressure for the most part, so i would prefer to stick with my xayah vote, but thanks for the offer!!

Spoiler:

now that was a buddying post

[Ph0enix]

I think Coral made a fair point in one of her posts that I've been focusing too much on Ausuka. Here's some thoughts after rereading:

Datisi, Donempire, Scamper

I'm purposefully putting these three together. Datisi - trying to generate discussion in his first few posts. I understand the point Xayah made in one of her posts that the questions seem "low-effort" in a sense, but I generally think Town is more likely to want to ask questions of any kind than sit back and watch. I like the point he made about Xayah having backed down too easily once she was questioned on it. It's these points that I think are more likely to come from Town than from scum, not the questions he was asking at the beginning, though I think it's normal to start with basic questions at the beginning of the game before you have enough information to make up your mind and take a stance. Not really a fan of the "vibe TR" on Meg, but I've never been a big fan of vibe TRs in general. As for Scamper, his posts seem "solvey" as well and I like the fact that he hasn't tunnel-visioned on anybody, which strikes me as a Town thing to do, cause I believe there was enough information for him to focus on one person, but instead he chose to engage in discussions regarding different players, which shows to me he's trying to solve the game from different angles, which is a good thing. I don't think it's hard to understand Datisi's or Scamper's reasons for disagreeing with Don's idea to push Datisi to E-1. I kinda see Don's point but I think suggesting such a move is too obvious to do as scum, if that makes sense? Like, putting so much pressure on yourself by suggesting such a thing is a suboptimal move from a scum POV, IMO. Nothing else in particular in her ISO stands out to me as AI, so my TR on Don is solely based on that reasoning for now, take that as you will.

Datisi, Donempire, Scamper - Townlean

Ausuka

I don't think much at all of her initial reaction to allegedly have rolled Miller. I didn't agree with her vote on Xayah initially, but in retrospect this may've been due to a misinterpretation on my part cause I didn't get that Xayah was outright SRing Ausuka for her reaction in her first few posts and Xayah later stated herself that that was the case. I still disagree with the reasoning behind the TR on Meg, but I don't think it's AI by itself. I obviously disagree with her vote on me, because, well, because it's me, but I do understand the reasoning behind that one. And for the record, yes, I haven't played the game in a long while, as Ausuka guessed in one of her posts.

Ausuka - null

Aristeia

I had problems with one of her first posts in which she suggested "yeeting" Ausuka, but she explained herself later and it appears it once again comes down to a misinterpretation on my part (By now you probably have guessed that I tend to interpret post content literally and if something is implied but not explicitly stated it may go over my head. That's a me-problem I need to fix, I suppose). I think her pointing out that she has a different "mental model in [her] head about how she would claim Miller if she were a Miller" is fair and didn't think much of it. Otherwise, I don't think I have enough information to make up my mind.

Aristeia - null

Meg

I just don't have much to work with here. @Meg: Do you have any thoughts you want to share about the current state of the game? Any reads, etc.?

Meg - null

Coral

I see her point for not wanting to put Don at E-1 but I do think it's also an easy excuse for not wanting to take a stance, as Don implied. I really don't like the reasoning behind the 180 on Aristeia. The tone in her posts seems genuine, though, and I don't thing she's faking it. Still, I tend to read people by their actions more than by their tone, so:

Coral - scumlean

Xayah

I didn't think much of the accusation against Ausuka early in the game, but given that Xayah later admitted herself that she SR-ed Ausuka for that and that she stands by it, it rubs me the wrong way. I'm tempted to believe that Xayah doubling down on her SR on Ausuka based on Ausuka's first posts is town-indicative because it could be easier from a scum!Xayah POV to just say that it wasn't a push. Though as I mentioned in a previous post, that begs the question if it wasn't meant to be a push, why bother in the first place? So Xayah backing down here wouldn't raise less questions that her doubling down on her Ausuka SR, IMO, so I still think scum!Xayah is a definite possibility. I also echo what Scamper said in 130. The vote on Meg is strange as well.

Xayah - scumlean

I think I'm more confident in my Xayah scumlean as of now.

VOTE: Xayah

[Datisi]

reading along the first half of page 6, i am not sure i get either coral or xayah votes.

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*, and i understand what she was trying to say when she said "tunnelled". maybe it's not the traditional use of that word, but it seemed obvious to me it was meant as "pho is only focusing here" rather than "pho is trying to fuckign murder ausuka". i don't really agree that that's townie, but. the "i changed my mind and ari is town!" did feel a bit ~performative~ to me, but i think performative-scum would've put more effort in than just saying "ye lol idk gut".

also yes i hate xayah misreps of ausuka. but i also don't think they're scummy because i struggle to see what is scum!xayah trying to achieve there. like, she's not pushing ausuka. she keeps insisting ausuka had an overblown reaction despite the entire game telling her otherwise. the only scum motivation i see here is wifom trying to purposefully go against the thread and like idk.

[Datisi]

also i am slightly getting worried about scamper because the fact they're posting against both of these is lowkey concerning to me

yes, i am assuming i am correct in both of them being town, shut up, i am very good at this game.

[Datisi]

Putting me on L-1 isnt cruel, it is what i want.

what do you think you will accomplish in this game by being put at y-1 that you cannot do while at y-2?

i don't get how you're coming to the conclusion that coral is trying to be open minded with you, when the entirety of her post towards you feels negative.

do you have any reads other than coral?

[Datisi]

oh, pho scumleans both coral and xayah too, that's beautiful

Datisi - trying to generate discussion in his first few posts. I understand the point Xayah made in one of her posts that the questions seem "low-effort" in a sense, but I generally think Town is more likely to want to ask questions of any kind than sit back and watch. I like the point he made about Xayah having backed down too easily once she was questioned on it. It's these points that I think are more likely to come from Town than from scum, not the questions he was asking at the beginning, though I think it's normal to start with basic questions at the beginning of the game before you have enough information to make up your mind and take a stance.

i feel like this goes back and forth on whether my early questions are townie or not, in a way that is meant to seem smart and nuanced but is actually not saying much at all.

I kinda see Don's point but I think suggesting such a move is too obvious to do as scum, if that makes sense? Like, putting so much pressure on yourself by suggesting such a thing is a suboptimal move from a scum POV, IMO.

i don't think this is exactly valid - there is a good subset of players, myself included, that hate when a lot of the game isn't voting and the day stagnates, because that usually lets scum get away with doing nothing. so i think there is also a decent subset of players that would've agreed to don's idea of putting people at y-1 early for the content or pressure or whatever. and the possibility of getting a yeet this early would've been great for scum, which is why i see it as a possible scum strategy.

I see her point for not wanting to put Don at E-1 but I do think it's also an easy excuse for not wanting to take a stance, as Don implied.

i feel like coral very much did take a stance and called done scummy? she just didn't vote?

Though as I mentioned in a previous post, that begs the question if it wasn't meant to be a push, why bother in the first place?

expressing scumreads on people without immediately pushing them is a thing? xayah should probably elaborate first if she wants, but i feel like i see reason behind her actions you talk about here

[Datisi]

i should probably check some pho towngames to see if he's like this as town, usually. about to go to work, so i can't do that at the time, but. at some point soon(tm).

[Donempire]

Putting me on L-1 isnt cruel, it is what i want.

what do you think you will accomplish in this game by being put at y-1 that you cannot do while at y-2?

i don't get how you're coming to the conclusion that coral is trying to be open minded with you, when the entirety of her post towards you feels negative.

do you have any reads other than coral?

there's a lolhammer potential at l-1. that alone would be enough pressure, there's also the fact that someone not on the wagon might force a claim. not saying it would happen, but there is a chance, and i've seen it happen before. honestly, i can't be sure of every possibility and thats why i'm gunning for this. being at l-1 is unpredictable, the game being unpredictable causes scum to slip up. town can afford to make mistakes, scum really can't.

coral didnt suspect me outright like you did. she was fence sitty on my alignment, and didnt vote for me. sure it sounds negative, but she said nothing overtly negative about me, accused me or questioned me. its as tame as a suspicion post can get.

[Donempire]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

[Xayah]

I think it felt like a TMI sort of angle.

what's tmi about it

I'm unfamiliar with how much the playerlist is aware with each other, but the way you instantly jumped to their defense felt a tad strange to me. Even if you have a difference in opinion on the matter the way the situation was handled rubbed me the wrong way.

Phoenix's persistence is slightly towny, I think. As scum he would probably recognize that he isn't really getting townread for his approach and may change tactics. I do agree that he sounds a little stiff, but that may just be a personality or writing style trait.

persistence in doing what, exactly?

He's moving things forward but only along one path. If he were trying to look towny by having a lot of content, I'd expect him to be tackling different subjects and angles. His continued arguing what is basically the same point with Ausuka isn't really doing anything to make him look better on a surface level. To me it comes across as a tunneled townie.

This feels like, entirely based on self projection based meta on "I would expect X to do Y but because they're doing Z they're town." If you're always in this kind of mindset it doesn't help you catch mafia it helps people know how to play around you and I can't tell if this kind of thinking is good or not.

[Ph0enix]

I see her point for not wanting to put Don at E-1 but I do think it's also an easy excuse for not wanting to take a stance, as Don implied.

i feel like coral very much did take a stance and called done scummy? she just didn't vote?

Though as I mentioned in a previous post, that begs the question if it wasn't meant to be a push, why bother in the first place?

expressing scumreads on people without immediately pushing them is a thing? xayah should probably elaborate first if she wants, but i feel like i see reason behind her actions you talk about here

1. Idk, it just came off as non-committal.

2. My point was that in a scenario where that's not a part of her reasoning for SRing Ausuka (which I thought at first, before Xayah explicitly stated that that wasn't the case), I don't see a reason pointing it out.

[Xayah]

Also, what I'm saying

did

happen you can legit read the first few posts in the game for yourself. I'm not backing down from the statements I've said either, I still think it's quite a wolfy opening but I don't feel like getting into a battle of words with someone who got

huffy and upset over being called out in a game of mafia for their posting

. It's a waste of my time so I moved onto something I found more pressing. Did the anger make me weaken the scumread? Yeah, because it starts to seem a bit personality based, but I think Datisi's angle on Ausuka isn't W/W and I think it felt like a TMI sort of angle. AKA: If there's a wolf in Ausuka and Datisi's prob prob Datisi atm.

I also don't think Meg/Other anime A name are W/W don't have much stock in their statements alone though besides "vibes"

i greatly disagree with both your earlier characterizion of ausuka and this one - she made 2 very short posts that didn't say much at all and you called it "overblown", now you accuse her of being "huffy and upset" because she (rightly imo) pushed back against you for saying that, but again the scale of the response is really not at all what you're describing here...

it just feels incredibly misrep-y

It isn't something that can even be called a misrep because what I'm saying is a subjective point not an objective point. You don't have to agree with what I'm saying for me to still believe it to be true. Focusing on my use of adjectives to describe the situation is not important what so ever. What's important is if you think I am misreping this player on purpose or not to suit an argument. Trying to just point out stuff like this feels like useless shading instead of trying to help the thread.

I'd wagon Xayah. The misreps I go back and forth on, it seems like something that will easily get called out. But 101 and 107 felt weird to me. There's a very strange level of hedge in the way she expresses her read in those posts and it feels awkward.

VOTE: Xayah

What's wrong with hedge?

scamper is precious

Can you give me any sort of readslist or a real read on anyone that isn't 3 posts calling them uwu cute

This post is important

I would probably be switching my vote to Don here but I think they're at E-2 already and it seems a little twisted to put them at E-1 for suggesting that we put someone else at E-1. It does feel like they're kind of all over the place and I struggle to see a consistent town mindset. That makes me think they could be intentionally trying to look like the town they describe as "playing however they want". The issue is that I don't understand the motivations behind anything they're doing, so it just feels random for the sake of chaos.

Here is an attempt to soft buddy me. Coral knows i am under fire, and by saying they wont vote for me theres an attempt here. Of course by saying they're still suspicious of me there is no concrete stance taken here. What they are doing is to signal to me "everyone suspects you, but i can be open minded". And as scum, they know i'm town, and would want to leave a positive impression on me without going too hard on buddying.

I don't know if I agree with this being the exact line of logic that Coral is trying to do if wolf I believe that you do. I think Corals play has been very projective based and had very little natural solving in it but the fact most of the thread seems to agree gives me slight pause.

[Xayah]

I feel fine enough about most people in the thread that they've given me enough to work with minus Meg and Ari so I will continue voting them until further notice

[scamper]

That's because it kind of was! I felt a town vibe first and then tried to figure out where it was coming from after. I'm not terribly convinced it was a great reason, but it was fun to explore!

As town my mind is often a jumble of mixed-up thoughts and feelings. As scum I take care to express my thoughts clearly, which is easy to do because they're fake, and have clean and planned-out progressions. I wouldn't ever have reason to express a thought that I wasn't already confident I could state in a cohesive way and back up later, unless maybe put on the spot by pressure and I need to come up with a read on a partner. I think that's one of my weaknesses.

ok....i'm not really sure this changes my view, though

[scamper]

reading along the first half of page 6, i am not sure i get either coral or xayah votes.

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*, and i understand what she was trying to say when she said "tunnelled". maybe it's not the traditional use of that word, but it seemed obvious to me it was meant as "pho is only focusing here" rather than "pho is trying to fuckign murder ausuka". i don't really agree that that's townie, but. the "i changed my mind and ari is town!" did feel a bit ~performative~ to me, but i think performative-scum would've put more effort in than just saying "ye lol idk gut".

also yes i hate xayah misreps of ausuka. but i also don't think they're scummy because i struggle to see what is scum!xayah trying to achieve there. like, she's not pushing ausuka. she keeps insisting ausuka had an overblown reaction despite the entire game telling her otherwise. the only scum motivation i see here is wifom trying to purposefully go against the thread and like idk.

also i am slightly getting worried about scamper because the fact they're posting against both of these is lowkey concerning to me

yes, i am assuming i am correct in both of them being town, shut up, i am very good at this game.

well i think the reasons you have for townreading both of them feel a bit contrived and i'm not sure why i should be thinking the same way as you. idk, i'm suspicious of like half the game right now

[Aristeia]

I feel fine enough about most people in the thread that they've given me enough to work with minus Meg and Ari so I will continue voting them until further notice

I am not sure this method of scumhunting is very fruitful

[scamper]

i should probably check some pho towngames to see if he's like this as town, usually. about to go to work, so i can't do that at the time, but. at some point soon(tm).

admittedly the readlist from phoenix doesn't do a whole lot for me, but i'm not sure what to be looking for in a list on page 7...

[scamper]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

i dont know what you mean by "not bringing up new points", i feel like i've had original thoughts, and i dont think ive been playing it particularly safe with how ive been approaching people. you can call it "reactionary" ig, but that's just bcause i prefer to wait and observe until something catches my attention

[MegAzumarill]

Don strikes me as... reserved in a way.
I don't think it is necessarily AI but I do find it noteworthy.

I think Coral is town for a number of reasons. The 180 on aristeia *could* be scum-motivated sure. But I think it rather is more indicitive of a town move reconsidering the slot.
Datisi is really inquisitive, not shy to share and overall playing pretty solidly towny.
I feel like the way Ausuka has been interacting with other people is Town indicative. I feel like there's plenty to call the slot town regardless of claim.

scamper is meh. Not really having anyhing pointing strongly in either direction.

Aristeia felt manipulative in the post I had previously addressed and in some surrounding ones which is a res flag for me. Sure not much has happened since then but then again they haven't posted much since then either.