Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Ausuka]

Yeah oops you might want to rub your mind of that

I should have labelled the spoiler, relly can you do that sorry

[Ausuka]

It's not like a major spoiler I think dw

[Donempire]

Dont worry its fine, i am a master at forgetting things ever since i had to forget everything i learned in high school literature

[Ausuka]

Mood

[Donempire]

meg v scamper seems to like leak heavily into playstyle issues. i think i get the vibes they genuinely believe what they're saying and are frustrated at the other which is probably+town for both, I was townreading meg anyway

this is probably more likely to be town scamper on balance, they're a difficult read but them getting scrappy seems like it would be more likely to be town them Vs them putting on a clean performance for the town, if that makes sense

To add to this, both of their pushes are logical. Scamper has been incredibly vague in his postings ever since the game began, and mostly comes onto the thread to throw shade at a few people he scumreads. Shading and being vague help scum inadverdently, since it keeps things murky.

Vice versa, meg doesnt seem to follow through on any cases he makes, which you can also construe as helping scum.

Their pushes arent illogical, but i do think they are surface value. Scamper does throw shade and is vague, but that is because of uncertainty in his reads that only town would have. Yes, he doesnt push anyone as hard as we might like him to but thats because he is prodding to figure out everyone, rather than hoping for a easy death note target. Comes back to your point about this being a discussion about playstyles rather than alignment. So even if scamper might seem like hes trying to avoid responsibility, his posts have been inquisitive in nature.

Meg is in a similar situation to scamper. They dont push anyone especially hard, and are more focused on not letting tiny details get by. You can see it in his back and forth with ari, while everyone was keen to just townread her and move on meg was still prodding her in order to find information even though she was pretty volatile at the time, which i dont see scum subjecting themselves to that for no reason.

Both of them are most likely town, not in spite of their pushes on each other but because of it. They are misconstruing game advancing moves as scummy because it doesnt mesh with their respective playstyle.

[Donempire]

don answe my quesiton plese

what question

[Datisi]

But it shouldnt matter because after his last few posts i am more and more leaning town on datisi.

why

@don

@don

[Ausuka]

You have to call them done or they won't answer you

[Donempire]

Also also, my last few posts specifically the ones calling for ausukas head were emotional votes, since i got pretty pissed i didnt get to make a case on ari after she replaced out, so heres my proposition.
I am still super suspicious of gammas slot, and i believe in my theory of one scum in {dat, ausuka, ari} but, since gamma hasnt given me enough content to read him by i will postpone this theory until at least the next day so i can make a concrete read on his slot, and maybe expand on it by including my ari read.
For today, i want to propose that we wagon galron and force a claim out of him. I said i dont want to lim in the above 3, i dont propose myself, i townread meg and scamper, so that leaves three, {galron, xayah, coral}
Of the three, from what i remember the one i found most fishy is galron. I think both xayah and coral had redeeming factors, probably xayah is more townier than coral, but i dont want to say anything before i iso them, which i will do right now.
So, i wanna ask you what are your reads on these 3 slots i mentioned, do you have anything you wanna add?

Removed the L word - Irrelephant

[Ausuka]

I mostly agree with 779 except for their descriptions of scamper and Meg's play

Scamper I guess it's fair to say they're not playing the most aggressively but I'm not sure there's much merit in the push that they're obstructing the flow of information of the town, that seems bogus and if GE is town as seems likely scamper was actively helpful in defusing the conflict

On the other hand I think Meg's play around Ari really wasn't that bad tbh. I mean ari literally said she didn't care about logic and only cared about being right, showing no interest in the obvious link between reasoning and being right, but Meg is in the wrong for not responding immediately to the logical argument Ari made when she was going like aggressive mode against Meg? Maybe I'm just biased against Ari in the context of this game but still. I think saying meg doesn't push anyone especially hard is just wrong, arguably they got here by pushing people too hard.

Idk if this post is helpful and maybe I'm misunderstanding some things but hopefully it helps to show my thought process or something at least. I hope so otherwise the time I spent writing it was pointless

[Ausuka]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

[Datisi]

i didnt get to make a case on ari

you can absolutely still make the case... i don't even know why you're scumreading her

[Datisi]

like i'm not saying that to sort her slot because i am very unlikely to be convinced by it, but this is like the second case you said you were gonna make and then didn't and i am annoyed

[Ausuka]

I equally feel that the point about active players or whatever is a misdirection

I already had this discussion with datisi earlier - I said I thought Ari was scum because she dragged the thread in a stagnant direction by pushing the comparison of her play to Xayah's. Datisi agreed this was not productive but said that with knowledge of Ari this is something she could do as town. Like, as far as I'm concerned this is based on a discussion that was already resolved. I think if you look at my posts and Datisi's it is hard to argue we haven't been trying to drag the game forward. If I had it my way we would've been pushing galron to e 1 from the start.

Pedit: I think it's the third actually

[Donempire]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

[Datisi]

yeah, i just realized he also said he was gonna make a case on you too lol

i am uh. not sure where "if the active people didn't have scum in it, this game would've been moving forward" because WHAT are we supposed to do? say we're all town, galron is scum, and we think galron is scum. he's not here. we can chat about other slots, but we simply cannot move forward until he appears. how is that our fault?

i am oversimplifying here but this feels like an important angle that don is overlooking for ??? reasons

i don't know if i find this scummy or if i'm just annoyed, i'll check some of his completed towngames before making a definite call

[Datisi]

done, is there a reason why you seem chronically avoiding my 653?

[Ausuka]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

Because in general outliers are much rarer than non outliers? Nothing is impossible but this is a game of probability

At the very least I think it shows her behaviour isn't actively scum indicative

[Donempire]

I equally feel that the point about active players or whatever is a misdirection

I already had this discussion with datisi earlier - I said I thought Ari was scum because she dragged the thread in a stagnant direction by pushing the comparison of her play to Xayah's. Datisi agreed this was not productive but said that with knowledge of Ari this is something she could do as town. Like, as far as I'm concerned this is based on a discussion that was already resolved. I think if you look at my posts and Datisi's it is hard to argue we haven't been trying to drag the game forward. If I had it my way we would've been pushing galron to e 1 from the start.

Pedit: I think it's the third actually

Yup, its the third

yeah, i just realized he also said he was gonna make a case on you too lol

i am uh. not sure where "if the active people didn't have scum in it, this game would've been moving forward" because WHAT are we supposed to do? say we're all town, galron is scum, and we think galron is scum. he's not here. we can chat about other slots, but we simply cannot move forward until he appears. how is that our fault?

You know that i'm not talking about what you are doing right now, right? Back when the game had 200 posts there was nothing being done, the players who were engaging the conversation the most were guys like scamper who were going in and out. Now if you asked me back then, i would have pinned all 3 of you as scum. Now that i realize the game was going slow because we fucked up going out of RVS somehow, and because i townlean both you and ausuka, that theory dimmed out a little, but i still believe there was a saboteur who was making leaving RVS harder than it should have been, and it would make sense it was one of the active players, ala Ari in this instance.

[Donempire]

done, is there a reason why you seem chronically avoiding my 653?

Yes

[Datisi]

I did a skim through and I'm okay with limming donempire at this point.

i dont understand why this is popping in like done is actually on y-1 or about to be yeeted or whatever

[Datisi]

I did a skim through and I'm okay with limming donempire at this point.

i dont understand why this is popping in like done is actually on y-1 or about to be yeeted or whatever

[Datisi]

done, is there a reason why you seem chronically avoiding my 653?

Yes

why tho

[Datisi]

also this hell of a hangover is making me not wanna read the scamper/meg fight so let me know if there's anything important in there

or don't, idc

[Donempire]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

Because in general outliers are much rarer than non outliers? Nothing is impossible but this is a game of probability

At the very least I think it shows her behaviour isn't actively scum indicative

I guess. I'll think about it