Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Ausuka]

wait omg am I finally going to get to see the reads triangle

[Aristeia]

i s2g if Ausuka gets closer to Dats than I do on her first reads triangle I will be so mad

[Ydrasse]

I in towniest corner or datisi wolf

[Aristeia]

[Ausuka]

Please don't strangle me

[Ydrasse]

[Ausuka]

Also uh I went back to look at Firs' posting about the eiralox wagon but that is maybe silly because not much time has passed and he hasn't said anything yet

BUT I read the rest of his iso and I'm not really a fan?? I feel like there's a theme where he like seems to emphasize how half hearted he is about everything? I liked him pressuring Ari to some extent but he kept being like "this could definitely be town" and generally felt really hesitant? And I think fb and eiralox are both sort of easy wagons to be on that Feel Like they are doing things but actually I don't think they are really doing things. I don't have that massive of a problem with these in isolation but doing all three in succession feels suspicious - his play feels careful in a way that pings me

[GuiltyLion]

i partly explained it, but it's the idea that scum sees everything their buddy does as scummy, and him including the "here baltar is joking about shitfights" point kinda feels like that tmi. because adding that doesn't actually help his later "baltar is being lamist" point, and i feel like he should've like, known that.

I think it gives context rather than makes the point

[Datisi]

why are you voting him then

I'm sheeping you silly

do you have any thoughts on what me and/or scamper wrote about him

[GuiltyLion]

like specifically, he's the one who brought up the idea of a shitfight with Nero to begin with. Then when Nero was like "actually why aren't you fighting with me", his response was "cause that's what I would do if I were scum, and I'm not scum". idk if I'm effectively communicating the point, but it just feels like comments weren't meant to do anything other than imply that his play is town

[Aristeia]

do you have any thoughts on what me and/or scamper wrote about him

I don't think it's like a slam dunk but I am interested in seeing where this goes

[Aristeia]

I feel like the central thread of 1291 is that Relly's playstyle is very surface level and he can fit it into a narrative where it's done as scum to fit into the game smoothly and push scum narratives but like it very easily could just be how Relly plays the game?

Like sure the reads might be given too easily but I don't think those are very entrenched reads to begin with? He could just be casually throwing things around and changing his mind from here to there and being very touch and go with everything because it's fun to him? Like the overall game state feels very breezy light and fun and I can see Relly!town just deciding to play that way.

[Aristeia]

reading through scamper's 1291, at least the parts that relate to irrel's read on me, i feel like he's put a lot of what i was vaguely feeling into words. because what i have been feeling about irrel's read on me is that it doesn't interally *make sense*. like, he said he was kind of townreading me for not being ~extra~, but then later calls me out for not being happy. he completely misunderstands my firebringer push. and even after i call out these things, which are very easy to call out, he goes "oh no, i'm not scumreading datisi anymore... no ahah wait i am!" like how is me doing those things supposed to be scum-indicative? the only explanation i can think of is that irrel thinks i'm *completely incapable* as a town player, but i don't feel like that's a reasonable thought for anyone to have?

like, it feels like he's tryign to give off an appearance of a tunnelled townie, but... he doesn't actually have good reasons to tunnell me.

if relly is town, I would expect him to think a lot/tunnel about you due to the history of having played his last game with scum!you and being utterly snowed by you?

He also just modded a game where scum you ended up winning at endgame carrying a teammate who didnt even play.

"revenge" or "getting it right this time" is a p powerful motivator.

if he's scum does he replicate this? I dunno i've never seen him play scum but I guess it'd be something he could think of to replicate.

his read on you doesn't make sense but he has a reason to fear scum!you from watching you win and you should know sometimes when you see someone play a good scum game and win, you then play a game with them and suddenly every freaking thing they do ends up looking "scummy" to you. wink wink wink

[scamper]

do you have any thoughts on what me and/or scamper wrote about him

I don't think it's like a slam dunk but I am interested in seeing where this goes

to be clear i dont really think its a slam dunk either (im at like 40-50% confidence) and i mite have taken the wrong approach by just throwing the book at him rather than questioning him on the reads i found odd, but the game felt too static at that moment in time and i wasnt really satisfied with the leading wagons/pushes so i wanted to provide a different direction

[fireisredsir]

Also uh I went back to look at Firs' posting about the eiralox wagon but that is maybe silly because not much time has passed and he hasn't said anything yet

BUT I read the rest of his iso and I'm not really a fan?? I feel like there's a theme where he like seems to emphasize how half hearted he is about everything? I liked him pressuring Ari to some extent but he kept being like "this could definitely be town" and generally felt really hesitant? And I think fb and eiralox are both sort of easy wagons to be on that Feel Like they are doing things but actually I don't think they are really doing things. I don't have that massive of a problem with these in isolation but doing all three in succession feels suspicious - his play feels careful in a way that pings me

hi idk i just have a short attention span and get bored of d1s cause everything feels too mushy to me and every possibility feels like it's still possible

just kinda feels like everyone is sitting in a circle talking about their reads and it doesn't feel like anything is going anywhere

i don't feel like ive learned much necessarily from the eiralox wagon yet but maybe the info is useful later. i don't really expect it to be useful immediately. maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

i kinda just wanna yeet people and see some flips

as scum i can pretend to solve forever and work on positioning myself and my team and getting townread and there's always things to DO

as town sometimes i feel like maybe it's actually best for me to just not talk so much. im also sensitive to people wanting a readable game and not wanting to spam too much

but ill do some more today ig

[scamper]

his read on you doesn't make sense but he has a reason to fear scum!you from watching you win and you should know sometimes when you see someone play a good scum game and win, you then play a game with them and suddenly every freaking thing they do ends up looking "scummy" to you. wink wink wink

this is understandable but it doesnt really come thru in how hes talking about dats

[GuiltyLion]

maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

is that dependent on Eiralox's alignment at all?

[Aristeia]

his read on you doesn't make sense but he has a reason to fear scum!you from watching you win and you should know sometimes when you see someone play a good scum game and win, you then play a game with them and suddenly every freaking thing they do ends up looking "scummy" to you. wink wink wink

this is understandable but it doesnt really come thru in how hes talking about dats

yea that's a fair point but I do rather enjoy his playstyle its so refreshing compared to people who think they absolutely must be right when they tunnel someone

[fireisredsir]

maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

is that dependent on Eiralox's alignment at all?

i thought about conditioning it but i think it would apply either way

for me it's less about how you were willing to push there and more about how in 1224 i was aware of how i was kinda putting myself in a vulnerable position and like... begging for some kind stranger to come by and help me out and hear my plea

and that's the kind of time where scum often like to pocket me

but also town can reach out in that situation too so it's not like anything major but it is something that i took note of. and i would think that even if eiralox is scum, their partners would be hesitant to blatantly ignore someone pushing them bc that could look bad

[GuiltyLion]

yeh that makes sense, thanks

what do you think you want to do with the wagon now that Eiralox replaced out? part of me finds that extra suspicious and wants to double down on it, but at the same time it feels like it might start now contributing to a stale gamestate and I don't think I wanna join the Irrelephant one

[Ausuka]

Also uh I went back to look at Firs' posting about the eiralox wagon but that is maybe silly because not much time has passed and he hasn't said anything yet

BUT I read the rest of his iso and I'm not really a fan?? I feel like there's a theme where he like seems to emphasize how half hearted he is about everything? I liked him pressuring Ari to some extent but he kept being like "this could definitely be town" and generally felt really hesitant? And I think fb and eiralox are both sort of easy wagons to be on that Feel Like they are doing things but actually I don't think they are really doing things. I don't have that massive of a problem with these in isolation but doing all three in succession feels suspicious - his play feels careful in a way that pings me

hi idk i just have a short attention span and get bored of d1s cause everything feels too mushy to me and every possibility feels like it's still possible

just kinda feels like everyone is sitting in a circle talking about their reads and it doesn't feel like anything is going anywhere

i don't feel like ive learned much necessarily from the eiralox wagon yet but maybe the info is useful later. i don't really expect it to be useful immediately. maybe some slight GL and irrel suspicion, idk

i kinda just wanna yeet people and see some flips

as scum i can pretend to solve forever and work on positioning myself and my team and getting townread and there's always things to DO

as town sometimes i feel like maybe it's actually best for me to just not talk so much. im also sensitive to people wanting a readable game and not wanting to spam too much

but ill do some more today ig

i mean. that's true to an extent?? But I feel like pushing on firebringer and eiralox looks like you're doing something. Like, idk how to describe it but the way you were talking to eiralox felt like it creates that appearance, of positioning which makes you townread. If eiralox is town, I think it's intuitive to expect him to give a townread to the person questioning him, for example. In contrast just trying to make a push on an active player has pretty high risk because, as you said, they can often rip your arguments apart and call you scum for it. so I think I could see you playing this way as scum?

[Ausuka]

the replace out doesn't feel AI to me and not sure why it would be

[fireisredsir]

ok so on the irrel case

i do agree with a good amount of it. mostly the bits about the way he interacts with people and how he can kind of back off suspicion at times or feel like he's trying to buddy people and it just feels fake. and i felt those things too

but the thing is that those are like exactly the things i felt from him when he was town and i got pretty tunneled on him. i was reading every post he made and just like had a gut reaction to it that it was fake and kinda slimy, in the same way here

so i feel like i should probably try to ignore those feelings here bc they're probably not a good metric for me at least to judge irrel's alignment

the other points about trying to look towny and whatnot are fine i guess but idk its not very convincing to me that it means he's scum

[GuiltyLion]

the replace out doesn't feel AI to me and not sure why it would be

I think replace outs are slightly +scum in general and I could see someone who doesn't care playing mafia alignment just deciding to nope out at this point, especially if they feel they're hindering their team

can also come from town obviously but it's certainly not something that makes me think more likely town

[Datisi]

what do you think you want to do with the wagon now that Eiralox replaced out? part of me finds that extra suspicious and wants to double down on it, but at the same time it feels like it might start now contributing to a stale gamestate and I don't think I wanna join the Irrelephant one

have you considered starting a new wagon