Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Ausuka]

That's fine too

[Aristeia]

i think that ari likes to be in control of things as scum and push for the things she wants. i think that it would be somewhat unnatural for her to voluntarily step back and take on more of a support/observing role, and she would only do it if she felt like it would get her somewhere or in order to attempt to manipulate someone, or to specifically break that expectation

as town she has motivation to do that though because of the reasons she's stated already

it's possible that as scum who started this game prior to the other one finishing, knowing there would be some overlap in players, she could have tried to go for a different approach here to make the differences clear. i wouldn't want to rule that out, but i don't think it's most likely

also another thing about this reasoning - I think more than one person said this.[Dats and GL Too?]

if you're using how I played in Turing and a comparison and saying that because I'm very good at wielding control as scum that I would be town for

not wielding control

I don't think it's great because;

The key difference between this game and Turing - that setup is not a setup where scum can deepwolf and win whereas this one is.

In Turing if three scum get voted out - the game is over, it doesn't matter how deep one deepwolf gets into the townblock, if you lose three teammates to elimination, you lose the game. By necessity I need to have influence and control things to win, I can't just become very townread and win.

Also the scenarios where you need to influence things to your side will always happen, scum will come up for elimination, it's p much inevitable.

This game does not have that setup - it's open in terms of how you want to play, I can fade into background and have no real threats, scum can never come up for elimination, etc. The game is entirely different and I kind of think you and Datisi would realize this because you're both very smart people and you both understand how strategy works so it feels that read of me is pretty ????

[Irrelephant11]

it's d1 what vca is there to do besides my own wagon?

yes? the fact that you didn't mention it at all is odd?

i'm not too interested in pushing you out d1, i think. at least not right now. so keep playing if you're town, i'll find you

I admit I'm curious now if there's anything to see...

Spoiler: dont look at my vca it hasnt gotten dressed yet

Eiralox (4): humaneatingmonkey, fireisredsir,

Irrelephant11

, Gamma Emerald

Irrelephant11

(4): scamper, Datisi, Nero Cain, Aristeia
Firebringer (2): Ydrasse, VP Baltar
GuiltyLion (2): skitter30, DeasVail
VP Baltar (2): GuiltyLion, Ausuka
skitter30 (1): Firebringer
Not voting (5): ConManMick, marcistar, xofelf, Dunnstral, Eiralox
Day 1 will end in [Deadline is paused at 8 days and 4 hours]. With 20 alive, 11 is needed to lim and 10 to no lim.
[/b]

This is actually a mildly interesting votecount. If Eiraloxslot is town then there's probably 2-3 scum in {humaneatingmonkey, fireisredsir, Gamma Emerald, scamper, Datisi, Nero Cain, Aristeia, ConManMick, marcistar, xofelf, Dunnstral, Eiralox} and 1-2 in {Ydrasse, VP Baltar, skitter30, DeasVail, GuiltyLion, Ausuka, Firebringer}. If eiraloxslot is scum then there's probably maximum 1 scum in {HEM, fireisredsir, Gamma}

This was fun but basically pointless at 20p, pre-flip, and only from my POV. I kinda regret doing it because it was basically just busywork but since I did it feels dumb to not post it ig

[obscure]

a lot of things kinda blurring together for me around pages

21-25

, thoughts not changing for me at this point (i may need to start doing individual ISOs), but it did make me think of marci. i'm thinking maybe marci was trying to pocket me in 1698. because i found myself subconsciously liking them a bit, but then fireisred made the comment about making sure i was on the watch for people pocketing me. which, of course my first thought was "i would never let that happen" but then i'm like "oh wait.." so hmm.

[scamper]

*cracks knuckles*

ready to dive in today, only like, 10 extra pages behind!

since i forgot to give a proper greeting yesterday: hi obscure, welcome to MS! i hope u enjoy the game (:

this is probably a challenging game to start off with since its a large pl/high volume, lmk if u have any questions abt stuff

ooc, what are the games u play irl usually like?

@scamper thank you, i appreciate it! i like that i have a lot of time to catch up at the very least. i sort of like the.. lower intensity vibe? haha

for the irl games, we usually have a "captain/host" who will assign people roles (sometimes we'll just draw roles), then there will also be a cop, doctor, then just regular villagers. there's phases (day/night) but it's like, shutting your eyes during the night, during the day basically collectively deciding who we think is mafia. we don't play it super strictly, it's just for fun, but i love it

cool, cool

i recommend checking the Normal_Game page to get an idea of the roles that will be in this game, the forum description says the roles are basic but sometimes they get kind of complicated imo

do u have a usual strategy for how u play games as town/scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

scamper
Nero Cain
fireisredsir
Aristeia

Ausuka
Datisi
xofelf
DeasVail

marcistar
VP Balter
Frogsterking
Dannflor
obscure
humaneatingmonkey
Gamma Emerald

Irrelephant11
GuiltyLion


ConManMick
Firebringer

~

my reads have shifted around a lot and a lot of the game i feel is in a place where its like "could go either way" but the middle chunk there is either i've had reasoning to see the person as both alignments or not enough info to discern lol

my wolfleans are very much vibe based and hard to verbalize. it's sort of just "this posting feels slimy to me, i guess it's a tone thing?"

a lot of people moved down a few bumped up

i havent really made sense of the wagons moving around yet (it feels like they havent a lot) but thats a d2 thing which should clear up some

feel more solid about townreads but even then confidence is hand wiggle

{ydrasse, ausuka, gamma emerald}
{frogsterking, marcistar, nero cain}
{aristeia, firebringer}
{deasvail, xofelf, guiltylion, datisi}

{hem, fireisredsir, obscure, vp baltar, dannflor}

{conmanmick, irrelephant}

i doubt my townreads are all perfect, because its near impossible to have perfect reads on day 1 of a 20 player game, and i doubt i managed to get the entire scumteam in 7 names. usually theres someone i end up being overly generous with my read, usually somewhere in the middle of my townreads. but i feel okay-ish with where im at for mid d1 of a large game.

I don't really get the scumreads on CMM but I do not townread him either

[obscure]

*cracks knuckles*

ready to dive in today, only like, 10 extra pages behind!

since i forgot to give a proper greeting yesterday: hi obscure, welcome to MS! i hope u enjoy the game (:

this is probably a challenging game to start off with since its a large pl/high volume, lmk if u have any questions abt stuff

ooc, what are the games u play irl usually like?

@scamper thank you, i appreciate it! i like that i have a lot of time to catch up at the very least. i sort of like the.. lower intensity vibe? haha

for the irl games, we usually have a "captain/host" who will assign people roles (sometimes we'll just draw roles), then there will also be a cop, doctor, then just regular villagers. there's phases (day/night) but it's like, shutting your eyes during the night, during the day basically collectively deciding who we think is mafia. we don't play it super strictly, it's just for fun, but i love it

cool, cool

i recommend checking the Normal_Game page to get an idea of the roles that will be in this game, the forum description says the roles are basic but sometimes they get kind of complicated imo

do u have a usual strategy for how u play games as town/scum?

thank you!

when i'm town i'll try to look for signs people are lying, which is usually subtle things and definitely there's some body language tells that wouldn't apply here. but usually when people are talking about their alignment/thoughts on the game/etc in a way that feels too detailed to be invented i see it as a towntell. as scum i try to fool people into thinking i'm town by acting like one of the other townies and saying things i feel like townies would say. i don't have enough experience to have any sort of a complex strategy on either of those fronts, though for mafia specifically. =p

[fireisredsir]

for fire:


so I thought it didn't make a lot of sense for you to push me to sort me in this game because I don't think anyone's really caught me as scum by wagoning me.

I don't think you would think of me as a scum player who can be sorted with pressure or solved with pressure.

in fact it's almost dangerous in a way to push scum me because I am fairly decent at looking

good

and gaining thread control by getting people to vote for me I think.

and this is something you're

aware of

because you stated you didn't want to give me reasoning for the push because you are worried scum me can just judo flip you and kill you easily because ripping apart bad cases is very easy for me and people here have seen me do it as town to scum and mercilessly kill them. You would be essentially giving me the tools to kill you if I was scum with very little gain or upside for yourself. You can't get me to be yeeted without providing very solid reasoning and you don't have the reasoning or ammo to put into the push.

So why would you push me here if you suspect I'm scum? I actually kind of think you wouldn't if you thought I was scum because you simply don't have the thread influence or reasoning to make a push that is likely to kill me and if you're not likely to kill me then why do I even care? You're basically giving me free weapons and making me look better atp.

what does make sense to me is you are feeling uneasy about your solution in the Turing Test and you want to get a better read of me in that game but

you can't talk to me in that game anymore

so you decide to establish a baseline for me and compare.

How do you establish the baseline? well you push me here and see how I react to a suspicion and try to compare with when you called me scum for a brief moment in that game and see if there's any divergence.

but this method only makes sense to do if you know I'm town here and you're testing for a reaction to compare where you know my actual alignment - it doesn't help you if you

don't know my alignment in this game

because how is the comparison even supposed to work?

Another point that fit into the theory is when GuiltyLion asked you something along the lines of "hey I thought Ari was way scummier in this game than Turing LOL" and you kind of replied with a flat yea.

I feel like the way he talked with you was kind of a spontaneous happy uninformed way while your response was notably flat and felt evasive as if you wanted to hide the line of thought between those two games because you can't say to him well I was comparing her play here to that game to evaluate whether she's scum in that game because it would give away that you know what my alignment in this game is.


Anyway that was the thread that's been going through my head but I recognize it's not like very good reasoning and probably not what happened here regardless of your alignment and i'm just hoping you get to like be closer to your town game in that game and carry me to a win here because I like being carried <3

i think this does mostly make sense as a thought process but it relies on a few wrong assumptions

1) i don't have a lot of expectations for how best to find you as scum or how to sort/solve you. i have some expectations of what you would be like as a scum player, and what your goals would be, but basically none about how to get you eliminated if i've found you. my first instinct would be to do exactly what i did. which maybe is a bad approach. it probably is!

2) i am not very good at holding my cards close to my chest or keeping secret scumreads. if i have a scumread, i will almost always at least hint at it bc i want to get my thoughts out there and bc i want to see how the person will respond. sometimes that's a bad idea (i think i was a little too open about my reads in turing test and that made me easier to play around. i was bad at looking like a possible seer or whatever they were called in chromavalon, and bad at looking like a possible mason in frenemies. it's just something im not that good at)

3) i have a lot of examples of your townplay. ive played with you a lot and almost every time you've been town. ive also suspected you early in several of those. i don't know why i would have any reason to feel a need to establish a baseline for you here if i knew you were town here. the baseline that i was missing is your scumplay. so you might be kind of right actually that the overlap in games did have an effect (it wasn't really something i was actively thinking about but it might have impacted me?), but if there was then it was the other way around: i might have been more willing to poke you here when i thought you were scum bc if i could be confident in that read it would give me a better sense of what your scumplay looks like

4) my response to GL was that way bc at the time i was kinda suspicious of him lol, and i was still kinda musing on the situation due to the new info and didn't really feel like sharing my whole thought process with him immediately. if i wanted to fake mirror tone with him i would be very capable of that, i did it with andante all of invictus.

[obscure]

i still want to continue reading the whole game but i kind of feel like i'm not absorbing information as well this way

can someone give me three people to ISO instead? preferably candidates to be eliminated.

[Datisi]

it's open in terms of how you want to play, I can fade into background and have no real threats, scum can never come up for elimination, etc.

i believe i specifically called this out as a reason that my townread on you is not that strong from that point

[fireisredsir]

i think that ari likes to be in control of things as scum and push for the things she wants. i think that it would be somewhat unnatural for her to voluntarily step back and take on more of a support/observing role, and she would only do it if she felt like it would get her somewhere or in order to attempt to manipulate someone, or to specifically break that expectation

as town she has motivation to do that though because of the reasons she's stated already

it's possible that as scum who started this game prior to the other one finishing, knowing there would be some overlap in players, she could have tried to go for a different approach here to make the differences clear. i wouldn't want to rule that out, but i don't think it's most likely

also another thing about this reasoning - I think more than one person said this.[Dats and GL Too?]

if you're using how I played in Turing and a comparison and saying that because I'm very good at wielding control as scum that I would be town for

not wielding control

I don't think it's great because;

The key difference between this game and Turing - that setup is not a setup where scum can deepwolf and win whereas this one is.

In Turing if three scum get voted out - the game is over, it doesn't matter how deep one deepwolf gets into the townblock, if you lose three teammates to elimination, you lose the game. By necessity I need to have influence and control things to win, I can't just become very townread and win.

Also the scenarios where you need to influence things to your side will always happen, scum will come up for elimination, it's p much inevitable.

This game does not have that setup - it's open in terms of how you want to play, I can fade into background and have no real threats, scum can never come up for elimination, etc. The game is entirely different and I kind of think you and Datisi would realize this because you're both very smart people and you both understand how strategy works so it feels that read of me is pretty ????

hmm i guess, but the vibe that i get from this game so far is that there is a steadily building towncore of strong town players and that is one where i feel like you would only really be happy sitting back as scum if there is already someone who has made it into that towncore. i don't think you're in it, at least that's not my impression, so it would need to be someone else

and if someone else is already set up to deepwolf then why are you sitting around not taking control but also not being in the towncore? like if ydrasse or someone has tricked us all then i would expect you to be powerwolfing here

and if nobody has, then i still would, bc if you're just sitting here letting scamper and ydrasse and all of these players find each other as town then i think you're gonna have a really hard time

also, turing test is i think a good example of how i would expect you to play as scum, but that's also just kinda my expectation regardless of setup. maybe im wrong on that? idk, i haven't seen you play scum very much, mostly going off what you've described yourself

[fireisredsir]

ok i re-checked the readlists and maybe ari is more in the towncore than i thought in which case idk maybe im wrong on that point

[Aristeia]

fire you don't have to make me that seriously when I say I have an embarrassing probably wrong reason <3

I do appreciate the effort though!

[Aristeia]

it's open in terms of how you want to play, I can fade into background and have no real threats, scum can never come up for elimination, etc.

i believe i specifically called this out as a reason that my townread on you is not that strong from that point

it's friday come dance with me dear <3

[Frogsterking]

i still want to continue reading the whole game but i kind of feel like i'm not absorbing information as well this way

can someone give me three people to ISO instead? preferably candidates to be eliminated.

Baltar, Dannflor and Conman

[Nero Cain]

If I had to pick between Dann and Conman I'd say that Dann is scummier and it also feels like Dann has sorta disappeared? I think VP is scummy. But remember, I'm town and my reads are bad.

[Frogsterking]

If I had to pick between Dann and Conman I'd say that Dann is scummier and it also feels like Dann has sorta disappeared? I think VP is scummy. But remember, I'm town and my reads are bad.

Can you make a list with your town reads and stuff?

[GuiltyLion]

I think your push on FB is wrong but useful and I like your play.

I don't particularly think FB is town but I can wait for him to kick into gear for now and he's done enough that I am not auto scumreading so I don't want to vote there right now.

if you're not sure about FB's alignment, why do you think my push is "wrong"?

what has he done that makes him above auto scumreading? IMO, maybe you could argue/think that he hasn't done anything

actively scummy

, but I don't see anything he's done that's felt townie at all

[GuiltyLion]

Why it feel like ur trying to hide behind dats this game?

can you explain why you have this impression

I don't think I've really been very in sync with Datisi, and I also think I've done my own stuff that Datisi hasn't agreed with or hasn't been pushing himself

so, I don't really get this comment

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, who should I vote before I catch up?

[Datisi]

dann or conman

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: conman

[Irrelephant11]

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

i found myself subconsciously liking them a bit,

awww newbies got a crush

[T3]

1.11
Dannflor (5): humaneatingmonkey, GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, Ausuka, Datisi
ConManMick (4): scamper, Ydrasse, Aristeia, VP Baltar
GuiltyLion (3): skitter30, DeasVail, Dannflor
Gamma Emerald (3): Irrelephant11, fireisredsir, Nero Cain
obscure (1): Firebringer
Aristeia (1): ConManMick
Frogsterking (1): Gamma Emerald
Not voting (2): marcistar, xofelf
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-09 23:15:00). With 20 alive, 11 is needed to lim and 10 to no lim.
Mod notes: no weird pictures have some music