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[fireisredsir]

Fire can you go into your read on HEM

yea i just buy what he's saying mostly

when i played with scum HEM before his fake aggression came off as super fake to me. and he was playing a very positional game, always trying to push people, getting in 1v1s, creating presence, being a leader

here it feels like he is solving on his own terms and not being performative and it just feels a lot closer to what i remember from his town game. when he is reaching out to people it's to try to better his own solves and work together with his townreads to sort others, not to push an agenda

i don't agree with all of his takes but they feel right. the reactions to things make sense. nothing really has felt off to me

it's possible he's making the choice to play this game in a different style and go for the deepwolf route and he's probably worth another look later but for now im ok with trusting

[Dannflor]

I don’t have any scum reads I feel good about I’m so frustrated

ok, me neither. what about townreads?

Off the top of my head, ausuka, you, and the person with the wolf avatar(?) sorry I’m phoneposting and too sleepy to check right now

I’ve come around to town reading GL too

I thought I was town reading Frogster but I’m getting the feeling I’m town reading their playstyle and I’m sure they don’t have trouble relocating their particular brand of uh posting. Idk I’ve never seen them play before you can give me the over under on that

I’ve also cooled off on my datisi town read but maybe you can help reinforce that again for me

Oh I think Nero Cain is town too, I think he goes up there with you and ausuka

[fireisredsir]

I think you’re right that normally I would see this as a challenge and be tryharding my ass off

I love replacing into “doomed” slots, it’s absolutely the most fun thing to do in this game

But I take that mindset regardless of alignment and right now I’m not in the right mindset so you trying to psychanalyze me is just going to be off base no matter what

I am just not in a good mindset right now

I will try to snap out of it and summon the motivation because I feel really bad that this is my level of play right now but I have 0 confidence in my ability to show my towniness in general right now for a number of reasons and I’m hoping if I just keep posting to post that eventually I’ll shake that off

Anyway this is probably not a productive line of discussion

i think it was useful for me at least, ty, helps to know more what thoughts were behind the things you were saying

this feels to me like a game that is winnable by townblocking so if finding scum is hard rn then maybe focus instead on examining people's reasons for townreading the consensus townreads and seeing if everything there checks out or if any of them should be re-examined

[Dannflor]

Off the top of my head DV was the widely town read slot that I got the most “making a push to make a push - attempted deepwolf” vibes from so that is a read I’ll commit to re-examining in the morning

[Frogsterking]

fireisred locktowned

[fireisredsir]

I thought I was town reading Frogster but I’m getting the feeling I’m town reading their playstyle and I’m sure they don’t have trouble relocating their particular brand of uh posting. Idk I’ve never seen them play before you can give me the over under on that

frog is uhh interesting

i think if he's scum he's probably bussing here tbh so i don't mind letting him

i think he has some playstyle traits that are divergent but maybe has gotten better imitating most of them. so far seems more on the town side. i also think here he's been the most pro-town-wincon I've ever seen him be in any game that ive played or read. so that counts for something

[Dannflor]

Fire can you go into your read on HEM

yea i just buy what he's saying mostly

when i played with scum HEM before his fake aggression came off as super fake to me. and he was playing a very positional game, always trying to push people, getting in 1v1s, creating presence, being a leader

here it feels like he is solving on his own terms and not being performative and it just feels a lot closer to what i remember from his town game. when he is reaching out to people it's to try to better his own solves and work together with his townreads to sort others, not to push an agenda

i don't agree with all of his takes but they feel right. the reactions to things make sense. nothing really has felt off to me

it's possible he's making the choice to play this game in a different style and go for the deepwolf route and he's probably worth another look later but for now im ok with trusting

Okay thanks

It felt to me that HEM was just posting a lot and people were generally town reading them for being high presence and looking like they’re doing things, but that helps a little

[Nero Cain]

seems kinda rude to lock people inside the town

[Dannflor]

Okay Frogster can be townbinned for now then

I’m not really afraid of Frogster winning the game on his lonesome for some reason

I need to sleep now but thank you for talking with me fire, I’ll try to be less depressing tomorrow

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don’t have any scum reads I feel good about I’m so frustrated

just drop a readslist or poe

at the very least im thinking you townread me so that's a start
why

[humaneatingmonkey]

optics, i think you saying that you dont have any scumreads stands out to me as an excuse for not being able to position yourself well because you've been scumread from the start
your entrance today felt like you are self-conscious that you should be elimmed and not CMM and you're trying to play that card
however, i understand that i may be wrong but if you are truly feeling down, then just dump your reads and let us see you for who you are

[humaneatingmonkey]

i also dont know why you think it's the best choice to elim you here when you're not really in any unique danger.
just feels like hopeless scum more than frustrated town. you dig me?

[Ausuka]

Dann I find it kind of weird that you felt like you were shading me a bit and now I'm your strongest townread?

(sorry, it's not personal or anything and you don't have to answer right now if you don't feel like it! But scum can get demotivated too and like... I can't just not suspect you)

[humaneatingmonkey]

Off the top of my head DV was the widely town read slot that I got the most “making a push to make a push - attempted deepwolf” vibes from so that is a read I’ll commit to re-examining in the morning

i agree with this so if you want to feel hopeful again, i'll come listen to your thoughts on this. it should be good.

[Ausuka]

Baltar gimme your Datisi read b4 he wakes up

Scum fuck obv. Would D1 yeet with no remorse.

Is it dumb to read this as cheeky partners? Because I do

did you roll scum with Datisi -.-

[Datisi]

stop trying to make scumtisi happen

it's not going to happen

[humaneatingmonkey]

dats i iso'd you and baltar and it seems like both of you have largely held back from holding a solid stance about each other even though it seems like you both knew each other well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

vp baltar - every bone in my body is telling me to yeet him, which is about standard as either alignment so whatever. 1310 is veering into TSTBS territory for me. maybe. because "hehehoho i have 3 scumreads and zero townreads" is such a fucking. horrible take that i feel like scum just Doesn't hit submit on a post like that. i hate the way he's playing around me bc it feels like he's afraid to either townread or scumread me because he knows that i am gonna be all over his read if i deem that it's not what i imagine it has to be, and guessing THAT is basically impossible because not even i know what i think it should be right now. but uh, giving this a bit more time until he's a little bit less busy i guess, but. idk. pain.

your comments on his play was net negative and it made me wonder why you didn't put him on your scumpile or at least made an effort to read him — even though both of you seem to be sharing reads with each other

[humaneatingmonkey]

care to explain

[Datisi]

i held back from holding a stance on him because he wasn't *doing* anything

like "i will let you live d1 because you had a few moments that were kinda counterintuitive as scum, but holy shit i do not trust you at all" is a stance, one that looks convenient in retrospect but it is what it is

also i called him out for the fact that he does not have a proper read on me, after heavily correctly suspecting him in a previous game for a bad read on me - you can't pin that scumminess on me, sorry

vp baltar - every bone in my body is telling me to yeet him, which is about standard as either alignment so whatever. 1310 is veering into TSTBS territory for me. maybe. because "hehehoho i have 3 scumreads and zero townreads" is such a fucking. horrible take that i feel like scum just Doesn't hit submit on a post like that. i hate the way he's playing around me bc it feels like he's afraid to either townread or scumread me because he knows that i am gonna be all over his read if i deem that it's not what i imagine it has to be, and guessing THAT is basically impossible because not even i know what i think it should be right now. but uh, giving this a bit more time until he's a little bit less busy i guess, but. idk. pain.

your comments on his play was net negative and it made me wonder why you didn't put him on your scumpile or at least made an effort to read him — even though both of you seem to be sharing reads with each other

as i was typing that out, i realized that there is more negative stuff about him than positive, but i didn't feel like going back to editing the image bc i didn't wanna vote him at the time anyway, and i have incorrectly scumread him on d1 way too many times i was just gonna feel stupid if i was wrong again

like, i *can* explain why this is literally how i never play around buddy!baltar on day 1, but as recent experience has taught me, people don't give a shit about that kind of defense, so

[humaneatingmonkey]

it just seems to me that you decided early that baltar was gonna be null regardless and that makes me think partner.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like, i *can* explain why this is literally how i never play around buddy!baltar on day 1, but as recent experience has taught me, people don't give a shit about that kind of defense, so

i'll give a shit

[marcistar]

like, i *can* explain why this is literally how i never play around buddy!baltar on day 1, but as recent experience has taught me, people don't give a shit about that kind of defense, so

i'll give a shit

r u scum

[Ausuka]

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

There's no way it's just vpb/s_s/xof right

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

And you think town don't have these 'flimsy' reads in the early game or

Like if that's the logic we're going on you are looking very very bad right now

Sure, town can be flimsy.

But they probably have a complete thought process at least. I still don't understand your Nero town ping.

My instinct is that VPB would be less likely to press me so hard on having a Nero townping if Nero is scum here?? And like, I was townreading him anyway, so...

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

i feel like the other reasons so far to suspect datisi feel a bit... better than this

why is this a red flag? datisi feeling entitled to an rvs vote?

I liked this at the time because it felt like a genuine thing to think when reading the thread and was something I agreed with. VPB flipping red reinforces this read. Scum often do distance early but like... idk I don't feel like ydrasse was doing that??

VPB is your scamper vote serious

eh, I wouldn't say it was super serious. I liked GuiltyLion's approach and felt like applying minor pressure. But I would put scamper in the null pile if I'm being intellectually honest.

this is maybe +scum for scamper

I'm not sure I'm scum reading marci. Seems like alot of meta complaints mostly? Someone correct me if that's not right

This looks like marci is town because I really do not get the feeling VPB cares about her at all when reading this post.

Holy shit there are people in this game who haven't posted

This makes it feel like there are scum in the lurkers because it seems so weird to me? Like, I don't buy that he genuinely just does not realise there are lurkers in this game. Maybe he's just trying to look like he's not Thinking Strategically And Therefore Town but maybe he wants to create distance from lurky partners because for a second my reaction
was 'oh maybe his partners are active players'

VOTE: firebringer

VPB starts the FB wagon. While he could be distancing here, I don't think it's likely? Mostly because rather than like being theatrical, VPB doesn't really draw attention to the vote and doesn't even explain his scumread on FB until Datisi asks him to. So like, if he's distancing he's doing it in quite an underwhelming way considering he would hypothetically have started the wagon in this scenario.

Datisi and VPB both voting FB at the same time is maybe worth noting but not sure if that's AI for experienced scum players who know that's not really risky

VPB has a phase where he asks a bunch of questions (to GL, DV, Dunnstral slot who is Frog now, FB, scamper, skitter slot who is obscure now) which don't really appear to have much followup or, anything actually. I feel like a couple of these people should be partnered with VPB? Because it seems like a super easy way to make interactions with partners without having to like, actually do anything.

what should he have conviction on atp?

Anything? We are 42 pages in here. Time to start moving the game in a semi serious direction.

is there anything specific you expected to see from Town!FB that you're not seeing or is this just a generalized "he has no takes" thing?

I didn't say FB has no takes, though they are few and far between. It's more of the fact their takes don't go anywhere. I don't have a strong FB meta, but I don't take anyone this game as a complete slouch.

I get the working a lot thing. I have put in 8 hours Sunday, 14 Monday, and 12 yesterday at work. It sucks and makes it hard to stay up on everything in a mafia game or pursue threads as deeply as you may like. That being said, I do still think it's possible to semi-read along and have some kind of viewpoint.

You think this is typical town!FB behavior?

This felt like scum making an easy push earlier. it still does now and I don't feel like this is partnered with S_S.

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

do you have conviction on anything right now

Wtf are you talking about? I'm voting and pursuing plenty of threads. You think I have no conviction, or you just pointlessly shading?

I think this interaction feels really fake.

I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.

Ok so
I had the thought that this was a freudian slip and he's saying "you're scum with datisi" because he is in fact scum with datisi
Upon thinking about this further I think it's a massive stretch but I'm leaving it in the post because at the very least I think it's funny.

VPB where are you on this game

What an incredibly vague question.

I am voting FB. You should too or push a more serious alternative.

There's a lot of faffing going on this game and I'm kinda bored

I still don't think scum bussing act like this, especially talking about how bored he is which I think just feels more blunt than I'd expect a bus to be.

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

If this is a scum/scum interaction I will be shocked

Do you really think that makes sense??

Do you think it makes sense to say 'you vote first and I'll join you'?

Like if your whole deal is getting numerous votes on a wagon, then the logical play is to vote first and directly ask people to join. It's backwards to be like " well let's count the votes first to make sure we have enough before we do this for real 48 hours into D1".

You're acting like I'm a dumb shit here, but you're not making any sense about how you're pursuing wagons. If you scum read me, then vote and stop being a coward about it.

Make a case even. But don't tell me it really makes sense to go to someone you maybe scum read and then seek a coalition of 2 before voting.

Pedit - you're right. I'm so dumb. Good point.

Don't think this is either

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

Questioning a vote is not defending.

Did you read ari's post? It was definitely a defense.

More importantly, what is the point of this semantics argument though?

I think this genuinely reads as fed up of the interaction and is probably +town for Gamma because I think a scum distancing thing is more likely to be interesting for Baltar

I probably didn't have better reads. I would have just said that.

can u give me some reads so i can copy them

FB scum. Scamper maybe scum (but I should actually read this elephant case). Ausuka maybe scum. Probably one in the super lurk squad or a deep wolf, you can pick your favorite there.

Game solve, lock it in.

Hmm I don't think he really ever talks about scamper before this in constrast to both me and FB. When asked about it he posts 1314 which is a longwinded way to say "I have no good vibes from you" - I mean who actually talks about how interesting people are instead of the content of their read? This could just be a 'Baltar wolf doing wolf things' read I guess but scamper is not a top tier townread for me anymore

I don't want to quote VPB's dannflor wall to keep this post less wally, but it's 2144. I'm not fond of VPB kinda waffling on Dann but making sure to tack some distancing on near the end, and then later saying he's against the Dann wagon and 'super not feeling it.'

I don't think the interaction with GL feels partnered. Like Ari said it feels like the Joker vs Batman in that GL feels right and makes sense and VPB is just trying to find any angle to attack him from?

Whew that was long. Finally I'm going to look at his Datisi interactions more holistically. I think the fact VPB and Datisi had their fallout

after

Aristeia called them out as potentially partners, Aristeia still calling them partners towards the end of the day, Aristeia dying and Datisi talking about 'oh i would never interact with vpb like that as scum' even though Aristeia is the person who I know reads Datisi best is super scummy imo. I think his push on Datisi just totally fizzles out in a way I don't like - he thinks scamper is scum over Datisi later despite like never really actually pushing scamper. None of it feels natural to me.

Looking at the other side of things - I think 1939 has a read on VPB which is like... Okay, I guess it COULD come from town datisi, but pivoting into a 'too scummy to be scum' read on vp baltar is SO convenient. Scum had no idea VPB was going to die, so I could see Datisi wanting to be easily able to take VPB out of his limelight and focus on slots like CMM and town in Relly/Dann/Gamma all of which would be fairly easy people for Dats to eliminate since he's charismatic and all of them were pretty common pushes yesterday iirc.

In conclusion, I have decided to die on this hill and we're doing this



VOTE: Datisi

[Ausuka]

stop trying to make scumtisi happen

it's not going to happen

Never