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[Nero Cain]

red pms are no laughing matter

[marcistar]

fire is scum clearly

[fireisredsir]

fire is scum clearly

why

[GuiltyLion]

Datisi's 3007 on town-dann is a good post imo

I didn't remember quite how weak the CMM wagon was at that time, I do think we should keep in mind that Dann wagon had definitely stalled by this point in the game, but overall it does feel like VPB's play is more likely trying to keep three different viable options alive rather than play with an agenda. at the time I felt this was CMM/VPB unaligned but I think it's decent evidence for Dann/VPB unaligned too. it's enough to currently make me want to at least look elsewhere for today

[Nero Cain]

I don't think I really agree with that. VP votes con instead of Dann and then argues with GL. I mean maybe if Marci flips scum but I'm not sure if I agree that lack of Dann vote/basic ISO on him=town Dann

[fireisredsir]

oh i forgot about that post

i kinda disagree just bc it felt like vp's isoing of conman and dann felt really kinda forced and awkward, in a way that it felt like he thought he needed to have an opinion on them in case they flipped

and vp town loves making dueling wagons on d1 of a large. vp scum loves to imitate vp town. but vp scum gets weird and awkward and dodgy when one of the people that he would normally be pushing for as one of the dueling wagons is actually scum (see ktane). vp scum also does not always vote the counter (again, see ktane, for a while it was me (town) vs mistyx (scum) as the leading wagons and he was pushing elsewhere)

and it kinda feels to me like he's actually hesitant to want to push for dueling wagons while also hard pushing the town counter to scum bc then he is basically creating a gamestate where he ends up looking suspicious off it

i don't think he would have had any issue pushing for dann/conman as the two leading wagons and playing the town leader and forcing everyone to give a stance on them if they were t/t

and i think that awkwardness could come from dann scum

[Nero Cain]

I think Fire is my long lost twin

[fireisredsir]

im now having a brief moment of worry where i try to remember why i townread datisi

[fireisredsir]

oh right baltar interactions

hmmmm i still believe that

[GuiltyLion]

So I was a bit surprised by her death, and specifically I think she has knowledge of Datisi's meta that no one else does - so I do think it's scum indicative that after she dies Datisi starts talking about how he's never scum with VPB on self meta even though she clearly didn't agree with that analysis.

I'm not sure I follow this - how are you inferring that Ari didn't agree with that analysis when it was given after Ari died? Like I get Ari had VPB/Datisi both scum, but this feels a little unfair to then say Ari wouldn't necessarily agree with what Datisi says in his defense

[Ausuka]

So I was a bit surprised by her death, and specifically I think she has knowledge of Datisi's meta that no one else does - so I do think it's scum indicative that after she dies Datisi starts talking about how he's never scum with VPB on self meta even though she clearly didn't agree with that analysis.

I'm not sure I follow this - how are you inferring that Ari didn't agree with that analysis when it was given after Ari died? Like I get Ari had VPB/Datisi both scum, but this feels a little unfair to then say Ari wouldn't necessarily agree with what Datisi says in his defense

I don't really understand how it's unfair? I think Ari has lots of knowledge about Datisi's meta. I think if she didn't think they could be partners, she wouldn't have put them as part of the same scumteam.

[Nero Cain]

that damn Ari and a 100% read rate!

[Ausuka]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

[fireisredsir]

ik she put us all in the groupscum category but i kinda doubt ari really thought that me and dats and baltar were all scum together

that would have been so much fun and imo she would have been posting more about how she would be jealous to be missing out

only half joking here

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

sorry, I do think it's fair to be suspicious, it was just the "Ari clearly disagreed with that analysis" that felt a bit like an assumption because the analysis didn't exist when Ari gave her reads.

I also think there's a slight extra element of Datisi's self-meta point about their interactions that you glossed over which is that Datisi:

a) called Baltar out on not having a firm read on him (1939)
b) is arguing that he would have told Baltar not to do that if they were scum together

it's not just about activity imo

[scamper]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

[GuiltyLion]

oh i forgot about that post

i kinda disagree just bc it felt like vp's isoing of conman and dann felt really kinda forced and awkward, in a way that it felt like he thought he needed to have an opinion on them in case they flipped

and vp town loves making dueling wagons on d1 of a large. vp scum loves to imitate vp town. but vp scum gets weird and awkward and dodgy when one of the people that he would normally be pushing for as one of the dueling wagons is actually scum (see ktane). vp scum also does not always vote the counter (again, see ktane, for a while it was me (town) vs mistyx (scum) as the leading wagons and he was pushing elsewhere)

and it kinda feels to me like he's actually hesitant to want to push for dueling wagons while also hard pushing the town counter to scum bc then he is basically creating a gamestate where he ends up looking suspicious off it

i don't think he would have had any issue pushing for dann/conman as the two leading wagons and playing the town leader and forcing everyone to give a stance on them if they were t/t

and i think that awkwardness could come from dann scum

mmmmm

I guess I see this

my main thing is it felt like VPB only decided to vote me

after

I started bothering him, prior to that he was seemingly content to sit on CMM

but you've convinced me it's still more possible to have Dann scum than I was thinking

[Datisi]

my case for why i'm town is also similar why nero is town

(i mean nero's town for a whole lot of other things, same as me huehuehue, but)

i don't think scum goes "hey, buddy, why are you different meta-wise here" when they can either (1) go into the scum pt and say that, or (2) shut the fuck up

[Nero Cain]

Why am I town, dats?

[Ausuka]

I mean technically that is an assumption sure, but I think it's reasonable to say that Ari knows those two and accounted for their relationship in her read. Part of my viewpoint is that precisely because she is dead she cannot contradict anything Dats is saying here and it seems like his charisma is capable of winning over pretty much anyone else. It feels like a convenient situation for Datisi to be in.

I did gloss over that, mostly because I'm not sure what to say except I don't find it convincing? Like, I don't think there's that much reason to believe Baltar wouldn't actually make a non-firm read on Datisi as partners and I have seen scumtisi use the "scumtisi wouldn't do this" defense mutliple times.

[Datisi]

i see fire's point and i think it's valid? my thought was moreso that i don't think scum-vp would be feeling awkward about pushing for competing wagons while also leaning more into pushing conman, because that's like, better than not imitating his town-meta at all

but also i was not paying that close attention in ktane

hmm

[fireisredsir]

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

can you give your strongest reason or two, it would make me feel better

[Datisi]

i have a new read that may or may not be insane: there is 1-2 scum in {dann, fireisredsir}

[Ausuka]

I mean Datisi's posting on why he can't be a buddy to VPB is basically just

"we are friends and I would like us to be scum together, if we were scum together I would be more active."

I think given that datisi was very busy for part of the game and is still one of the top posters, and he specifically messed around a lot with Baltar, his play here is engaged and meets that description. I also think Aristeia knows Datisi and VP Baltar well enough to know that they're friends and account for that in her read.

I'm not saying Ari is infallible or a god or whatever. I'm saying specifically on Datisi I have reasons to think she is trustworthy and when she dies on night 1 and datisi comes out with self meta opposite to what she said, of course I'm going to be suspicious of that. I don't think that's unfair at all.

i'm going to step in here and tell u that u are wrong on datisi. i am incredibly confident he is town. i do not think u are scum and if u are town it is more productive for u to be able to focus ur time elsewhere rather than being tunneled on an incorrect answer

I wouldn't say I'm tunneled? I am aware there is a very good chance Datisi is town. I think
1) nobody else is really going to give Datisi any scrutiny if I don't do it
2) I have in fact been thinking about other slots in the game and there isn't any one in particular that stands out as a good push to me right now.

I have been giving arguments for why Datisi is suspicious. Last time you talked to me you mischaracterised my arguments as saying Datisi is scum because VPB pushed him which obviously is not the case. I'm open to dropping this but I don't know why you'd expect "datisi is town" to convince me?

[Nero Cain]