Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Frogsterking]

UNVOTE: Delta

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Greeting

I want to test the claim.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: BBT this seems like a better compromise then.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Delta I

think

this is the last one

[Frogsterking]

I'm not convinced that BBT bussed themselves into a potential autoloss or makes the Greeting kill. I think what's happening here is that I'm ahead of the curve on my Delta FoS.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not convinced that BBT bussed themselves into a potential autoloss or makes the Greeting kill. I think what's happening here is that I'm ahead of the curve on my Delta FoS.

Because this reads like you want to buffer the wave of suspicion by quickly having another name out there without yet having the reasons to back it up

Fine then:

I think Delta is scum by PoE. I think Delta is most likely to make the Greeting kill. I think Delta tried to pocket me D2 and I think Delta lied about their survey results. I think Delta has a viable (though unlikely) path to end game which doesn't require much work on their part. Delta tried to derail the Hoppip wagon. Delta has some minor negative associatives with Hoppip from D1. Delta was suspected early D1 based on tone and then Townread later for bad reasons which I consider typical "deepscum" trajectory.

[Frogsterking]

I'm not convinced that BBT bussed themselves into a potential autoloss or makes the Greeting kill. I think what's happening here is that I'm ahead of the curve on my Delta FoS.

Because this reads like you want to buffer the wave of suspicion by quickly having another name out there without yet having the reasons to back it up

Fine then:

I think Delta is scum by PoE. I think Delta is most likely to make the Greeting kill. I think Delta tried to pocket me D2 and I think Delta lied about their survey results. I think Delta has a viable (though unlikely) path to end game which doesn't require much work on their part. Delta tried to derail the Hoppip wagon. Delta has some minor negative associatives with Hoppip from D1. Delta was suspected early D1 based on tone and then Townread later for bad reasons which I consider typical "deepscum" trajectory.

That's just an outline, it's not a very level 1 read. I'd give Delta 33% to flip scum.

[Frogsterking]

That's a quick 360

[Frogsterking]

*emotionally reacts*

I'm at the movie theaters, I'm about to watch Bodies Bodies Bodies

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'm like 90% on Delta being the last one now. I think you guys are lazy and don't know how to scum hunt at this stage of the game.

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'm like 90% on Delta being the last one now. I think you guys are lazy and don't know how to scum hunt at this stage of the game.

I don't mind dying a martyr because this Town is H-E-A-V-Y

I expect you guys to fuck this up somehow and allow Delta to solo win. I predict you continue to brain off and execute BBT tomorrow, then scramble at the last minute and fail to realize Delta is the last one.

HALLELUJAH I'M FREE

SEND ME HOME BABIES

SEND ME HOME TO DADDY

[Frogsterking]

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Clinging to that rvs for dear life lmao

it's page 10. so? juice is still null. im not against any votes there but data-wise iffy. why do I get the feeling that you're hunting for easy elims Delta?

OH yeah that must be why I'm still voting inutile

Try to make up better rationales please

despite 'common consensus' inutile is very elimable today, we all are in theory. i think they are town but hey they are def still a poss. and when you voted inutile, well, at that point it did seem an easy elim?

and you voting one place doesnt mean im not gonna analyze your pushes where you don't vote? what logic even is that? i'm only allowed to comment on where you vote? while your early scum on juice has been reinforced here? better rationale? no. I like my rationale right here, trained on you.

sooooo yeah................... i'll wait for gandhi but you're starting to really sell me on delta/hoppip here.

@Delta

@hutmeil

@BBT

What do you make of 237?

Clinging to that rvs for dear life lmao

it's page 10. so? juice is still null. im not against any votes there but data-wise iffy. why do I get the feeling that you're hunting for easy elims Delta?

the fact that you have hoppip above "lurkers always scum in there"(which i disagree with, on rational principle) worries me.
the fact that you don't address Frogster, who is obvious town, worries me.
The fact that you are not happy with the gandhi wagon this early worries me.
The fact that juice isn't at null worries me.

why do you worry me?

It is usually true that at least one mafia will lurk in order to avoid attention. It is very interesting that you perked up now that I've thrown a bit of shade on you by including you in the lurker category.

I forgot about frogater. Id say neutral leaning town but it's not super solid.

I never said I wasn't happy with the ghandi wagon. I just don't really understand it. Don't misrep me.

Let me guess. You are trying to slow walk your way onto my wagon so you can be with bbt.

lol....................................................

i'm used to shade on me. so no, u didnt perk me up, dont convince urself of that. what perked me is your.... untowny tone. Cos..... the way you speak here.... tbh if I weren't voting gandhi i'd be voting u. no slowwalking or whatever toward toffee rekuired, im not a walrus but an orca.


AAAAaaaaaaannndd..........

I love ur diversion of hoppip in this post. regardless of gandhi alignment ur words here make delta/hoppip very likely in my mind.

[Frogsterking]

I mean she isn't wrong about this!

I think you're paying too much attention to the energy behind the words rather than what Delta is actually saying.

[Frogsterking]

She is saying that anyone could kill the claimed cop and I agree with this assessment, anyone could in fact commit a nightkill on the claimed cop?

Is this supposed to be convincing? Delta killed Greeting because Delta can't endgame with Greeting alive after shading them yesterday. It has nothing to do with Greeting's role because Greeting's role is useless. Scum intentionally missed out on killing a real investigative to kill Greeting which implies to me that the final scum feared immediate retaliation from Greeting during the day. Delta is the main slot that has a reason to fear Greeting today.

[Frogsterking]

Am I really stupid for believing that? Yes, whatever, maybe you're going to say something about how it's weird they didn't kill Greeting N1

Yes and no respectively.

[Frogsterking]

I don't believe that greeting's role.is necessarily useless! I also think you shaded Greeting plenty yesterday so I have no fucking idea what you're talking about frankly

Greeting attributed my actions as bad townplay rather than scummy, which was wise of him. I'll believe your point about me=Delta if you can show me reason to believe Greeting saw Town motivation in Delta's actions.

Greetings role is useless (I'm assuming) after the 2nd goon flips.

[Frogsterking]

Greeting's only read on d2 was eiralox scum and I don't think there is a lot there beyond that

If anything eiralox would be the one I'd expect you to call out for making the kill but I don't think it's eiralox.

I don't think Eiralox made the kill because I don't think Eiralox is scum lol

[Frogsterking]

With three goons disloyal simple cop is just a cop that's a bit weaker than a cop because it can't clear people.

With two goons it's a role that provides a lot of swing dependent on which mafia you target which to me is just less fun and neat. There is a somewhat similar dynamic with jailkeeper and tracker and such like but I think since mafia have to choose who will perform the kill that's significantly better.

And that doesn't mean it can't be what happened in this game! Maybe the last mafia isn't a goon. I just think it's a strange assumption to make.

I think Normals are designed in part to meet expectations. My expectation is that scum will have one or two PRs so I jumped to that assumption. I feel like I'm making the right call here about what to expect in this game, though I think your design ideas are good.

[Frogsterking]

With three goons disloyal simple cop is just a cop that's a bit weaker than a cop because it can't clear people.

With two goons it's a role that provides a lot of swing dependent on which mafia you target which to me is just less fun and neat. There is a somewhat similar dynamic with jailkeeper and tracker and such like but I think since mafia have to choose who will perform the kill that's significantly better.

And that doesn't mean it can't be what happened in this game! Maybe the last mafia isn't a goon. I just think it's a strange assumption to make.

Yes and I think Normals are designed in part to meet expectations. My expectation is that scum will have one or two PRs so I jumped to that assumption. I feel like I'm making the right call here about what to expect in this game, though I think your design ideas are good.

EBWOP

[Frogsterking]

I mean
1) I do not think normals are designed to meet expectations and sometimes mods design setups that violate those expectations just for the sake of doing so

2) even if that were the case I do not think a setup with 3 goons really violates expectations?? I think that's rather normal?

I think you're making good points that aren't shutting down what I'm saying. I'm willing to accept that my argument Delta benefitted the most from the NK is

unorthodox

and I'm not willing to accept that it's

bad

...yet.

[Frogsterking]

*emotionally reacts*

I'm at the movie theaters, I'm about to watch Bodies Bodies Bodies

Was good by the way

[Frogsterking]

Wolfy pop-ins spotted

[Frogsterking]

Where we at with votes?

We're pretty close to mis-hammer time if you'd like to do the honors.

[Frogsterking]

i have a feeling that frog has some good insights into the composition of the scumteam, which is how he can make this assumption.

This is starting to reach too-scummy-to-be-scum territory for me, I feel like scum don't usually say things which look this bad on paper.

UNVOTE: Delta

[Frogsterking]

i have a feeling that frog has some good insights into the composition of the scumteam, which is how he can make this assumption.

This is starting to reach too-scummy-to-be-scum territory for me, I feel like scum don't usually say things which look this bad on paper.

UNVOTE: Delta

FMPOV when I've been pushed as scum I've often felt
"Oh this person has good insight" and then deliberately NOT posted that information. I guess I'm either overthinking it, Eira was scum after all, or the scum player is a player who would risk bussing themselves into auto loss.

[Frogsterking]

i have a feeling that frog has some good insights into the composition of the scumteam, which is how he can make this assumption.

This is starting to reach too-scummy-to-be-scum territory for me, I feel like scum don't usually say things which look this bad on paper.

UNVOTE: Delta

FMPOV when I've been pushed as scum I've often felt
"Oh this person has good insight" and then deliberately NOT posted that information. I guess I'm either overthinking it, Eira was scum after all, or the scum player is a player who would risk bussing themselves into auto loss.

It's most likely that I'm overthinking it.

VOTE: Delta

[Frogsterking]

i have a feeling that frog has some good insights into the composition of the scumteam, which is how he can make this assumption.

This is starting to reach too-scummy-to-be-scum territory for me, I feel like scum don't usually say things which look this bad on paper.

UNVOTE: Delta

FMPOV when I've been pushed as scum I've often felt
"Oh this person has good insight" and then deliberately NOT posted that information. I guess I'm either overthinking it, Eira was scum after all, or the scum player is a player who would risk bussing themselves into auto loss.

It's most likely that I'm overthinking it.

VOTE: Delta

UNVOTE: Delta

[Frogsterking]

There is another explanation I just realized:

Perhaps crescent being on Greeting is a good look for Greeting? Whatever.
VOTE: hoppip

Start of D2, intended for distancing.

Not Known 15 (6!):

Klick

, Ausuka, BlueBloodedToffee, Nero Cain, Greeting, Mapuche Never Die

It IS possible that Klick forgot to unvote.

[Frogsterking]

I think frog is maybe 40% to flip scum?

If this is a townflip I guess I'll have another look at Delta overnight

I think this Town is 100% to be playing very lazy and very bad and the ensuing scramble you're all about to experience D4+ is your collective faults and I will be laughing at you from the dead thread.

VOTE: Delta

imo for future reference:

Delta > Klick > BBT

[Frogsterking]

Delta > Klick > BBT

The problem is that if it's not Delta I think you're dealing with edge cases, and I think MND is viable as a edge case, so it won't be very easy to win.

The only silver lining I can see to your collective horrible D3 play is that IF it's not Delta it will be easier to win without me because FMPOV no one besides Delta makes a whole lot of sense.

[Frogsterking]

why doesn't BBT make sense?

I still don't get why you and Klick are townreading Ausuka now. Just the hopip flip?

I think Ausuka seemed like they were having fun yesterday when I was pushing them and I don't think that is a scum response to being pushed *at all*.

I mean call it lazy but I have reviewed your play and I think you absolutely have to die before endgame for that absolutely abhorrent d2 so, shrug

I agree that my D2 play was bad!

[Frogsterking]

claim frogger

I'm a combined multitasking Cop + Tracker with 4 guilties on Delta.

[Frogsterking]

Frogsterking, can you please frame how delta scum fits in with their partners?

I think Delta felt some pressure to play better because their team wasn't doing much of anything. I think Delta was rusty at the start but got back into it over the course of D1.

[Frogsterking]

I mean it's less about the quality of your play and more that you were desperately trying to wagon anyone but the scum who was hard lurking and basically indefensible (but you knew if they got eliminated you would be at risk mechanically)

I think that you just don't understand what Greeting was trying to explain about my play not being AI. I think it's a naive thing. Hopefully you will learn after my flip IMO.

[Frogsterking]

Uh oh. I think I know what happened.

[Frogsterking]

oh noes what happened!?

Yall gonna have a rough D4

[Frogsterking]

And therefore we're all solving other slots.

I laugh

[Frogsterking]

Blegh sorry for my tilt earlier.

[Frogsterking]

well see you in another 7 years

Lmao