Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[scamper]

i'm rereading s_s and i feel like i never should have stopped pushing there

[fireisredsir]

it's ok we made it around to a scum eventually anyway

[GuiltyLion]

here's my gamma->skit/obscure thoughts

Spoiler: early gamma reads

Towny: Ausuka, Relly, Marci, Ari

Scummy: HEM, skitter, scamper

gamma opens with a scumread on skitter but doesn't vote it or explain it, despite other people calling skitter town early game IIRC
we could also consider a rule of three here since HEM/scamper both very likely town

Spoiler: weird gamma/obscure interaction

Gamma calling me and HEM scummy in 487 feels weird to me. i acknowledge i'm probably biased, but i'm pretty sure i would've read skitter's posts as townie anyway, and HEM is one of the most townie people by far. scamper is also among my top towns for something i noted before, so their whole group of scumreads feels bad, and like, i'm not seeing their perspective at all, which could mean they're mafia.

This feels like a hokey attempt to cloak an OMGUS read

This interaction is awkward both ways. obscure SRs Gamma for bad reads but again in that slightly LAMISTy way of "I TR the other two players

and I'm town

, so Gamma is scummy"

and Gamma replies back calling it OMGUS but still isn't voting or pushing the slot at all, it's actually her first interaction with obscure

Spoiler: Gamma's Next Move

I also see Frog and obscure being pally, kinda makes me think I’m onto something
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’ll go here first because I think there’s better traction here

And then immediately votes Frog instead? The "traction" comment was odd as well because this was the VC at the time:

Gamma Emerald (4): Irrelephant11, fireisredsir, Frogsterking, Nero Cain
GuiltyLion (3): skitter30, DeasVail, Dannflor
Dannflor (2): humaneatingmonkey, GuiltyLion
Irrelephant11 (2): Datisi, Aristeia
Firebringer (1): VP Baltar
VP Baltar (1): Ausuka
obscure (1): Firebringer
ConManMick (1): scamper
Aristeia (1): ConManMick
Frogsterking (1): Gamma Emerald
Not voting (3): marcistar, xofelf, Ydrasse
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-09 23:15:00). With 20 alive, 11 is needed to lim and 10 to no lim.

for due diligence I'll need to check what the context/thread vibe was in terms of people's reads but it's hard for me to buy that there was really any traction on Frog at all at this point.

Spoiler: Anther bad obscure/gamma interaction

Gamma calling me and HEM scummy in 487 feels weird to me. i acknowledge i'm probably biased, but i'm pretty sure i would've read skitter's posts as townie anyway, and HEM is one of the most townie people by far. scamper is also among my top towns for something i noted before, so their whole group of scumreads feels bad, and like, i'm not seeing their perspective at all, which could mean they're mafia.

This feels like a hokey attempt to cloak an OMGUS read

just googled.

OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you. It is a behavior often associated with inexperienced players.

but i think my reasoning was more complex than that. i acknowledged that the personal bias may have played a part, but it was also just drastically seeing things differently as a whole. even if i'm wrong on my townreads on HEM/scamper, i would sort of expect townies not to see so much so completely differently. what was your early reasonings?

I gave reasoning for both previously

This just feels like a really lifeless reply - like if Gamma thinks obscure is a viable miiselim, and obscure is town on the right track, why go with a blunt dismissal instead of trying harder to discredit obscure or make him look bad?

Spoiler: D2 gamma reads

The dogpiling jokes aside I will give something_smart a chance to get involved in the game I suppose.

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma who are the scum and why

Marci
One of you/obscure
humaneatingmonkey
And maybe someone else

Still sticking with the obscure scumread surrounded by likely two townslots, still not really pushing or voting obscure

and then TSQ calls Gamma out for not pushing either of HEM/obscure at all really, and Gamma's response is to SR and vote TSQ

so despite claiming to scumread skit/obscure slot for the entirety of two days, Gamma at no point cases it, votes it, or does anything to move it along, instead choosing to park a vote on TSQ

Something_Smart (6): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, scamper, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey
obscure (3): Dannflor, Thestatusquo, Ausuka
Thestatusquo (2): Gamma Emerald, Datisi
DeasVail (1): obscure
marcistar (1): DeasVail
Dannflor (1): Nero Cain
Not voting (3): Something_Smart, marcistar, Enchant
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00)
Mod notes: this was right near my school

Something_Smart (5): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey
obscure (3): Dannflor, Thestatusquo, Ausuka
Thestatusquo (2): Gamma Emerald, Datisi
DeasVail (1): obscure
marcistar (1): DeasVail
Dannflor (1): Nero Cain
Nero Cain (1): Enchant
humaneatingmonkey (1): scamper
Not voting (2): Something_Smart, marcistar
Day 1 will end in (expired on 2022-09-18 20:44:00)

[GuiltyLion]

that said, I'm also still fine with a S_S wagon and flip instead lul

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: frogsterking

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: TSQ

[Frogsterking]

for due diligence I'll need to check what the context/thread vibe was in terms of people's reads but it's hard for me to buy that there was really any traction on Frog at all at this point.

I don't think so, I thought that comment was weird the first time I read it.

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: s_s

[Frogsterking]

I greatly dislike that neither S_S or obscure were on Gamma/Tweet yesterday and I don't think it takes a genius to realize Tweet was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

[Frogsterking]

was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

And if not, jumped on at the end like me/Dann/scamper.

[Frogsterking]

was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

And if not, jumped on at the end like me/Dann/scamper.

You can add TSQ to this list for obvious reasons.

[fireisredsir]

the only people voting gamma when MT replaced in were Nero and dann. the wagon came later.

S_S would be unlikely to vote as either alignment and obscure wasn't here at the time. i don't think that their voting or not voting is very AI

[scamper]

I greatly dislike that neither S_S or obscure were on Gamma/Tweet yesterday and I don't think it takes a genius to realize Tweet was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

that assumes that scum were around to throw gammaslot under the bus, its entirely circumstantial

[Frogsterking]

I greatly dislike that neither S_S or obscure were on Gamma/Tweet yesterday and I don't think it takes a genius to realize Tweet was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

that assumes that scum were around to throw gammaslot under the bus, its entirely circumstantial

What do you mean?

[scamper]

I love it when people arbitrarily decide what wagons are acceptable.

GL did you just say I was scum for not leveraging my vote?

part of me just thinks is scum. If we let her live and she's scum she'll just claim roleblocked.

Which is a problem why?

these are all the posts from s_s after tweet replaced in

he didnt really address the wagon in a meaningful way at all

[scamper]

I greatly dislike that neither S_S or obscure were on Gamma/Tweet yesterday and I don't think it takes a genius to realize Tweet was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

that assumes that scum were around to throw gammaslot under the bus, its entirely circumstantial

What do you mean?

ovscure had entirely flaked on the game so the argument "scum would have bussed" doesnt, like, do a whole lot for obscures slot

[Frogsterking]

I've recently started thinking differently about flips like that. I think SS doesn't give us a lot of info right now and I think that's because SS is playing on anti-spew. So with my current understanding of how the game works, SS is the correct slot to flip if we want to maximize the amount of info Town has at a more crucial point later in the game.

isn't this saying "SS is scum but we should flip him later, not now"?

did i misunderstand that

i see you were voting SS at the time and continued doing so for a while so maybe i did

Why would it benefit us to keep a scum slot around which is playing on anti spew vs others which presumably aren't? This feels like a thinly veiled excuse to throw my name around.

can you please just explain what you meant bc i don't know how else to interpret that

obviously i don't think it would benefit us but i wasn't gonna question it

believe me i would not ever throw your name around and invite interaction unless i thought it was useful to do so

The strategy is to flip scum slots in order of their activity level, or their likelihood to reveal information about their scum team. So leaving a slot like S_S alive to flip until endgame is suboptimal because once we've verified they're scum we don't learn anything. That's why I was pushing Dann D1 instead of Baltar, S_S D2 instead of Dease or w.e, because I want the more active scum slots around to create spew which can be reread at endgame. A slot which is playing on anti spew or lurking won't be creating as much spew. So by saying S_S is playing on anti spew I was saying it's a good bet to flip them now rather than later.

[Frogsterking]

I greatly dislike that neither S_S or obscure were on Gamma/Tweet yesterday and I don't think it takes a genius to realize Tweet was probably being bussed at the time they replaced in.

that assumes that scum were around to throw gammaslot under the bus, its entirely circumstantial

What do you mean?

ovscure had entirely flaked on the game so the argument "scum would have bussed" doesnt, like, do a whole lot for obscures slot

You don't think Tweet would do more if it was their job to carry the team?

[fireisredsir]

I've recently started thinking differently about flips like that. I think SS doesn't give us a lot of info right now and I think that's because SS is playing on anti-spew. So with my current understanding of how the game works, SS is the correct slot to flip if we want to maximize the amount of info Town has at a more crucial point later in the game.

isn't this saying "SS is scum but we should flip him later, not now"?

did i misunderstand that

i see you were voting SS at the time and continued doing so for a while so maybe i did

Why would it benefit us to keep a scum slot around which is playing on anti spew vs others which presumably aren't? This feels like a thinly veiled excuse to throw my name around.

can you please just explain what you meant bc i don't know how else to interpret that

obviously i don't think it would benefit us but i wasn't gonna question it

believe me i would not ever throw your name around and invite interaction unless i thought it was useful to do so

The strategy is to flip scum slots in order of their activity level, or their likelihood to reveal information about their scum team. So leaving a slot like S_S alive to flip until endgame is suboptimal because once we've verified they're scum we don't learn anything. That's why I was pushing Dann D1 instead of Baltar, S_S D2 instead of Dease or w.e, because I want the more active scum slots around to create spew which can be reread at endgame. A slot which is playing on anti spew or lurking won't be creating as much spew. So by saying S_S is playing on anti spew I was saying it's a good bet to flip them now rather than later.

ok thank you that makes more sense

[scamper]

You don't think Tweet would do more if it was their job to carry the team?

not really, no

repping into a scum slot in a 200 page game wuld be demotivating for most players and tweet isnt especially motivated as scum. if her teams not doing well i culd easily see her phoning it in. i dont think trying to base reads off that sole event is likely to be too useful

[Frogsterking]

You don't think Tweet would do more if it was their job to carry the team?

not really, no

repping into a scum slot in a 200 page game wuld be demotivating for most players and tweet isnt especially motivated as scum. if her teams not doing well i culd easily see her phoning it in. i dont think trying to base reads off that sole event is likely to be too useful

Okay. In other games I've (correctly) suggested the scum were a pair of lurker slots and got shot down so I'll try to be more open minded.

[scamper]

im not, like, saying its *impossible* tweet got bussed by someone but i wouldnt just assume it by default

[Frogsterking]

im not, like, saying its *impossible* tweet got bussed by someone but i wouldnt just assume it by default

I'm assuming you didn't care much for S_S responses to my line of questioning when you looked through his iso earlier?

@all

Did anyone compare if this is worse than Town!S_S usually puts out?

[GuiltyLion]

im not, like, saying its *impossible* tweet got bussed by someone but i wouldnt just assume it by default

yesterday at the time I thought there may be a busser cause a) vig game and b) the wagon on MT felt like it kinda sprung up with confidence fairly quickly, but then when I reread a bit last night I realized Tweet was pretty scummy and I just hadn't really been paying attention to that thread of the game, and the only slots I'd really consider for bussing are Dann/fireisred

and Dann's opening today felt kinda townie

I had a TSQ/Gamma paranoia for a moment but independently TSQ feels pretty townie to me and I think there was one Gamma post I thought felt really unpartnered, let me see if I can find it again

[GuiltyLion]

shea, is there a reason why you're pushing primarily gamma for that, when i feel like multiple people this game could fit that description to a similar degree?

Because gamma is the biggest example to my mind and also the one I think I might get some traction on.

Who are the others in your mind?

No one is interacting with what I'm saying or taking me seriously so if the way I have to get my reads actually considered is to be elimmed then thats what I'll do.

I doubt anyone is going to consider your reads very heavily if you get elimmed, especially if you go out doing this.

The exception maybe is if you start yelling "AFTER I DIE KILL X". But if you want to do that, at least try to push through X today and force a 1v1.

Tomorrow look at Gamma with any degree of seriousness.

I also am low key worried about ydrasse, something_smart, guiltylion, dannflor

Don't feel like getting into a 1v1 because I don't feel strongly enough about any read to do that.

this feel incongruous to anyone else?

I think it was this

it feels neither meant to anti-associate gamma with TSQ nor meant to pick a theatrical fight with them

instead it feels like scum discrediting town to me