Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Datisi]

i don't think it's clearing, no

we know vpb noticed that gamma voting eira was A Shit Move, so if you're scum i don't see a reason you don't notice that either

that said, i am kiiind of having a hard time imagining scum!vp telling scum!gamma that her vote on scum!eira is shit, so like idk?

[Frogsterking]

My opinion is that all three of the "scummy" category (S_S, Dann, Shea) are actually Town, and there is at least one scum hiding in the "Null" category (Obscure...) and probably one scum who was on Tweet.

[scamper]

Has anyone looked at fireisred/gamma interactions yet?

I am going to do that at some point today (realistically probably late tonight) but I'm thinking about a fire vote myself due to lack of appealing options elsewhere currently and it feels like fire's wim has kinda gone down as the game has gone on

fire what are your overall opinions on the GammaTweet lim, like do you think that was all town and scum got caught off guard or do you think there's any scum who were angling to look good off it

i looked at it early, fire voted gamma early and then back down, they wound up townreading each other later and not interacting much

nothing really concrete

[Frogsterking]

I think that the D1 Towncore was probably all-town *squints at Dease* and scum were able to avoid landing at the

very

bottom of the PoE

sort of

but haven't been able to do any more than that all game, and have been harassed fairly heavily. I've been voting Menalque for a long time if anyone would like to test my theory.

[Ydrasse]

[s_s, fire, guilty, mena, frogster, deas]

find town in here game easy

[scamper]

I kind of half want scamper to claim the real target since I assume it's a clear on a generally ??? slot and my PoE is getting tighter.

Unless the gunsmith thing was also just fake. I suppose thats actually probably more likely. Hard to know where the real ends and the reaction test begins.

i dont actually have a n2 result. if people really want to alleviate the ~burning air of mystery~ i can just claim if its deemed necessary

[GuiltyLion]

I'll explain the vote later
and I don't fault you for not remembering anything I've done, I've not really tried to do much because it's not my MO in large games to actually do a lot early

ok so gamma says this

and basically eira has done nothing at this point and is getting replaced so there was no reason to delay explanation so this just seemed extremely fake to me. i did not believe that there was genuinely a reason that gamma could have that would not need to be explained right away (see 1447)

relly then did this:

VOTE: Gamma will explain when I have more time

which i thought was clearly referencing the "will explain later" from gamma that made no sense and so i was like "ok yes, nice, let's do this" and voted gamma

and then relly's explanation later in 1882 just felt kinda flat and wasn't at all what i thought it was so that was kinda weird btw

later gamma's explanation seemed kinda bad but idk i started to doubt myself eventually bc i felt like i scumread gamma for similar things in frenemies

oooo this is a good catch

the danger of doing ISOs and not a full context read... I did not pick up that Relly's vote may have been a jab at Gamma

[GuiltyLion]

actually yeah that whole sequence is probably very +town for Dann

[Nero Cain]

whats so good about it?

[fireisredsir]

rereading the section after MT replaced in

+town to nero obv for the continued pressure with good reasoning

+town to dann for not really letting up and keeping questioning her, plus the way she talks about him kinda feels like she knows he's town?

deas... not sure. i would like to believe that he's just town who was right on gamma and probably on SS too. i think if for some reason he was bussing gamma then he would be likely to continue in the manner that he did. im not gonna give him minus points for not doing the fairly natural town thing of kinda stepping back and giving the replacement a slightly clean slate, bc his approach was correct and probably just better in general, but i think it does differ a little bit from how others approached it. fine with treating as town for now anyway

+scum to shea for the immediate pushback on people voting tweet while also framing the narrative to be that he was right all along but people just wouldn't listen in 5328. don't care if he says nobody is ever allowed to think that he might be willing to push a partner who is unlikely to live to elo anyway. that post is scummy. so is 5339.

i think maybe the most interesting thing is seeing the part where there's sort of a consensus agreement that tweet is scummy, and then GL starts pushing obscure and ausuka cases me and... we end up back on tweet. whoever was key in moving things back to tweet there is probably the towniest fmpov, since scum had multiple other directions to go (at least one, obscure could be scum ig, but why not bus the inactive slot). ok now that ive said that, continuing to read

aaand it's dann. immediately votes tweet after the case on me drops when he 100% easily could have tried to help shift momentum to me. dann is probably just town

deas pushed back directly on the GL obscure case. if he's bussing, he really is dedicated to getting gamma flipped.

shea then votes tweet instead of following the ausuka case so he can also have some townpoints (as a treat). i think once dann and deas stick on tweet tho the writing is kinda on the wall already

shea's suspicion of frog also kinda scummy ughhh i don't want to talk about shea i don't have the energy for that

ok after this i went and reread shea's iso for how he handled gamma and while i do think that the constant insistence on making sure everyone knows exactly how much he's always wanted gamma elimmed and everyone told him no is weird, i don't think it's an especially likely path to take as scum so he's probably town

[fireisredsir]

[s_s, fire, guilty, mena, frogster, deas]

find town in here game easy

it me

it probably frog

it hopefully deas

it hopefully guilty

is that too many

[GuiltyLion]

@Nero - when I had just ISO'd Irrelephant and ctrl+F'd gamma, I thought it was unlikely that he would drop a vote on a teammate and say "will explain later" as I virtually never see scum do that and it doesn't suit any tangible agenda

given the fuller context that

Gamma

had actually already done similar, if Relly was just trying to meme on her with the vote, it creates a possible explanation of scum being cheeky with their vote on a buddy. even regardless of Relly's alignment it explains where the motivation for that phrasing comes from, which makes it a bad reason to TR that interaction

[fireisredsir]

i thought at the time that irrel was referencing gamma in phrasing it that way but the fact that he never brought that up again makes me less sure of it

[fireisredsir]

i feel better about voting obscure/mena after rereading some btw

[GuiltyLion]

ok after this i went and reread shea's iso for how he handled gamma and while i do think that the constant insistence on making sure everyone knows exactly how much he's always wanted gamma elimmed and everyone told him no is weird, i don't think it's an especially likely path to take as scum so he's probably town

when I was rereading this earlier I also noticed shea was fairly vote-hoppy despite claiming to scumread Gamma throughout, they vote Smart with their first vote, then Gamma quickly after, then themselves in a fit of AtE (but saying to still look at Gamma after they die - could be WIFOM), then DV, then Fire, then obscure...

so I dunno, I don't think it's as hard of a bus as TSQ implies

[scamper]

lmfao okay, i thought it was a Hot New Mafia Term that i wasn't aware of

i did note in my mind that if irrel is scum, then he spent a decent amount of time day one loldistancing with his buddies (vpb, gamma), which like, i don't know *why* you'd do that and irrel doesn't strike me as a player who would prioritize something like that as scum

i guess? i'm fine leaving shea alone for now, especially if the majority also says so

he did some token distancing early on in the most recent scum game i could find but it was also from 4 years ago

[fireisredsir]

ok after this i went and reread shea's iso for how he handled gamma and while i do think that the constant insistence on making sure everyone knows exactly how much he's always wanted gamma elimmed and everyone told him no is weird, i don't think it's an especially likely path to take as scum so he's probably town

when I was rereading this earlier I also noticed shea was fairly vote-hoppy despite claiming to scumread Gamma throughout, they vote Smart with their first vote, then Gamma quickly after, then themselves in a fit of AtE (but saying to still look at Gamma after they die - could be WIFOM), then DV, then Fire, then obscure...

so I dunno, I don't think it's as hard of a bus as TSQ implies

i think that's true but id rather treat him as town for now ig, maybe im just lazy

[scamper]

okay, then do something that is hard for you to replicate as scum?

*gestures at my ISO*

xcuse me? wut have u done this game that is hard for u to replicate as scum?

[scamper]

i should probably read before replying, nvm that

[GuiltyLion]

i think that's true but id rather treat him as town for now ig, maybe im just lazy

yeah, I mean I think trying to talk yourself into that kind of narrative when there's still compelling off wagon suspects is bad play by the probabilities, I mainly just kinda want to push back on full TSQ townclearing cause I think if we get down to the point in the game where most slots have died off and they're still coasting on "can't be scum with Gamma" you have to look more critically at whether that's really true or not

it's one of those things that's town like 70% of the time but shouldn't be the be all end all if other stuff isn't adding up

[scamper]

i do not really like the actual reasons in 5950 but w/e this probably isnt helpful to talk about

[fireisredsir]

i think that's true but id rather treat him as town for now ig, maybe im just lazy

yeah, I mean I think trying to talk yourself into that kind of narrative when there's still compelling off wagon suspects is bad play by the probabilities, I mainly just kinda want to push back on full TSQ townclearing cause I think if we get down to the point in the game where most slots have died off and they're still coasting on "can't be scum with Gamma" you have to look more critically at whether that's really true or not

it's one of those things that's town like 70% of the time but shouldn't be the be all end all if other stuff isn't adding up

ok yea cool i support that mindset

[fireisredsir]

actually yeah that whole sequence is probably very +town for Dann

whats so good about it?

@Nero - when I had just ISO'd Irrelephant and ctrl+F'd gamma, I thought it was unlikely that he would drop a vote on a teammate and say "will explain later" as I virtually never see scum do that and it doesn't suit any tangible agenda

given the fuller context that

Gamma

had actually already done similar, if Relly was just trying to meme on her with the vote, it creates a possible explanation of scum being cheeky with their vote on a buddy. even regardless of Relly's alignment it explains where the motivation for that phrasing comes from, which makes it a bad reason to TR that interaction

wait @GL how do these connect

[GuiltyLion]

6111 is about 6106, not 6107

my thinking in 6107 is that bad empty Eiralox vote and Datisi's point in 6100 makes me think Gamma/Eiralox is not S-S

[fireisredsir]

oh nvm ok you were responding about the good catch