Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Ausuka]

Sorry if I'm angleshooty? I definitely understand the angle that it *shouldn't* be part of the game, and I agree, but it seems even worse to pretend it doesn't have implications when it very much does? Idk.

[Nero Cain]

Gamma just replaces out as scum alot. I'm town but I think gamma repping out is an odd reason to town read me

[Something_Smart]

Sorry if I'm angleshooty? I definitely understand the angle that it *shouldn't* be part of the game, and I agree, but it seems even worse to pretend it doesn't have implications when it very much does? Idk.

nah don't be sorry, I didn't really get into the questionable stuff. but if I thought about it too long, I probably would.

[Nero Cain]

meh skitter/obscure/mena is getting another replacement isn't it

If he doesn't respond in 22 hours we can just lim the empty slot instead of torture someone else. It's already claimed.

[Thestatusquo]

Can we do the same to the mod for the one votecount in 3 days?

[Thestatusquo]

I don't have a lot to add here right now, I feel like the gamestate is stagnating but like I don't really feel like I can do anything to change that.

[Dannflor]

I mean personally I'm just kinda waiting for a vacant slot to stop being vacant

[Frogsterking]

i haven't followed as closely as i could but i haven't been struck by someone being so overtly scummy i want them dead this instant and have bounced back and forth on people like fire, who i guess in my head just kind of slots into the place of "yeah wolf"

but then fire posts like "i sus frog a bit" which like yes, same hat, because frog very... mechanical and not in the like mechanics itself sense but more doing this or that and it's a sequence. this is vague but like the point is the fire thing resonated with me, a bit. so i can find points of reference and think oh well, i'm thinking that so maybe a little towny.

I feel

moderately

certain that you're onto something here in that I would choose to play more mechanical as scum, and it's a valid tell because I wasn't really self aware that my play had started moving in that direction. I think Ausuka posted some insight earlier which I also wasn't self aware of and is useful for differentiating whether my play is AI:

having frog's isos in large normal 238 and this game side by side;
- first thing i notice is that wild theories and stuff is something he does as scum too and wildness isn't town indicative for him
- i think his play in that game is cleaner. i don't think it's something i see, like, completely cleanly or confidently, but in general he seems to be more focused on pushing a single player, and his reads make more sense; i guess it would make sense to me that the difference is he's scum and is inventing reads in a relatively simple manner vs what town frogster actually comes up with?
- i would disagree that he's notably more co-operative in that game. frog in this game appears to be stubbornly anti-gamma, even suggesting FB is trying to 'bail out' Gamma in 1781 just for coming in and doing things that aren't gamma related. when scamper argues that gamma is town he is willing to unvote despite this, and in general his strategy d1 was basically just pushing the people the consensus townreads agreed were probably scum. i don't really know what this strategy means for his alignment and have no experience with this kind of play, but it's very co-operative! he's asking a lot of questions of people and working with them. If anything he seems *less* co operative in the scumgame, because
- frog in the scumgame seems very... persistent, to put it mildly. a lot of his posts are basically just blank reads and i feel like he has made way too many posts that are some variant of 'we should eliminate yeet' on day 1. he's play acting about having strong reads, i guess. i'm not sure scum frog would play scum the same way in every game, but maybe it means something somehow?? idk im kinda struggling to find much meaning in this

basically frog is one of the people i have no baseline expectations of and i'm not confident meta on him will actually be useful because i don't understand him at all. i think there are differences between the two games but nothing clearing

I think the difference in compliance is significant and I'm a lot more likely to double down as scum. For example, if scum!Frog wanted something different than what scamper wanted in 5645 then my trajectory since then lacks the persistence of trying to push an alternate agenda through while under the pretense of "this is the optimal way to move forward."

In writing this, I realized that there is a strong scum motivation to Shea's play in that Shea is very much trying to push an alternate agenda forward on fire while under the pretense of "this is the optimal way to move forward", so unfortunately I believe Shea must be re-inducted into my solve as an honorable mention and I FoS them somewhere alongside fire or dease if S_S flips traitor instead of groupscum.

[Dannflor]

Menalque (6):

Datisi, ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, scamper, Frogsterking

Something_Smart (5):

DeasVail, Nero Cain, Ausuka, fireisredsir, Cat Scratch Fever

fireisredsir (2):

Menalque, Shea

Nero Cain (1):

Something_Smart

Not voting (0):

Day 3 will end in 8 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate and 7 to no eliminate.

updated vc to the best of my knowledge

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of have the vague theory that player vote counts are more likely to come from scum than town because its an easy way to seem helpful and part of the thread without any accountability but I haven't actually put any effort into calibrating that or actually testing it with data.

Just a thought.

[Something_Smart]

I feel like making a player VC is highly correlated with wishing very badly there were an updated VC, which is a pretty normal thing for both alignments to want. If anything, I would expect town to do that more because they might be actually trying to evaluate the wagons and what they mean.

Also, this is just me, but I have a hard time imagining anyone going "I'm going to make a VC, and everyone will be grateful and townread me for being so helpful!"

[Something_Smart]

I tend to dislike the "scum try to seem helpful without contributing" arguments because, like, the fact that you're making that argument means that they're apparently not doing a very good job of concealing the lack of contribution. And because I don't think people tend to townread being helpful? At least, I don't.

[Frogsterking]

Haha okay Shea, gigs up. I see what you did now. Well played.

[Ydrasse]

i think it's nai for like a votecount but for stuff like mechanical claim information, etc that you're trying to list it can be more ai because you have subtle ways of actually controlling what you put out/presenting it a certain way that's harder to like. have it taken as malice "oh sorry yeah ill update"

[Thestatusquo]

Haha okay Shea, gigs up. I see what you did now. Well played.

I have literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Thestatusquo]

Did I use the word equity unexpectedly or something?

[Dannflor]

i am largely updating it for my own benefit, I am annoyed by the lack of them

I'd probably update it regardless of my alignment

[Dannflor]

this game is in a sorry state and I know I am contributing to that but I really have no will to go anywhere until something starts coming out of the mena slot

[Frogsterking]

Menalque

high certainty

-> S_S

medium certainty

-> Shea

medium-low certainty

-> Dease

very low certainty

-> fire

very low certainty

PEdit:

You seem a little defensive, Shea. Getting concerned?

[Nero Cain]

20 hours till lim

[Frogsterking]

Nero i can't believe youwere right about Shea

[Something_Smart]

Meh, I guess I'm coming around. Nero has also felt more reasonable today so I'm not really salty anymore anyway.

UNVOTE:

[Thestatusquo]

Menalque

high certainty

-> S_S

medium certainty

-> Shea

medium-low certainty

-> Dease

very low certainty

-> fire

very low certainty

PEdit:

You seem a little defensive, Shea. Getting concerned?

Nope. I don't think you have the ability to get a lim on me even if you wanted to.

[Thestatusquo]

Put another way, I'm not concerned with what you're doing as either alignment I don't think.

[Something_Smart]

This has a chance of making the game very interesting.

VOTE: fireisred