Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Ausuka]

i think in most worlds if we burn you, fire and menalque we win the game

how sure are you on guiltylion being town

i got the paranoia there after the s_s flip

i was pretty sure of it earlier! tbh my memory of this game is slightly foggy but i really liked his d1 and d2 play, especially the stuff around vp baltar felt really helpful while i was pushing him. and i know mafia can and do bus but it felt genuine and legitimately useful at the time

that said i Did Not Love the way he shaded me at the start of the day for voting on wagons without substantiating it so he was one of the ppl i was gonna review

i think datisi/scamper paranoia isnt that helpful because iirc we have enough room that we can leave it for a while and if they don't die then it's suspicious

Well, this is why I want the info now if it exists. Killing scamper tonight is the level 0 scum play and I would argue its already kind of suspicious that both are alive.

i definitely agree but it doesn't, like, outweigh the inherent improbability of that situation to me, at least not today

like, i think scum having some sort of role that caused them to make this play is more likely than datisi happening to have a GF-esque role or scamper making that play as mafia

if scamper is still alive later i will see your point a lot more

[Ausuka]

what about that is "so confident" exactly

confident enough to not want to do Things??? I guess???

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here.

I feel like a townie's natural impulse is towards Doing Things because they want to win the game and they want to look cool in doing so. You obviously seem confident enough in the current consensus reads that you don't feel the need to put in effort.

I'm asking where that feeling stems from for you. Is it that you feel good enough about scum being in me/fire/mena? If so, what about our play makes you feel that way and why?

is it because your town reads are so rock solid? if so who do you feel best about as a town core and why?

The disconnect is that I said I was going to do things and that the fact that it had a good chance to be actively unhelpful just makes me less motivated? Like it's the start of the day lmao what on earth are you talking about with this "obviously you don't feel the need to put in effort" bullshit

I have definitely put in significantly more effort than most people in this game.

[Dannflor]

I thought you were saying you weren't going to effort too hard because you thought the game was solved

[Ausuka]

"what about our play makes you feel that way"

This is weird talk for someone who apparently was paranoid about my slot and checked my ISO. I don't think I've been unclear about my feelings here, *especially* about fire

[Ausuka]

I do think some of my townreads have become stale so I will do some reviewing today

[Dannflor]

This is weird talk for someone who apparently was paranoid about my slot and checked my ISO. I don't think I've been unclear about my feelings here, *especially* about fire

to be clear I'm going down this road explicitly because I have your ISO open in another tab and have *worries*

[Ausuka]

you have so many worries that you forgot why i was scumreading fire?

I would expect someone with genuine "worries" to not ask such empty questions

[Dannflor]

ok i think im miscommunicating here

obviously I know you're scum reading fire

[Ausuka]

This really just feels more like performative paranoia to me

like, your questioning isn't really engaging with any of the reads or content i've given at all

[Dannflor]

yes, there is a reason for that

I know your reads, obviously they are largely consensus reads. my intention is to get at whether your feeling of "the game is probably solved" is genuine or not

and so I'm trying to figure out what you feel best about on an emotional level

[Ausuka]

you said you have my iso open and have worries.

Instead of talking about those worries you ask me to explain reads I'm pretty sure I have explained, a lot in some cases.

You did this earlier as well. You're not talking about anything you're paranoid about, you're just making it clear you are very PARANOID AND TOWN without actually expressing reasons to be paranoid or your thought process.

[Dannflor]

like my paranoia is that you are someone who has been lumped into the town bloc after D1 without being reevaluated and I think the wanting to "go with the flow" despite having a passionate pet scum read on fireisred is kinda convenient for a potential deep wolf in that position

hence me trying to sus out where the feeling comes. I don't really care so much about the details behind your reads as I do what you *feel* best about

largely all of this paranoia comes from reviewing your progression on Gamma Emerald

[GuiltyLion]

Feels like Dann is making a mountain out of a molehill here, like in your own quoted words there's a "probably" in there so I'm not sure how assessing Ausukas confidence in their reads will really affect your read on them

Also @Ausuka if it helps at all I just think it's weird knowing my own alignment and seeing all three wagons go through without my vote

P-edit: @Dann can you highlight the parts of Ausukas progression on GE you find suspicous?

[Dannflor]

=I don't want you to explain reads exactly i want you to explain FEELINGS

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think its fair to say ausukas reads have been consensus. As someone who he was strongly reading as town while everyone else was trying to kill me and it being maybe the only thing that kept me alive in this game.

[GuiltyLion]

I'll let Ausuka respond but I guess I'm not seeing what kind of "feeling" would be townie vs scummy in your mind as it relates to this comment/topic. Like is more certainty in a solved game scummy or no?

[Dannflor]

i feel like i should have a gamma read but i don't. she's just kind of There

what about me makes you think i have a chip on my shoulder
what about my handling of her makes it not look right

I think you’re salty about last game and want to exact vengeance upon the one that sniffed you out, or at the very least you’re scared of a repeat

this feels wild enough to be +town ?

this is pretty much as far as it goes for direct sorting D1, and then Gamma just kinda slides into ausuka's top town reads without much further explanation

I agree that this sort of emotional stuff that feels overreacty isn't scum indicative for Gamma at all. I don't have a massive amount of experience with scum her, but one game I saw (schadd's open) had her... well, not massively different in emotionality, but much more flat.

I think CMM is a better wagon

and then there's this post that comes around a time late on D1 where it is possible wagon momentum could swing from CMM to me or GL or Gamma. and from that point forward there is *a lot* of soft defense from Ausuka > Gamma without a lot of actual interaction between the two slots?

from the other way around Gamma *never* seems to attempt to sort Ausuka at all. She just kinda throws her into top town reads early on and then she stays there

[Dannflor]

I'll let Ausuka respond but I guess I'm not seeing what kind of "feeling" would be townie vs scummy in your mind as it relates to this comment/topic. Like is more certainty in a solved game scummy or no?

I don't know what I'm looking for

I just wanted Ausuka to talk more about it and then maybe I would be able to sense whether it was genuine or not

[Dannflor]

from the other way around Gamma *never* seems to attempt to sort Ausuka at all. She just kinda throws her into top town reads early on and then she stays there

which I guess if I take a step back from conf bias lens this might make more sense if Ausuka is a townie who Gamma didn't feel the need to fake-sort because they've been so consensus town

I guess scum tend to try to look like they are sorting their buddies regardless of their position in the game

[Ausuka]

I would strongly disagree with the idea that people have not been re-evaluating me since d1. Nero was scumreading me earlier and iirc people were discussing me often on d2

I very much do not understand the feelings angle either. My feelings and my reads are not separable as I understand it. I feel that fire is likely to be scum, I feel bleh about you and mena, I think DV improved but would still be someone I look at, I have towny feelings on the other players in this game.

I don't know why the expectation is that I am going to fight particularly hard for a fire elim when it looked incredibly likely they would be killed at some point.

I spent a long time making a case there and I don't think people really disagreed with it and people seemed a lot more willing to lim there afterwards. Like, if I think fire is likely to be eliminated d4 or d5 there is absolutely no reason to spend my time fighting for that d3 instead when I was also suspicious of SS.

Pedit: I do not recall gamma being one of my top town reads ever. I am going to need you to provide quotes for that.

[Dannflor]

oh then the fire case came right at a pivotal moment during the day of the Gamma/Morning Tweet elimination but eh

[Ausuka]

Like, I did my job as far as I'm concerned! Even though I was busy I spent a long time making the case on Fire I was asked to make. The implication that I would have to hyperpost to make fire die earlier because they are a somewhat stronger scumread of mine is so ??? to me

pedit: morning tweet would never endgame and I would not attempt to save her as scum

[Ausuka]

Like the implication here is what.

I spend my time building a fire case so tweet, who flipped mafia goon, gets to die one day phase later.

I kind of feel like you are making this up on the spot.

[Dannflor]

Pedit: I do not recall gamma being one of my top town reads ever. I am going to need you to provide quotes for that.

Spoiler:

I think this genuinely reads as fed up of the interaction and is probably +town for Gamma because I think a scum distancing thing is more likely to be interesting for Baltar

what about me makes you think i have a chip on my shoulder
what about my handling of her makes it not look right

I think you’re salty about last game and want to exact vengeance upon the one that sniffed you out, or at the very least you’re scared of a repeat

this feels wild enough to be +town ?

Ok so my reads list is something like

{Irrelephant, Marci, Nero, scamper, Ydrasse}
{Aristeia, Gamma, Guiltylion, humaneatingmoney, obscure, xofelf}
{Deasvail, Firebringer, Froggy}
{Datisi, fireisredsir}
{ConManMick, Dannsflor, VP Baltar}

Ftr I am starting to reconsider Datisi because even though I think he's been scummy I suck hard at reading him and I don't think he's doing much in the pursuit of like being Super Town and positioning himself for endgame? Does that makes sense??

Also these reads are more "vibes" than "people sorted by actual probability of being scum based on their scumrange and my ability to read them"

i could vote gamma

but i won't because i don't scumread her

gamma does that, like, all the time though

maybe i don't understand what you mean then? shrug. i just know i often feel like gamma is reacting to something somewhat disproportionately from what i'd expect

I agree that this sort of emotional stuff that feels overreacty isn't scum indicative for Gamma at all. I don't have a massive amount of experience with scum her, but one game I saw (schadd's open) had her... well, not massively different in emotionality, but much more flat.

I think CMM is a better wagon

I mean no one has engaged with my push on Datisi apart from Datisi and scamper who grossly mischaracterised it to discredit me. Maybe I should self vote as well

I guess I'll go back and read about the Gamma stuff but I was townleaning him, I scumread him last game for not taking strong stances and he was town and I don't think she's ever pinged me this game

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

One of these days I'm going to do a deep dive of some gamma scum games and try to determine if this tone thing everyone keeps talking about is actually true because I really just don't know but I feel like she has to have SOME amount of this stuff in her scum games.

Also, congrats!

Thanks!

Gamma does have some emotional stuff - I had a game with her in it where he was scum and like iirc she seemed a bit less fluid than here and still had emotional posting to some extent but not quite like this? Honestly, I can't say I understand Gamma that well but it seems like it should be +town for him?

Fwiw nero I understand why you're suspicious of Gamma slot but I thought similarly about her last game I played - at time she seemed like sitting on the sidelines and only fanning the flames of conflicts iirc, like calling both sides scummy - and she ended up being town, so I don't really want to scumread him for that

pedit: can you point me to where marci has been solvy in a way that hasn't been trivial to fake? I might have missed something

probably obvious but i also prefer marci over gamma!

[Dannflor]

Like, I did my job as far as I'm concerned! Even though I was busy I spent a long time making the case on Fire I was asked to make. The implication that I would have to hyperpost to make fire die earlier because they are a somewhat stronger scumread of mine is so ??? to me

pedit: morning tweet would never endgame and I would not attempt to save her as scum

I don't recall implicating this