Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Datisi]

why are you obvtown and why are the cases on you bad

there, translated

[Frogsterking]

why are you obvtown and why are the cases on you bad

there, translated

I'm obvtown for the reasons you and Shea were saying until you both inexplicably decided to flip your reads on me. The cases are bad because they're written from the point of view of players who are desperately trying to convince themselves I am scum. I probably wouldn't make half the posts in my ISO if I were scum and I don't understand what you think I was trying to accomplish when I made these so-called associative tells.

[Datisi]

i mean

my reason for you being "obvtown" is you being toxic as shit at parts in the game

and like, that only gets you so far, especially with the poe being what it is

so do you wanna present an alternative reason(s)?

[Frogsterking]

and like, that only gets you so far, especially with the poe being what it is

I think there's a less than 5% chance I put this much effort and creativity into a scum game and that the way I've gone about this game is how I would choose to apply that energy if I did. I'm looking at this PoE and it's really not as tight as you're implying. I think you're anchored into seeing frog!scum because of bias and you're expecting some news breaking rationale for why I'm Town.

[GuiltyLion]

so-called associative tells.

surely you should recognize that defending and campaigning on behalf of flipped scum is not a good look

you might be town that did that but it's not really at all ridiculous to say you shouldn't be townread for it

[GuiltyLion]

I'm looking at this PoE and it's really not as tight as you're implying.

who of the uncleared players would you bet the game on being town?

[GuiltyLion]

Datisi, I'm not claiming.

Titus, everyone else has already claimed

you're not withholding any information from scum at this point

[GuiltyLion]

I don't think Guilty Lion's reasons to town read Fire are very good because I don't understand what GL actually expects scum!fire to do differently in this situation. Hard push both Frogster and GL as scum after CSF flips scum? That doesn't really make sense. Fire just needs to leave the door open to go back to suspecting GL later and all he has to do is town flip Frogster to do that. There's only one scum left (or at least there better be), so pushing two people when you want one person to help you this phase seems counterintuitive for scum.

I guess it's less that fireisred reversed tack once CSF was outed and more that he wrote an enormous case on me that he would know has an expiry date in the first place. Like CSF was in full anti-spew mode from the get, why go through the effort of pretending (or actually) rereading the entire game and write an enormous narrative for a fabricated scumread that you're willing to drop at a moment's notice. it's just not intuitive to me as what scum would do

it's possible that you're right. but on an instinctual level it just doesn't align with how I feel scum would play. I think scum would be generally more prone to enacting their long term agenda contingent on CSF going down, not setting up a gameplan that they'd then immediately have to scrap

[GuiltyLion]

I feel like you are doing the least of real-time solving this phase out of everyone left in the game

also, I'd like you to point me to where Frogster is doing real-time solving. All he's doing is insulting people suspecting him

[fireisredsir]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

[DeasVail]

I don't think Guilty Lion's reasons to town read Fire are very good because I don't understand what GL actually expects scum!fire to do differently in this situation. Hard push both Frogster and GL as scum after CSF flips scum? That doesn't really make sense. Fire just needs to leave the door open to go back to suspecting GL later and all he has to do is town flip Frogster to do that. There's only one scum left (or at least there better be), so pushing two people when you want one person to help you this phase seems counterintuitive for scum.

I guess it's less that fireisred reversed tack once CSF was outed and more that he wrote an enormous case on me that he would know has an expiry date in the first place. Like CSF was in full anti-spew mode from the get, why go through the effort of pretending (or actually) rereading the entire game and write an enormous narrative for a fabricated scumread that you're willing to drop at a moment's notice. it's just not intuitive to me as what scum would do

it's possible that you're right. but on an instinctual level it just doesn't align with how I feel scum would play. I think scum would be generally more prone to enacting their long term agenda contingent on CSF going down, not setting up a gameplan that they'd then immediately have to scrap

I think it's not out of the question for scum to do that sort of thing. It has the advantage of looking like townie effort (plus there was already some amount of suspicion around fire's reread not being townie enough), plus I don't think it's so much of a stretch for fire-scum to think "what would I do if I didn't know that CSF was scum?"

As much as frog is frog, I think that his talk of how he wouldn't be this creative as scum is... probably true?

[DeasVail]

Like I guess the whole point of scumplay is to not

look

agenda-driven and while often good townplay is about seeing through that, I trust fire as scum to be able to do things here and there that look like they do not have an agenda.
With fire I am picking at straws, but there also aren't that many straws!

[DeasVail]

Also re: Ausuka's suspicion on me etc. I'm not sure that Obscure's push on me is /that/ clearing. I feel like CSF trying to vote me instead of Tweet is probably more convincing, or even the me-Menalque interactions, but whatever people use is cool I guess.

I guess also as scum here I would probably be more performative about solving which is what I would think people would expect me to do (for example, like the most recent team mafia), but I unfortunately don't feel as confident about the remaining scum here.

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think Guilty Lion's reasons to town read Fire are very good because I don't understand what GL actually expects scum!fire to do differently in this situation. Hard push both Frogster and GL as scum after CSF flips scum? That doesn't really make sense. Fire just needs to leave the door open to go back to suspecting GL later and all he has to do is town flip Frogster to do that. There's only one scum left (or at least there better be), so pushing two people when you want one person to help you this phase seems counterintuitive for scum.

I guess it's less that fireisred reversed tack once CSF was outed and more that he wrote an enormous case on me that he would know has an expiry date in the first place. Like CSF was in full anti-spew mode from the get, why go through the effort of pretending (or actually) rereading the entire game and write an enormous narrative for a fabricated scumread that you're willing to drop at a moment's notice. it's just not intuitive to me as what scum would do

it's possible that you're right. but on an instinctual level it just doesn't align with how I feel scum would play. I think scum would be generally more prone to enacting their long term agenda contingent on CSF going down, not setting up a gameplan that they'd then immediately have to scrap

I think it's not out of the question for scum to do that sort of thing. It has the advantage of looking like townie effort (plus there was already some amount of suspicion around fire's reread not being townie enough), plus I don't think it's so much of a stretch for fire-scum to think "what would I do if I didn't know that CSF was scum?"

As much as frog is frog, I think that his talk of how he wouldn't be this creative as scum is... probably true?

To the last part: why?

[Dannflor]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

are they specific doubts

[Frogsterking]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

[Frogsterking]

sorry i don't really have much to add at this point

i did start to have some doubts but idk if it's useful to entertain them

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are stronger anyway

are they specific doubts

8584 does look an awful lot like a VI.

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: GL

I want to find out what happens when I vote here.

[Thestatusquo]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

[Frogsterking]

Whoever the two Town are in GL/fire/Shea, can you stop playing like shit for a second so I can find you? Thanks.

[Frogsterking]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

It sounds like you should reread my trajectory on Gamma because your selective memory is skipping a lot of important events so that you can rationalize your shitty frog tunnel.

[Thestatusquo]

I've reported that post. Please feel free to play the game and attack arguments, but stop insulting me personally.

[Thestatusquo]

My Town read on GL is plummeting rapidly. I'm starting to get similar vibes from them that I got from Gamma.

Ok I'm gunna need way more explanation on this one.

In what way is gamma similar to GL?

Also, if I recall correctly you defended gamma and then only moved onto her when she became MT. Is this wrong? If so can you give me posts where you suspected Gamma and then tell me how those posts are similar to how you feel about GL?

It sounds like you should reread my trajectory on Gamma because your selective memory is skipping a lot of important events so that you can rationalize your shitty frog tunnel.

So you're not going to answer the questions at all then? Feels like if you were town and really thought GL might be scum and that its in your trajectory you'd really want to help me see it.

But you're still arguing with me as if you're trying to argue with scum when you need to convince me that someone else is scum. Which is just like...a vibe I guess.

[Thestatusquo]

Anyway VOTE: Frogsterking

L-1 I believe.

[Frogsterking]

I've reported that post. Please feel free to play the game and attack arguments, but stop insulting me personally.

That's rich coming from you. If that post is considered a personal attack I probably just don't come back.