In post 148, MegAzumarill wrote:The difference you miss here is that Luto is doing this over a particular push they think is poor, either in intention or substance.
In post 150, MegAzumarill wrote:I mean its pretty clearly just giving a townread I don't see what you are saying
I mean wishy washy as in justification wise. It seems like a townread for townreads sake which could be easily made by mafia. The point I was trying to make is an apparent complete lack of attempt to solve in his ISO.
Seems like Meg doesn't like that I'm changing my reads based on a continual reassessment? Isn't that what town is supposed to do? Looking at Meg's ISO it hardly seems like they are trying to sort things out. They seem to be focused more on throwing shade and not really trying to engage as if they were a townie who doesn't already know everyone's alignment.
@Meg Why does it seem like you want all townies to just commit to their reads without changing? Don't you think that type of gamestate is most beneficial to mafia?
There's a difference between changing reads and continously changing reads. You are doing the latter and I feel like scum!you in this situation is very uncomfy with the game state and has to keep trying different paths to avoid being elimmed.
@Meg Can you explain how your behavior this game comes from an uninformed townie? You've basically spent the whole game informing everyone. It doesn't seem like you're sorting mafia at all.
I mean I've sorted you as mafia and been fairly clear with my reasoning. I can reevaluate tomorrow If I'm invorrect but I don't see what you are saying here
In post 153, BloodB0t wrote:Seems like Meg doesn't like that I'm changing my reads based on a continual reassessment? Isn't that what town is supposed to do? Looking at Meg's ISO it hardly seems like they are trying to sort things out. They seem to be focused more on throwing shade and not really trying to engage as if they were a townie who doesn't already know everyone's alignment.
VOTE: MegAzumarill
The context of this post feels scummy and defensive but it might just be bloodb0t being bloodb0t so I am kinda confused
either way ,I think their reasoning is definitely sound tbh although i dont see meg's read on bloodb0t like meg's other scum reads(owait there are none ) i still think their bloodb0t read is definitely fakable bloodb0t is an active solver so their elim just gives meg an advantage so like when pressure on bloodb0t was seemingly dying out they tried to get on them
In post 153, BloodB0t wrote:Seems like Meg doesn't like that I'm changing my reads based on a continual reassessment? Isn't that what town is supposed to do? Looking at Meg's ISO it hardly seems like they are trying to sort things out. They seem to be focused more on throwing shade and not really trying to engage as if they were a townie who doesn't already know everyone's alignment.
VOTE: MegAzumarill
The context of this post feels scummy and defensive but it might just be bloodb0t being bloodb0t so I am kinda confused
either way ,I think their reasoning is definitely sound tbh although i dont see meg's read on bloodb0t like meg's other scum reads(owait there are none ) i still think their bloodb0t read is definitely fakable bloodb0t is an active solver so their elim just gives meg an advantage so like when pressure on bloodb0t was seemingly dying out they tried to get on them because like if luto gets voted than eyes shift to bloodb0t(assuming luto is town if hes scum then meg just seems like someone trying to protect their ally assuming both are scum (personally i think luto might be town here)).Secondly, if bloodb0t is voted then we get rid of a good power player
Exactly, if Meg is town, then he's tunneling on me hard. And having "good reasoning" doesn't exonerate one from being scum or necessarily prove towniness. The two scums that I found in my last games had arguably the best reasoning in those games. It's entirely plausible for townies to be hunting and finding scum without being able to articulate a perfect reasoning for their findings. So the point of "good reasoning" is moot.
What matters more than reasoning is motivation. That's how I found scum in my last games while everyone was swayed by their "good reasoning". Sue me for being "too wordy" here, but that's also something arguably NAI.
I would consider sorting to be an operation of comparing different possibilities, but it looks more like Meg has simply 'targeted' me.
In post 161, BloodB0t wrote:Exactly, if Meg is town, then he's tunneling on me hard. And having "good reasoning" doesn't exonerate one from being scum or necessarily prove towniness. The two scums that I found in my last games had arguably the best reasoning in those games. It's entirely plausible for townies to be hunting and finding scum without being able to articulate a perfect reasoning for their findings. So the point of "good reasoning" is moot.
What matters more than reasoning is motivation. That's how I found scum in my last games while everyone was swayed by their "good reasoning". Sue me for being "too wordy" here, but that's also something arguably NAI.
I would consider sorting to be an operation of comparing different possibilities, but it looks more like Meg has simply 'targeted' me.
I don't really know what you are trying to say here. Could you reiterate (besides the me tunneling you part I got that)
Are you trying to argue I'm not pushing you based on motivations?
By motivation I mean that the purpose behind your actions seems to not be in line with town. I feel you are not motivated by the desire to create discovery in the gamestate, you are motivated by trying to restrict the gamestate to one that benefits mafia.
Anyways, I'm not really interested in getting into the weeds of my case against you with you personally. I think it would benefit town more to hear from everyone's opinion on the whole game and perhaps address any of their points/questions on my case if necessary.
FMPOV you are scummy and likely to flip scum, ergo pushing there helps town. If you are town then obviously limming you helps scum. That essentially boils down to you are wrong and therefore scum.
Do you have a reason why I would prefer pushing an active player as scum as opposed to one with little retaliation (i.e. Space, MC. Luto?) That would equally advance my win con as scum would it not? I in theory would have a NK to throw your way if I wanted you dead from your contributions?
In post 32, BloodB0t wrote:I'd carry this dead game if I knew how. So far Norwegian seems the most townie to me from the effort level, but there's not much competition, and... I guess it could be faked? Not much to go on here. But if we want to chalk things up to 'vibes', I feel Norwegian is being sincere.
I wanted to hear more from FancyPants before mentioning this, but his vote on me pings me slightly townie because it reminds me of how I approached the opening of my last game. Also a pretty vibes-based read.
town!Wayward was much more friendly and talkative during our last game. But I was also critical of him for that so maybe that could explain the inactivity. Still, going from one of the most active players last game to one of the least active players this game seems odd to me.
VOTE: MegAzumarill I love wagons. MegAzumarill seems to be doing the most to steer the game without providing much of substance to actually help town. Therefor, sus. That puts them at E-2.
In post 120, MightyCannon wrote:
Also many people are townreadig wayward rn for really no reason rn ,u can say the same reason for slots like NorwegianboyEE but i think their posts do feel genuine although there arent many indulging posts by them so i dont think they are a hard town rn
Yeah I'm not really sure about my town reads on wayward and NBEE anymore. Hopefully NBEE's promised upcoming reflections will provide something alignment indicative. Town Wayward from last game was also much more laissez-fair. I don't really like his push on Luto.
@Wayward Can you explain what about the whole game made you read me as town before you posted 46 because at this point I'm feeling like it could be a pocket attempt, just cashing in on my initial friendliness towards you.
VOTE: Wayward Son
As opposed to shooting at 4 different players for whichever sticks the best. Then settling on an OMGUS
(Not a fair comparison because RVS I know but still reflective of your play)
Mod Notes: Currently searching for two replacements: for FancyPants, who requested to be replaced out, and LutoTheController, who failed to post in time after being prodded. Due to the unfortunate timing, I may have to extend the deadline if it takes a day or more to find replacements.
EDIT: The deadline is actually October 22nd at the same time, not October 20th. That was a typo. Apologies for the confusion.
Last edited by Phenenas on Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
In post 165, MegAzumarill wrote:Do you have a reason why I would prefer pushing an active player as scum as opposed to one with little retaliation (i.e. Space, MC. Luto?) That would equally advance my win con as scum would it not? I in theory would have a NK to throw your way if I wanted you dead from your contributions?
Ask the scums who pushed against me for most of D1 and then ended up NKing me anyways after their pushes failed. My guess is that since I was one of the first sincere wagons in all these games that it would be easier to make an excuses for the mislim. Part of my "going too far in the opening" strategy is to get mafia on a wagon against me.
Anyways, I think at this point we're just talking past each other and this discussion is probably not benefitting town. I'm looking forward to hearing from the replacements and other people in the game. I probably won't be active anymore today. See you all tomorrow morning.
In post 104, Space wrote:
As of my 2 town and scum reads, I would say Bloodbot reads scum due to being defensive and aggressive seemingly at the same time
I've just ISOed LutoTheController and he is fitting this description incredibly well imo. See:
In post 115, LutoTheController wrote:
I think you are dodging my implied question. What exactly in my ISO do you find interesting? If you felt my interaction with Norwee were forced/insincere, then why not lead with that and not making everyone else do your homework?
In post 123, LutoTheController wrote:
So why didn't you mention this in the first place? It just seems like you want to rush a mislim on me and had to come up with something.
This combined with no game solving apart from a pretty wishy washy town read:
In post 70, LutoTheController wrote:I think Norwee is town. Their interactions they had just strikes me as a townie chatting everyone up.
seems very typical over defensive mafia. VOTE: LutoTheController
Yeah kinda weird. I could vote here I suppose. Good job buddy!
) i still think their bloodb0t read is definitely fakable bloodb0t is an active solver so their elim just gives meg an advantage so like when pressure on bloodb0t was seemingly dying out they tried to get on them
