Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who do you think would have been a likely elim had you not voted Frog? I can't see any other wagon as likely to go through, but I suppose I may be biased.

Assuming you and Frog were in an iffy spot, the timing for your vote would have been a typical bus because you would have tested a couple other wagons (me, Eira) first, seen they weren't gaining traction, then resigned yourself to bussing for the towncred.

The Day is still young, I think it's a bit premature to say the Day was destined to go this way or that.

I tested your wagon? I'm pretty sure I was town reading you and fairly heavily at that as well so that's just not true? Do you think the Frog wagon was inevitable when he had two votes alongside both myself and Bella? Because that's when I voted him.

That may just be a me thing, whenever I think about Solway I get this vision of you and Frog plotting the mislim in the scum PT, can't explain it better than that.

Yeah, this does nothing for me at all.

You talk to each other and ask each other for opinions, which makes it look like you may be giving each other a platform and working together to achieve miselims.

*You two* are kind of a meme because you often talk about each other. This isn't a serious point, it would be wholesome if you were scum together, but the RNG speaketh not in those terms.

OK, I kind of get that. I think I speak with Bella differently to almost any other player on this site because we have played together an awful lot and go back a fair few years. I think Bella speaks similarly to a lot of other people in the same way she does with me though so, meh, not sure on that side.

They supported the Solway wagon.

VOTE: Solway

** This is -1 **

Yeah I'm not feeling this VT claim, something major is off in Sol's tone these past few posts. I'll be trying my best to be back in 5 hours, hectic morning here.

Can you show me his support before he joined the wagon with this post?

[Firebringer]

BBT ur read change on aisa is pretty jarring

[Firebringer]

So my current townblock is myself, Eira, Grib, and Firebringer.

i don't want to be in ur dirty rabbit block

[Firebringer]

2. Firebringer looks townier by the day. I don't know that he would be this motivated to power solve the game if he were scum and he keeps showing some depth with his posts.
3. I was so jealous that Shea finally shook FB out of his tunnel on me from the grave when I couldn't do it all of Day 1. But FB is tunnelling me again so it's all good hehe <3

i am actually null reading u now but i can't help but see most of ur posts as scummy and the fact ur so unnaturally relaxed. Unfazed by anything just makes me think ur playing an act.

even ur effort seems to be distinctively ignore questioning/pushes on u and just keep solving which i don't think is outright scummy but is concerning.

[Firebringer]

Talk about how Grib's reaction gives you a town read?

seemed to be too inclined to talk about things that wasn't apparent that i think scum would keep to thesmelves. it was actually pretty strange to start talking about saying was shading shea to save em? Idk maybe its too self concious and is TMIng. It seems like too many things saying that scum wouldn't need to say that attracts attention

[Firebringer]

My approach, generally, is to find town: I've spoken about this a lot recently, even in the personality test. It's what I'm struggling with here: I think if could just lock town like, you, grib, fire, bbt and Eir that's a lot, but I'm really iffy on you and grib and bbt.

can we revisit ur townreads from say day 1. Like how did u get BBT town from ur interactions. I had skimmed it and like BBT basically never talked to u. One or two mentions and it wasn't some discussion i would say indicates anything to anyone.

So lets talk about it

[Eiralox]

I can everything

Can you tell me bout your feel on Grib?

[Eiralox]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

mantis stance @_@

[Eiralox]

2. Firebringer looks townier by the day. I don't know that he would be this motivated to power solve the game if he were scum and he keeps showing some depth with his posts.
3. I was so jealous that Shea finally shook FB out of his tunnel on me from the grave when I couldn't do it all of Day 1. But FB is tunnelling me again so it's all good hehe <3

i am actually null reading u now but i can't help but see most of ur posts as scummy and the fact ur so unnaturally relaxed. Unfazed by anything just makes me think ur playing an act.

even ur effort seems to be distinctively ignore questioning/pushes on u and just keep solving which i don't think is outright scummy but is concerning.

so if i'm reading right you're saying Aisa can be scum cos they're relaxed and focused on solving?

what type of spin even is this?

[Firebringer]

i don't think we can communicate with one another.
i swear

[Eiralox]

i think i've asked something pretty simple: why would Aisa being relaxed and solving make u think they're scum? why does relaxed = act?
why is being focused on solving instead of defending, while not scummy as u said, 'concerning?'

Aisa has been offering some solid input D2 as far as I see it and u coming saying 'Aisa concerns me cos they're solving not defending' just doesn't hash out to me on any level

[Firebringer]

no man, im done talking to u.
we can't communicate and im not here to bridge the dialogue.

i don't even care to figure out of ur scum or town in this engagement. I am annoyed and not engaging. Figure it out on ur own or call me scum.
Idc which.

[Eiralox]

i asked something simple and you're straight up dodging. you do you, but you're not feeling funky, after what you just did.

idc how you feel on me nor my style of talking, i don't like your approach here, what your saying makes no sense, and that's that.


So sure pass me by like a raging wind, that ain't mean imma let what you do slide.

[Firebringer]

well if ur not gonna vote me and try to get others to vote me. i don't see how i don't just "slide" away from whatever kind of questions this is.

i have two questions for u and honestly want the answers since ur not a dodger like me:
1) would me answering those questions help u in anyway on ur read on asia or me?
2) Why do you think this is the second time we have had a huge misunderstanding of what I said?

[Eiralox]

1. if u've been reading, you'd know how i feel on Aisa. Regarding you, if you answered my questions instead of whatever this is we might have gotten somewhere.

2. Yeah I don't care, either you answer or you don't.

[Firebringer]

2. Firebringer looks townier by the day. I don't know that he would be this motivated to power solve the game if he were scum and he keeps showing some depth with his posts.
3. I was so jealous that Shea finally shook FB out of his tunnel on me from the grave when I couldn't do it all of Day 1. But FB is tunnelling me again so it's all good hehe <3

i am actually null reading u now but i can't help but see most of ur posts as scummy and the fact ur so unnaturally relaxed. Unfazed by anything just makes me think ur playing an act.

even ur effort seems to be distinctively ignore questioning/pushes on u and just keep solving which i don't think is outright scummy but is concerning.

i really don't know how else the question came up except for ur bias read on aisa. I have written so much on my aisa read so to take this post and twist it to be like im calling aisa scum because just is relaxed and solving.....
Like its very annoying to see.

[Firebringer]

i wonder if this is how bellaphant feels.
Except with her persistance on "i explained it and ive been very clear" ive read her iso like 5 times and its not anymore clear to me than the first read

[Eiralox]

Yeh this much the same like when we hashed out on bella tbh: that one post you didn't like was town-indicative to me, and here again were you saying aisa being 'unnaturally relaxed' is scummy, like for me them being calm and considerate, that vibe, is one of the main pivots of my tr? so not fair to call it a bias read, Aisa has felt very level-headed to me so again we seem to be forming wholly divergent conclusions here.

So you're annoyed? What can I say? I guess if someone says something that I have a wildly different take on i'll say it, and probe them on it. But yeah I did get you weren't scumreading them for it, and your vote's on bella(which i still don't get), but if something that to me reads green comes of scummy to you? And then you saying cos Aisa is more blaise about defending themself and instead focused on solving they sus?

I guess I've said it a few times by now, but I just don't get it.

But I also get how I can come off as pushy, so straight up i'm still sus on you for this but for the sake of thread clutter i think it's better if I cool down and try to engage with you on a normal level, whenever that may be

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: BBT

I feel like BBT is just voting me to save his own butt and it's kind of obvious?

He didn't just question the wagon - he stated he had a town read on you and then proceeded to question it. My whole problem is a) where did this read come from, b) why was it so strong and now c) why is it so damn difficult for him to explain?

You may not need a strong read to question a wagon - but Eira himself said that his read was strong so I would like some justification for such a strong early game read given his actions of wanting to push back on the wagon.

If wagons are so fickle, why did he feel the need to defend you? You have made what I feel is a stretch of an assumption in that you think Eira was talking about later information gathered. Why would I care about that? I am specifically asking about an early game read - I don't care what got posted 15 pages after the fact.

The posts quoted are not just showing Eira not explaining the read, but the fact he keeps saying that he will explain the read and doesn't do it. Constant dodging. He also says he understands the suspicion (appeasement?) so I'm a little confused as to how you're not seeing it.

My case is this;

Eira town reads you based on gut (and says the read is strong)
I ask him to explain this read
He refuses to explain it but says he will get to it eventually before continually dodging
When he does finally get around to it he tries to use later posts that didn't exist to justify an early read and that's not how it works
Then he finally gives up because he can't explain it and refuses to engage

He said he would explain the early town read on you.
He hasn't.
He has now refused to explain it.

How is that not a change in his position?

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

I also have outstanding questions addressed to you

VOTE: frog

Can you expand a little on your Eira and Grib reads?

I don't think I have liked any of Frog's posting this game, especially D1. There is plenty in my ISO.

Aisa is town because Eira is scum.

VOTE: Frog

The quotes above just look like desperate scum flailing (1113 and 1114 especially) and then looking for an easy target to pull down with him. BBT tries harder than I've ever seen them try as Town with their Eira case and then apparently gives up instantly and starts shopping for a Frog wagon instead (1118.) Out of all the player's voting me, BBT looks the least like they actually believe I'm scum. It also looks like it was receiving support from Bella (1122) which caused BBT to vote me so that's making me lean Town on Bella off a BBT scum flip.

[Frogsterking]

Also, there is like nothing about me inBBT's iso but he says something like "you can read it all in my iso" (1123.) I just checked his iso to verify and there's nothing about his frog case there and his pivot onto me in 1118 looks as opportunistic on a reread as it did at first glance.

[Frogsterking]

Bella and BBT have a lot of partner equity. BBT and Frog also have a lot of partner equity. I was gonna say it could also be Elements + someone, but on closer inspection / consideration she doesn't have very partnery vibes with anyone in my PoE, a good sign.

This also looks bad. How do BBT and Bella have any partner equity? Also, if you think BBT is scum with everyone why are you refusing to vote them?

[Frogsterking]

Bella and BBT have a lot of partner equity. BBT and Frog also have a lot of partner equity. I was gonna say it could also be Elements + someone, but on closer inspection / consideration she doesn't have very partnery vibes with anyone in my PoE, a good sign.

This also looks bad. How do BBT and Bella have any partner equity? Also, if you think BBT is scum with everyone why are you refusing to vote them?

Also I don't fully understand the point of that last line in 1140 at all. It looks like you wanted attention from Elements so made some shit up about them?

[Frogsterking]

[...]
Aisa, can you talk about those partner equities?

Sure.

Assume you and Frog are scum: you're both in an iffy spot today, it's fairly likely the elim will be between the two of you. In a situation like this I think it's quite natural for scum to bus, your jump onto Frog is perfectly timed to be just that. You were both on the Solway wagon.

You and Bella: if Bella is scum I think she is softly" trying to mess with that townblock I was talking about by saying she feels iffy about me, Grib, Eira, etc. and you're "enabling" her big time. Also, you are kind of a meme and it would be neat if you two were the same alignment.

Also, why doesn't Scum!Elements back track a scum read on Scum!Frog when a wagon picks up

Wait, you're right, that actually doesn't make any sense, I messed up the chain of logic somewhere

Oh. I mean, my question still stand stands though.

[Frogsterking]

Maybe I'm overreacting, but if that case on me is the best Tadpole can muster, then I don't feel especially inclined to change my mind. It seems like a really easy shot for scum to take. Frog, do you think you could talk me through a bit? How is making "pockety" posts scum-indicative? How else does my overarching play reflect a scum agenda? Who are my partners?
[...]

Bonus question @Frog: do you have any

medium

or

high

certainty reads?

Yeah I think BBT is scum with like

moderate

certainty now and I think you're scum with

low

certainty.

[Aisa]

Who do you think would have been a likely elim had you not voted Frog? I can't see any other wagon as likely to go through, but I suppose I may be biased.

Assuming you and Frog were in an iffy spot, the timing for your vote would have been a typical bus because you would have tested a couple other wagons (me, Eira) first, seen they weren't gaining traction, then resigned yourself to bussing for the towncred.

The Day is still young, I think it's a bit premature to say the Day was destined to go this way or that.

I tested your wagon? I'm pretty sure I was town reading you and fairly heavily at that as well so that's just not true? Do you think the Frog wagon was inevitable when he had two votes alongside both myself and Bella? Because that's when I voted him.
[...]

I mean that Frog tested my wagon.

I admit I see Bella possibly going through as the elimination and that Frog became a lot more likely as a result of you and Bella voting there. I almost want to reflexively push back that you could still be bussing for a reason or another.

Also, the whole point of post 1140 is to float some random ideas I had and maybe have a discussion, I won't be able to defend all of the ideas in that post to a high standard.

They supported the Solway wagon.

VOTE: Solway

** This is -1 **

Yeah I'm not feeling this VT claim, something major is off in Sol's tone these past few posts. I'll be trying my best to be back in 5 hours, hectic morning here.

Can you show me his support before he joined the wagon with this post?

No, because admittedly I don't remember them offering much prior support. You wondered about any stances Eira had except their town read of me and I told you about one, that's all. I'm not going to argue it's not an

opportunistic

stance, because it could be.