Newbie 2104 | Wikipedia Articles | Game Over!

[thewingfan]

I can relate. there's a certain team in Columbus....

I've told my 8 year old that when its time for college he can go to any other school on the planet but that one.

I have made it very clear if he plays sports at that school I will be actively rooting against him every game.

[faüstiv]

me, thewingfan and whoever else wants to jump on the wagon.

we are coming for you, scum.

[Datisi]

Replacing ceejayvinoya and Maestro.

[kkirigiri]

Put us out of our misery catboi.

[faüstiv]

we should wait to hear from the replacements.

[Maestro]

Prodding ceejayvinoya and Maestro.

I'm going to be blunt: I strongly believe the game is already over and that faustiv is the last scum. I have had to wait around for 2 days doing nothing but arguing back and forth with him as he tries to flail his way out of this. (his recent post to wayward demonstrates his scumread on me is entirely unserious). I have had to wait around for 'final input' from 2 players who have likely both abandoned the game. If we hit the threshold for them being replaced, I'm going to just end it because I think it's a waste of everyone's time to wait for replacements in a game that's already over.

this post is unnecessarily combative/rude. I happen to agree with you and have no huge addtl input from my skimming; Faust is Scum and my preferred vote for today; that has not changed; I don't know what even

could

change that if we're being honest and realistic, and perhaps it's tunneling best solved by a replacement but if I am being replaced fine, I am on PT at the moment, which is off for me, and caretaking for a friend and I had very much thought a PM I sent counted as being considered V/LA buuut ok with me either way!

[Datisi]

BlueBloodedToffee replaces ceejayvinoya.

Maestro returned.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll read up on this as soon as I can.

[catboi]

Prodding ceejayvinoya and Maestro.

I'm going to be blunt: I strongly believe the game is already over and that faustiv is the last scum. I have had to wait around for 2 days doing nothing but arguing back and forth with him as he tries to flail his way out of this. (his recent post to wayward demonstrates his scumread on me is entirely unserious). I have had to wait around for 'final input' from 2 players who have likely both abandoned the game. If we hit the threshold for them being replaced, I'm going to just end it because I think it's a waste of everyone's time to wait for replacements in a game that's already over.

this post is unnecessarily combative/rude. I happen to agree with you and have no huge addtl input from my skimming; Faust is Scum and my preferred vote for today; that has not changed; I don't know what even

could

change that if we're being honest and realistic, and perhaps it's tunneling best solved by a replacement but if I am being replaced fine, I am on PT at the moment, which is off for me, and caretaking for a friend and I had very much thought a PM I sent counted as being considered V/LA buuut ok with me either way!

I didn't meanintend for that post to be rude to you and I'm not sure what caused it to be taken that way, if it was the suggestion you abandoned the game I'm sorry, I made an assumption based on 3 days of absence, again was not my intention to do that to you

[thewingfan]

Welcome back Maestro

[Maestro]

Thanks, vote Faust, there's no better way to prob end the game

[thewingfan]

As much as I want the game to end so I can get out of here I'm not going to be doing that.

[catboi]

VOTE: Faustiv

I'll respond to stuff in postgame that feels relevant but kind of disappointed in myself this game, I wanted to set an example and I don't really think I did well in that regard.

[Datisi]

VC 2.final

Shitposting

"In Internet culture, shitposting or trashposting is the act of using an online forum or social media page to post content that is satirical and of "aggressively, ironically, and trollishly poor quality", an online analog of trash talk.[1][2][3][4][5] Shitposts are intentionally designed to derail discussions or cause the biggest reaction with the least effort, and are sometimes made as part of a co-ordinated flame war to make a website unusable by its regular visitors.[6]"

votes

[4] faüstiv

:

kkirigiri, Wayward Son, Maestro, catboi <<< HAMMER

[2] catboi

:

faüstiv, thewingfan

[1] Not Voting

:

BlueBloodedToffee

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate

The Day 2 deadline is in

: (expired on 2022-11-09 10:59:43)

Mod Notes

: dual mod iso can be found

here

!

[Datisi]

faüstiv was a...

Spoiler: flip

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to the game, faüstiv!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Night 2 begins now and ends in (expired on 2022-11-08 02:00:00)

[Dannflor]

kkirigiri was found dead in the night. They were...

Spoiler: flip

Vanilla Townie

Welcome to the game, kkirigiri!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when there are no longer any threats to town.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[Dannflor]

VC 3.START

Ancient Egyptian Literature

"Ancient Egyptian literature was written in the Egyptian language from ancient Egypt's pharaonic period until the end of Roman domination. It represents the oldest corpus of Egyptian literature. Along with Sumerian literature, it is considered the world's earliest literature.[1]

Writing in ancient Egypt—both hieroglyphic and hieratic—first appeared in the late 4th millennium BC during the late phase of predynastic Egypt. By the Old Kingdom (26th century BC to 22nd century BC), literary works included funerary texts, epistles and letters, hymns and poems, and commemorative autobiographical texts recounting the careers of prominent administrative officials. It was not until the early Middle Kingdom (21st century BC to 17th century BC) that a narrative Egyptian literature was created. This was a "media revolution" which, according to Richard B. Parkinson, was the result of the rise of an intellectual class of scribes, new cultural sensibilities about individuality, unprecedented levels of literacy, and mainstream access to written materials.[2] The creation of literature was thus an elite exercise, monopolized by a scribal class attached to government offices and the royal court of the ruling pharaoh. However, there is no full consensus among modern scholars concerning the dependence of ancient Egyptian literature on the sociopolitical order of the royal courts."

votes

[5] Not Voting

:

Wayward Son, thewingfan, BlueBloodedToffee, Maestro, catboi

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

The Day 3 deadline is in

: (expired on 2022-11-14 20:59:55)

Mod Notes

: dual mod iso can be found

here

!

[thewingfan]

So ummm yeah regarding faust being town.....


https://media3.giphy.com/media/gmg7s5bBQzlN6/giphy.gif

VOTE: catboi

Not gonna convince me otherwise. Noway nohow

[catboi]

I'm really frustrated and annoyed with myself for how Day 2 played out. I said I was going to re-read everyone in the game but I let faustiv's awful tunnel distract me. That's not to put any of the blame on him; while his read on me was bad and full of logical flaws I still reacted over-emotionally and let it cloud my judgment. I should have done better than that and I'm sorry for how I reacted. However, there's no use in moping over it now, there's still a game to be played. I've gone to the trouble of exhaustively re-reading every player overnight, like I should have done yesterday, and I figured out who the final scum. I've written up every player in detail in my notes and I'll present my conclusions in the following series of posts.

[catboi]

Fennec

's content in the game is limited, and I could certainly take issue with it as I did on Day 1. The performative cursing, the vague, hedgy reads, the fact he was unable to keep up with the game are all +scum behaviors in my eyes. His defense of Sterling as "town dumbass" makes my eyetwitch:

I only recognise Catboi, but as I haven't been on this site for long at all and half the players here are also new, that was kinda only expected to know 1-2 people.

Reads and bullshit like that
Everyone else not listed: Has done the equivalent of fuck all content, so reads = Basically impossible for them

Sterling - Possibly Town -

Doesn't give off scum vibes at all, just gives off

Town Dumbass

vibes. Still too early to call him specifically

Town

yet. (Your not a dumbass, but compared to everyone else, you'd be specifically the most clueless)

Kiri - Possibly Town -

Currently seems like a reasonable person. In general, voting my predecessor wasn't a shit move I'll give you that, but they didn't really send much besides that so still not giving me fully

Town

vibes. For now, I consider you as well, You can see the thing next to your name.

Maestro -

Can't read you currently,

but kinda confused on the whole,

Scum

pm thing. Faustiv, I don't agree nor disagree with your idea with this guy being

Town,

but would be nice to have a slightly bigger explanation of the

Supposed Townness

of that thing.

Catboi/Thynhith - I want to see more between these two. to me, this could be

TvT

but to me, it seems more likely that this is a

T

v

M

, but there needs to be more interaction to gauge this.

Oh and yes, I'm gonna continue to color shit as much as possible because why the fuck not

However, the fact that sterling was the ONLY person Fennec committed to a townread of strikes me as far more bold than newbie scum typically are. That on its own gives me a slight pause.

What gives me more pause is sterling's vote on Fennec:

seeing how kkirgiri who played mafia on other sites before, and judging how she was able to get a read very early, I guess she's more used to playing by reads rather than power roles, I'm inclined to believe her feels. as well as Cat having suspicions and groups being able to make better guesses than individuals VOTE: Fennec

I still personally have stronger suspicions on maestro but the group is stronger than the induvial

The rationale is weak and sheepy, following along with mine and kiri's logic. If I had to guess, I would say this is NOT a bus vote, and merely an opportunistic one on a competing wagon that Sterling saw as an easy target. I think the dynamic makes less sense if fennec were trying to defend sterling and sterling was bussing - more typically you see scum either both defend or both attack one another.

I don't have as much to comment on about

Wayward Son

, the issue is that it's much harder to get a read one someone when they're replacing in with only one scum left. I got slightly worried his posts were going with the flow and not adding much to the conversation but that was kind of how the whole day went yesterday.

I'd like Wayward to elaborate a little more on his reads but right now my leaning is that the vote from Sterling is not a vote on a partner.

[catboi]

ceejay is a troubling one because there are worlds where I

could

see his progression on Sterling as being on a partner: putting him as town initially and quietly moving him to a scumread without making too much noise about it.

However, looking again through his IS I think these post are critical:

Fennec isn't voting anybody? That's a bit unusual. It's starting to get late.

I sort of want to vote fennec but sterling is on the same wagon and I don't know how to feel about that...

VOTE: Sterling

Looking back on it now I feel like doing anything involving faustiv today is probably not a good idea.

Asking for votes on anyone who isn't Fennec/Sterling/ceejay seems like you're just committing for the votes to be split.

@catboi is it common in newbie games for town to fail to eliminate anyone in the first round? Just getting wary that we might be going down this road as it stands, we've not got anyone to E-1 so far, and only Fennec has faced E-2, and only for a few hours.

I've never seen it happen, and in theory we should do everything we can to avoid it. Usually any elim is better than none. Ceejay and Sterling are still my preferred elims for the day. I'll be interested if Fennec returns from inactivity just to hammer someone.

Well no one seems to be in hammer range for now. Truce and let's vote Sterling?

The vote here is a critical one, because ceejay avoids voting Fennec and puts Sterling at E-2, while trying to get more votes on Sterling, leading to sterling's fakeclaim. I think if they were scum together ceejay would be much more likely to try to push fennec as the counterwagon.

I don't think him doubting the claim is necessarily alignment indicative, if I squinted really hard I

could

see this as an instance of TMI/him being aware he claim would get countered and wanting to look good when it did.

I don't really like this claim btw. If he really is a PR I think he would have been more proactive to protect his role and I don't really feel like laying low is town cop behavior even if he's new.

However, I think his responses to being questioned by kkirigiri and me on his sterling read actually erad as incredibly genuine:

Fennec isn't voting anybody? That's a bit unusual. It's starting to get late.

I sort of want to vote fennec but sterling is on the same wagon and

I don't know how to feel about that

...

VOTE: Sterling

Looking back on it now I feel like doing anything involving faustiv today is probably not a good idea.

You say you don't know how to feel about it, yet you vote Sterling anyway, which suggests that you kinda do?

How sure are you that Sterling is scum, personally? I'm not trying to undermine you just for the sake of it, I still want to vote Sterling myself, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable if you had come to that conclusion independently and were more sure of yourself.

This will sound bad to you but I probably didn't scumread him as strongly as you do.

The way I play is mostly to collect townreads and help elim the rest, though sometimes if I'm reasonably sure someone could be mafia I try to push that.

ceejay's progression on sterling actually makes no sense, looking at it

It's weird but I'm not really seeing anything yet that catches my attention, except for faustiv who I have no idea how to sort.

catboi feels like town.
maestro feels like town but I wouldn't mind seeing more.

Kyouko hasn't really done anything yet except sit on her early read. Might check again later.
Sterling? idk could be town.

Rose and Thynhith disappeared.

Rockhopper didn't show.

I'd rather push Thynhith for now.

VOTE: Thynhith what do you think of the game so far?

oh, and on ceejay too - i literally forgot he was in the game when i was writing that post

I usually like this because there is less pressure on me but this almost feels weird.

I wasn't included in any reads lists so far and I haven't interacted with anybody either since Thynhith.

No complaints though.

out readlist

Probably town. idk I'm not good at mafia:

kkirigiri, catboi

in that weird state between "probably town" and "I don't want to elim these today":

maestro

I don't want to elim these today:

wingfan, Thynhith, fennec?

Everybody else:

faustiv, sterlingsteampunk

Fennec isn't voting anybody? That's a bit unusual. It's starting to get late.

I sort of want to vote fennec but sterling is on the same wagon and I don't know how to feel about that...

VOTE: Sterling

Looking back on it now I feel like doing anything involving faustiv today is probably not a good idea.

Like, I could maybe get the "idk could be town" on sterling early on degrading as time went on and other people have been doing more than him, but still go there and put a vote on him with no real explanation doesn't sit right with me.

One of my problems with him which made me hesitate to slot him as possibly towny was that his early posts feel like newb town to me but as the game progressed he got stuck in that state and I don't really see any motivation for him to participate or play or whatever.

It feels like something newbie mafia could do, lose motivation to play the game earnestly because they already know who's mafia.

Something like "this will sound badto you" feels genuine because scum are usually less willing to admit they know their reasoning sounds bad - they can make up any reason so they usually

try

not to sound bad. The explanation for his progression on his read and the decay of it also feels believable, I don't think it's impossible for scum to fake but he stands by his early read rather than shying away from it and feeling a need to distance himself from it which suggests not feeling guilty about it. Generally speaking when scum bus they try to take credit for it but ceejay's vote was so low-key that Im disinclined to believe it was a bus.

Now look here. If I'm mafia, the least I could have done yesterday is wait for a cc or something, and THEN hammer Sterling.

I would have at least wanted some info in exchange for a doomed partner or something.

Sure this certainly doesn't auto clear me, that's fine, but I just want to say I'm no dumbass and would certainly try to play optimally whenever I can.

I also think the fact that ceejay opened Day 2 saying he would have waited for a counter claim reads genuine - I think if as scum he was legitimately aware thyn had CC'd he wouldn't think to play ignorant about it, and the "I'm no dumbass" line carries a bit of personal pride to it that I think is less likely to come from scum in that situation but scum don't usually tend to brag about how they would have played better as scum.

I guess the other concerning thing is that sterling literally never so much as acknowledges ceejay's existence. Scum can do weird things sometimes though, that's a circumstantial point at best.

I wish I could say I'm super confident on this, I'm not, but I think ceejay's slot is more likely to be town than not. I might metadive him later to shore up the read when I have time but that could take a day or two.

[catboi]

I think there's basically no way

Maestro

is scum. Calling out his partner Sterling for slipping would be egregious play as scum, tunneling Sterling persistently the rest of the day would be outright gamethrowing aand I doubt he attempts such a risky play as scum in a newbie game. If he were intending to merely distance I don't believe he'd be so persistent in his callout of sterling, making posts like this:

seeing how kkirgiri who played mafia on other sites before, and judging how she was able to get a read very early, I guess she's more used to playing by reads rather than power roles, I'm inclined to believe her feels. as well as Cat having suspicions and groups being able to make better guesses than individuals VOTE: Fennec

I still personally have stronger suspicions on maestro but the group is stronger than the induvial

hoo boy this post, feels like ultra-sheep scum flying under the radar to anyone else? "The group is stronger than the individual but I have done no work to try to convince the group of my individual assertion that Maestro is Scum, so now I will just sheep somebody else who has been more nice to me than mean ol Maestro who is Scumreading me so I Scumread them back..."

like what

@ Faust you have to stop using the L word, I'm surprised mod hasn't warned on it yet tbh

I will post more when you all are more interesting, why the votes on Fennec? Maybe I missed something

Here he dosen't let his scumread of Sterling rest as it is and attacks a newer post he made, continuing to give him no space whatsoever. If Maestro were intending to merely distance I'd expect him to not be that loud about his read but he continued to aggressively pursue it and push others to vote Sterling. I would expect scum in this scenario would be more quiet and allow town to get distracted by other votes. For instance, he didn't have to intervene into me getting into a fight with faustiv if scum:

and bc of Catboi/Faust going at it like they did this page and last, POE says Sterling so c'mooooooooooooooooon Faust you have to know why I was going down on this and it's bc of the scumslip anymore

Even if I were to allow myself the paranoia that Maestro was making an aggressive play, I think Sterling's reaction to him is outright clearing:

when do you consider RVS to be over? because I'm just not as good at getting reads due to the way the game is played on amongus and Town of Salem so really I don't have a good reason to vote anyone, Also isn't it your job to help new players out? instead you just started a bandwagon on me due to a confusion, also what about my confused comments did you glanced that I had a private thread? because the player list haven't been updated when I first posted. you know, trying to start a bangwagon on a new and confused player is pretty sus to me therefore VOTE: Maestro

wait, though... actually follow me on this:

"I got a role PM with a name that isn't mine"

*votes that name*

e.g. Role PM received by Sterling, which they didn't realize was also theirs, or for their slot's predecessor, made them vote their predecessor's slot

Sterling got a scum role PM

VOTE: Sterling

here you accuse me of having a scum role PM, which if true would means I have a private thread, however thinking back was still in the RVS, so you'd be fogiven for, however since I don't have anyone better to vote I'm sticking with my vote

well my thought process is I'm used to playing in powerrole heavy games, where we get most of our info from claims, counter claims, and investigation reports, because in ToS there can only be one Jailor, so if two player claims jailor we know at least one of them is lying, also in Town of Salem we're told what role killed the player, eg. SK Mafia Vig Vet Jest ect. so really I'm used to the game mechanics to give use our information.

the reason I've latched onto Maestro is because I felt as if he's found an easy scapegoat in the new player and that's really the only read I got from this game

The immediate OMGUS and attacking maestro back for pushing him just isn't from a partner, ever. This is newb-scum getting frustrated at being caught. The only possible cause for concern I have with Maestro is that he seems to have fallen off a little bit after Day 1, but the explanation about being busy makes sense and I would

only

get paranoid if he continues to be not very active. I think Maestro being scum is a very unlikely scenario that's not worth considering.

[catboi]

I actually think

thewingfan

is really obviously scum here and it became apparent the moment I actually took the time to reread the game. Other people were townreading him for stubbornness, and I think ultimately tha's a mistake, because I think these are personality traits, rather than alignment tells. Reading players that way is a mistake. I've been fooled in other games by writing off pro-scum behavior and bad arguments as being tunneled town. It's not a good way to play the game because you're just relying on attitude and I think that style of play is not that hard to fake.

If you bother to look instead at what wingfan has

actually done

this game, his play is extremely scummy and there's basically no justification for it.

So I'm new to this site and all. But play ALL the time elsewhere on forums. This thing bugs me a bit.

"Think less when posting, nobody will get mad if you're slightly unclear, just answer questions and show genuine interest, but I will get annoyed by Day 2 if I can't get read on you just fyi"

Where I normally play, we have players who I can't read by D5 or D6. But then again a day lasts like 8 hours normally there. D2 seems a bit impatient to me?

So I'm new to this site and all. But play ALL the time elsewhere on forums. This thing bugs me a bit.

"Think less when posting, nobody will get mad if you're slightly unclear, just answer questions and show genuine interest, but I will get annoyed by Day 2 if I can't get read on you just fyi"

Where I normally play, we have players who I can't read by D5 or D6. But then again a day lasts like 8 hours normally there. D2 seems a bit impatient to me?

Just fyi, D1 is 10 days and every game-day hence is 7 real days. So games can drag on for a looong time (but tend to speed up when we have more info). By the time D2 starts I have a good read on maybe half the players.
Anyway, welcome to the game! Looking forward to hearing fresh thoughts

Thanks, but i don't know how much help I'm gonna be. Other than wrapping my head around a single day here, being as long as an entire game where I normally play at. I largely play with the same core group of folks over and over so kind of know how everyone plays so that's a challenge too. Add in trying to learn a whole new set of terminology. and my long time stance that D1 is for excrements and giggles.

Gonna be a STEEP learning curve.

wingfan opens the game by talking about playstyle things and pre-emptively making excuses for his play. I actually think this is really scummy, because it serves to enter the game by lowering xpectatins for his own play. I think this is more likely to come from scum because scum tend to be self-conscious about their inability to contribute to the game in a way townies aren't. By opening and painting imself as useless he has a built-in excuse for not contributing later on.

The reason I find this so unnatural is that somehow, talking about himself was the FIRST thing that came to mind for the wingfan - not trying to commont on any of the cases being made or make any reads. It doesn't ead like a natural thought process at all - think about it, when you replace into a game, what's the first thing you do? Try to catch up and comment on everything. That winfan chose to argue about stuff pertaining to his own playstyle betrays a lack of interest in solving the game.

Finally, when we do get content from him, it's this:

So I'm new to this site and all. But play ALL the time elsewhere on forums. This thing bugs me a bit.

"Think less when posting, nobody will get mad if you're slightly unclear, just answer questions and show genuine interest, but I will get annoyed by Day 2 if I can't get read on you just fyi"

Where I normally play, we have players who I can't read by D5 or D6. But then again a day lasts like 8 hours normally there. D2 seems a bit impatient to me?

Just fyi, D1 is 10 days and every game-day hence is 7 real days. So games can drag on for a looong time (but tend to speed up when we have more info). By the time D2 starts I have a good read on maybe half the players.
Anyway, welcome to the game! Looking forward to hearing fresh thoughts

Thanks, but i don't know how much help I'm gonna be. Other than wrapping my head around a single day here, being as long as an entire game where I normally play at. I largely play with the same core group of folks over and over so kind of know how everyone plays so that's a challenge too. Add in trying to learn a whole new set of terminology. and my long time stance that D1 is for excrements and giggles.

Gonna be a STEEP learning curve.

do you have any initial reads?

Apologies if this is a double post.... but I wanted to make sure this got answered and even though I hit submit and was told it did get posted.....I don't see it.

VOTE: Maestro

I don't like how quick he was to jump on Sterling for what looked to me to be newbie confusion. I could very well be projecting my own confusion on to Sterling but this forum system doesn't make any sense-yet

A fairly straightforward chainsaw defense of Sterling, attacking Maestro for pushing him. This is the kind of mistake I think inexperienced scum are more likely to make, attaching themselves to their partner too strongly and over-reacting to suspicion on them.

VOTE: Maestro

I don't like how quick he was to jump on Sterling for what looked to me to be newbie confusion. I could very well be projecting my own confusion on to Sterling but this forum system doesn't make any sense-yet

I think Sterling's continuation from when he was first voted by Maestro is more telling than Maestro's scumslip theory.

I haven't cleared ANYONE as 100% town. At home site it takes me 3 game days (72 hours) for me to get an idea on who's bad and who's town. Also remember this is with a core group of folks I know relatively well so.....might take me longer.

What I did read Sterling as was a confused newbie to this site that asked an unfortunate question in the forum instead of PMing the Mod.

He could well be bad, but its not something I would think to hang him over.

Right now I'm just trying to poke a hornets nest to see what comes out. Which is is my preferred tool when I have no idea what the heck to do.

As for others outside of wanting to hang people for making me figure out mathematical equations I've got nada.

Bolded line is a dead giveaway - he openly hedges on his read of sterling after getting called on it, going "well, he

could

be scum". This is a typical newb-scum blunder - he's attacking Maestro but won't commit to fully calling Sterling town because wingfan aware of Sterling's alignment and doesn't want to call him town. So wingfan gives an awkward half-defense but tries to leave himself an out with the possibility Sterling could be scum. He calls sterling "an unfortunate newbie" but never actually explains why that makes him more likely to be town than scum.

Yeah the time to vote me for "jumping on newbie confusion" as some kind of punishment is long past

If you're talking about my vote. Keep in mind please that I JUST GOT HERE. I don't mean it to be a punishment. It was the one thing from my skimming of eight pages of discussion that stuck out. No one has to agree, and I am likely to move as we go along.

Immediately starts making excuses for his vote. This is ++scum because he doesn't want to be held accountable for his own vote, he made a fairly serious vote but his immediate fallback is "I just got here". Als, desopite the game only being eight pages, he claims to have "skimmed" it, which is showing a lack of actually attempting to read the game seriously.

I like those analyses by faust, at the very least I feel like I can firm up my estimation of him as town.

@Thynith, ceejay, what are your reactions? Do you feel as if he's arguing in bad faith, or do you think he's town who is simply wrong about you?

I know this wasn't directed to me but I found my self nodding along to faust's reasoning also.


VOTE: ceejay

I find it intriguing that you go for ceejay specifically though, especially when you're basically announcing that you sheep his reads, and then not vote the person that faust is actually voting.

This was more to create a 3 way tie. I know its a bit early given we have what 4ish days left but I was interested to see how things shook out.

Then he makes a bad vote on ceejay, with his only reasoning being "to create a 3 way tie", with no actual rationale as to how this is supposed to be useful or what it's going to achieve. If you look at the vote count prior to that vote, it looked like this:

Spoiler:

VC 1.4

Mini scule

Mini scule is a species of microhylid frog endemic to Madagascar that was described in 2019. The scientific name of the species refers to its size, being a pun on the word miniscule. It is very small, measuring only 8.4 to 10.8 mm (0.33 to 0.43 in) in snout–vent length. It has bronze underparts with a brown groin and back of the thigh, cream upperparts with brown flecking, a dark brown side of the head, and a red iris. It is known only from the Sainte Luce Reserve, where it inhabits areas with deep leaf litter near semi-permanent water bodies. Specimens of frogs from Mandena, the Vohimena mountains, the southern Anosy Mountains, and Tsitongambarika may also be of this species. Like other species in the genus Mini, it received media attention when first described due to the wordplay in its scientific name.

votes

[2] Fennec

:

Thynhith, Sterling the steampunk

[2] Sterling the steampunk

:

Maestro, kkirigiri

[1] faüstiv

:

ceejayvinoya

[1] Thynhith

:

faüstiv

[1] Maestro

:

thewingfan

[1] ceejayvinoya

:

catboi

[1] Not Voting

:

Fennec

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2022-10-31 21:18:19)

Mod Notes

: Please be more mindful of this rule: "For many years, the word “lynch” was used to describe the person who was voted out by town in a mafia game. We no longer allow this word to be used."

What this looks like to me is wingfan attempting to create a viable counterwagon to Sterling but having nothign to back it up with. He could have voted anyone, however:

- people had just called out Sterling's vote on Fennec as being bad, and that wagon was unlikely to be successful because of that. faustiv was hard defending sterling, so wingfan wouldn't have pushed him. The maestro vote was clearly a flop. Despite claiming to like faustiv's analysis, he instead votes ceejay with me, andnot Thyn with faustiv. If he's aiming for a tie, why does he not vote with the person he likes? Best as I can figure, several other players had expressed suspicion of ceejay, while few were scumreading Thyn and the reception to faustiv's case on thyn had people not buyin it. If there was any chance to a viable counterwagon to sterling, ceejay was it.

Also this @wingfan. It really is curious that I got voted in place of Thynhith without mention as to why. Do I look worse than Thynhith? Is Thynhith townier than I am? Are you convinced were both mafia?

I just answered this in my post to kk. I found myself nodding with faust a lot, and after looking at the counts I wanted to see who moved where in a 3 way tie scenario.

Again, the "create a tie" excuse feels super hollow given wingfan NEVER actually revisits these votes and tries to analyze them at all.

Then when sterling makes his claim, wingfan very blatantly tries to deflect again:

I do want to hear from the people who haven't posted since the claim but I decided based on what thyn is saying I'm okay with taking the risky path and voting sterling today.

Sorry for my absence yesterday. Unexpected dryer drama-as in it broke and we spent the day finding a new one and getting it installed....

And today I need to dispose of about a gazillion leaves-color me excited....

At any rate. I'm caught up tp this point.

Couple thoughts as I get caught up.

1. I have the philosophy that we shouldn't hang the scouts. Granted I'm used to games with more people and more roles and stuff. I did see people asking Sterling who he scouted. Question-Since we are still in D1, Has he had an opportunity to scout?

2. kk's fakeclaim. They didn't and said they thought about it to try to see who jumped. They didn't do it. Last game at home site, someone actually did this and we didn't believe anyone would be brazen enough to do this, but they did and it worked. Had kk done this and we hanged Sterling, and Sterling were revealed to be the cop after all we'd have had a MASSIVE distraction on D2 if not a runaway train. I feel better that kk said that they just considered doing it, and didn't, but I've ticked a question mark there.

VOTE: Thrynhith

sheep me. this is scum.

Personal rule when someone you think is town stands on a table....follow.

VOTE: Thryn

Again this feels typical newbscum, trying to buy another day for their partner. While I don't necessarily think believing the claim is damning in and of itself, the attempting at discrediting kiri doesn't sit right with me at all because it's not actually attempting to read into her motivation, and is taking a mild statement of

considering

countering but not actually doing it and making it out to be more than it is, which is fairly ridiculous. We then get the

third

attempt from wingfan to protect sterling by voting on a counterwagon to him. Notably, there is basically no reason whatsoever that wingfan has ever given for his townread on faustiv - simply that "I like his analysis". This is another typical newbie-scm mistake. I think wingfan was simply seeing that faustiv's posts were long and that he was defending sterling and decided to buddy up to him. Noermally when a newbie gives some agreement to a player and townreads them they can explain

what

they like, but there's none of that here. The townread on faustiv isn't a real thought from wingfan, there's no depth to it whatsoever.

In addition to all that, I think sterling's interactions with wingfan are incredibly awkward and don't really make sense as scum/town dialogue:

welcome thewingfan, now before we start, are you mafia?

welcome thewingfan, now before we start, are you mafia?

Thanks I've already posted some. No I'm not a baddie, and I'm not all to interesting either. But then I don't think anyone would freely admit to being a baddie would they?

thewingfan, I like you already

thewingfan, I like you already

Give it time. Not that I'm unlikeable but I come from the school of Spenser.

And Spenser's Crimebusters Tipbook since when you don't know anything annoy someone.

This feels...robotic. It doesn't make sense as scum buddying up to a townie, because wingfan hadn't actually posted anything of substance. and wingfan feels like he doesn't know what to do with it, the comment about annoying someone feels like awkwardly trying to push sterling away a bit by acting tough in response. The thing about these interactions s: I don't get the sense wingfan is trying to solve stering at all. There's no curiosity to what he's doing, he's not questioning sterling or trying to figure anything out about him. There's no concern even at being asked such a useless question It really feels like wingfan already knows sterling's alignment and doesn't see a need to really talk to him at all.

Then, notably, after he's hammered, sterling posts this:

it looks a bit sus that faust and wing fan are trying to start a bandwagon together, like more sus than anything I've seen so far, VOTE: thewingfan

oh I've already been hammered, GG

This "I've already been hammered" comment reads INCREDIBLY fake. People had discussed that there was a hammer on that page. Sterling attempting to come in and attack one of the people voting him also makes absolute NO sense as scum trying to save himself. I think it's significantly more likely that sterling came in and pretended to not know he was hammered to do some last-minute distancing by fosing his partner. That kind of move is incredibly typical of newbscum, they think that by attacking their partner when they're near dying it will make their partner look better.

Then, we get to Day 2, and it opens up with the bitterness over a potential massclaim. I had written this off as being townie but I realize now this is more likely than anything a playstyle trait, and while I had thought his "I don't care if you hang me for it" attitude was towny, I now realize it can just as easily come from scum who is bitter at possibly losing to a method they see as 'unfair'.

I also thnk again wingfan's buddying up to faustiv is fairly blatant TMI in hindsight, he's unable to give a single coherent reason for faustiv being town:

The fact that Thynhith was the NK also adds another

Have you considered the possibility that he's not the baddie and whomever is killed Thryn as a framejob?

I mean he screamed up and down late D1 that Thryn was bad. Steampunk got hanged. If he's bad why the bleepity bleep would he go off and kill the player he wanted to hang?

Either he didn't kill Thryn or he'd have to have schemed out being able to point to that argument, which he hasn't.

his "framejob" defense is self-contradictory and nonsensical. His defense of faustiv yesterday was very clearly setting up to push me today using faustiv's own scumcase against me propping it up. wingfan has been unable to provide even a single shred of original thought or reasoning this game. This is what he gives about his possible scumreads yesterday:

Both wingfan and Wayward look like votebait and I hope I get answers to them before the phase is hammered.

Votebait?

I still don't think faust is bad.

catboi suggests that my suggestion that faust could have been framed by another baddie with a kill of Thryn doesn't make sense. As immature or childish as my play might be if I were the baddie its exactly what I would have done.


Chaos bringer remember?

Bad TWF kills of Thryn and hopes for a chaotic dayand hopes faust gets hanged and then kills off a target hoping to frame someone else and so on.

My leans for the baddie are catboi and ceejay.

No elaboraion, no reasoning at all. And conveniently, ceejay and I were the two players others had been suggesting as possible scum on that day. wingfan is only latching on to popular reads and not adding any meaningful analysis of his own. By his own words, this is how he described his own playstyle a few posts earlier:

Basically, we're not going to win this game through role claims, and I actually find the frustration that the suggestion we claim to be suspicious? It has a hint of scum salt at what he perceives as an unfair strategy.

Hang me for it then. Didn't care when I got hanged for it before. Don't now. It was an honest question about game philosophy on this site. If I can expect every game I enter to jump to role claims I have no interest in playing here.

I'm used to games that are much less formularic.

I prefer to get into the nuts and bolts of a game, figure out who's who through pressure and detective work.

Mass claims in my opinion always favor the town. Don't have to be town to consider winning unfairly to be not cool. If you don't mind games like that that's cool and all.

Also-I like chaos. Have a reputation for being chaotic, and mass role claims take chaos out of it.

tl;dr. I care less about winning than I do having fun and the game being fair.

Does it feel like wingfan has been playing the game through "pressure and detective work"? I don't think so. The most he's been able to give are lazy, half-assed reads that are sheeping others. He didn't try to pressure me, he simply complained about the site meta here and got defensive over it. He didn't try to pressure ceejay at all. He did nothing in the way of "detective work" or pressure on Day 1. I think the way wingfan describes his playstyle is

probably

true of his town game - but he's exhibited absolutely none of that here. wingfan is fairly blatantly not attempting to solve the game. He is obvious scum.

[catboi]

VOTE: thewingfan

[catboi]

I know that's a lot but I feel like I've been playing pretty terribly lately and it felt really important to me to be able to solve this game. I want to play better than I have been because I feel the duty of a SE in a newbie game should be providing an example to other players of how to play and I don't feel as though I've been living up to that. I want to show the absolute best I can play as town.