House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Datisi]

i did look at it, and i am voting dwlee lol

[ProfessorDrapion]

This is hopeless, don’t be surprised if you get ML’ed next.

[GuiltyLion]

If Dwlee is scum, wh

You, Shea, Dann. Probably a fourth on wagon right now, maybe UNOwen or Mathblade.

For Dwlee to be scum, it is literally required that AT LEAST one scum bussed.

Yup, that is a thing that happens in mafia.

[GuiltyLion]

whoops didn't mean to quotesnip mastinas first question that far but hopefully yall get the idea, she was asking for scumbuddies

[GuiltyLion]

Roden, JohnnyFarrar also wouldn't shock me at all as scumbuddies

[Titus]

Sc2mafia is still a thing?

[MathBlade]

Intent to hammer

And like I wish Mastina had answered my question about what happens if we don’t flip them.

[MathBlade]

And let me further ask:

If Dwlee is scum, where is the actual counterwagons?

There has been no concentrated counterwagon to the Dwlee wagon.

There was a MariaR wagon yesterday--which fell apart.
There was a GuiltyLion wagon yesterday--which didn't manifest.
There has been ZERO coherent wagons today--meaning that there isn't a coordinated push from scum today.

So

for Dwlee to be scum, the scum must be making absolutely

ZERO

effort to save them.

Which is more likely?
That the scum have given absolutely no attempts to save their scumbuddy who if flipped would spew half the town as town and basically ensure that the town wins through PoE alone...
...Or that maybe, just maybe: Dwlee is town and scum are fine with Dwlee dieing?

Dwlee. is. town.

What’s more likely is Dwlee elim inevitable. Scum Shea tried to save them yesterday
Or
Dwlee was already a scum push to begin with so no need to push off
Or
Dwlee is town on town crime no need to push off.

Ranked in order given Dwlee doesn’t care to live.

[Titus]

Sc2mafia is still a thing?

I don't get how scum Shea is so high?

[MathBlade]

Sc2mafia is still a thing?

I don't get how scum Shea is so high?

Shea is very mopey and depressive right now. Soon as I sussed him he went from cooperative to angry. I believe the anger is genuine but performative. See earlier post for more on that.

Between that and the powers issue and how he hasn’t suggested or pushed anyone else Shea just feels super caught. I think Shea knows that Dwlee flips scum and that they’ll have to fight for their kingdom.

[Thestatusquo]

lmao ok.

[MathBlade]

Any other questions Titus?

[Andresvmb]

This is what I have right now: {Titus, VPB, Dannflor, UNOwen, furtiveglance}. Since I don’t know the flip, it’s hard for me to put GL in there, though honestly I probably would otherwise.

this is a good guard with me

do not listen to furtive, absolutely do not put mastina on the council

if Dwlee flips maf I would recommend overthrowing Shea, I think council needs to be people that would seriously consider it.

I think I want to see a flip before I argue for anything too strongly.

[Andresvmb]

This is what I have right now: {Titus, VPB, Dannflor, UNOwen, furtiveglance}. Since I don’t know the flip, it’s hard for me to put GL in there, though honestly I probably would otherwise.

i can get ur trying to fill this council with town reads but u realize VPB is gonna vote shea out of game right. If GL gets on he has already said he would too.

I think that if DW flips Scum, I certainly don’t want players that won’t consider it, as that would be a mistake. I’m also not convinced TSQ is Scum regardless, but I don’t want say mastina in there who is basically under tunnel vision right now.

[Andresvmb]

i think dwlee trying to point that they planned to interact with stuff as it happens when they are present. The facct they haven't been present means they haven't literally interacted in any meanginful way. Take for instance last pop in, was just asking for interactions but clearly not looking for things to engage with.

already agree with u dwlee is scum. Just think this isn't so much a contradiction as dwlee saying won't participate that much and basically following through with it.

I literally just asked dwlee a question while they were here and got no response.

Yeah I asked them thoughts about recent events (to see if reading to react) and might as well have gotten the shrug emoji.

The only part I disagree with suggestion wise in thread is Andres king if Dwlee scum. Should be brand new and king shouldn’t be anyone on the original council

This is ridiculous and should be ignored.

No one in the original Council should be in the next Council? Are you trying to guarantee Scum are on it? How many Scum do you see in the Council? Just quantify it. Don’t even name names.

[Andresvmb]

Because I don’t think the entire Scum Team are on the Council yes? Sure, Luke was NK’ed, so it’s possible that we’re heavy on Scum right now. Even then, it’s what, between 2 and 3? And that’s if we have TSQ Town. If TSQ Scum, probably 2 outside of TSQ (too many associative otherwise)? I don’t even care if I make the next Council - I’ll do my duty and try and make the right decisions. But this blanket approach should be rejected.

[MathBlade]

i think dwlee trying to point that they planned to interact with stuff as it happens when they are present. The facct they haven't been present means they haven't literally interacted in any meanginful way. Take for instance last pop in, was just asking for interactions but clearly not looking for things to engage with.

already agree with u dwlee is scum. Just think this isn't so much a contradiction as dwlee saying won't participate that much and basically following through with it.

I literally just asked dwlee a question while they were here and got no response.

Yeah I asked them thoughts about recent events (to see if reading to react) and might as well have gotten the shrug emoji.

The only part I disagree with suggestion wise in thread is Andres king if Dwlee scum. Should be brand new and king shouldn’t be anyone on the original council

This is ridiculous and should be ignored.

No one in the original Council should be in the next Council? Are you trying to guarantee Scum are on it? How many Scum do you see in the Council? Just quantify it. Don’t even name names.

A good chunk of it IMHO. A prior post names names.

A prior post has my susses. Are all of them correct? Probably not. Most? Probably.

[Thestatusquo]

The idea that I do this as scum to protect dwlee my lim bait partner who is doing absolutely nothing is just so ridiculous that I can't believe GL is saying it with a straight face. I would have bussed the ever living fuck out of them without batting an eye.

[MathBlade]

Trying to limit the post count so here’s things I think need addressing. This is not post by post but rather concepts to avoid spamming the thread.

1) I really don’t like how wagons are starting up counter to Dwlee. There have been very few attempts to explain why Dwlee is town but instead who we should elim. I find this scummy AF. (Yes there are *exceptions* to this but this is a generality). Dwlee themselves have expressed a lack of WIM and very much seem in shutdown mode. To those proposing an alternate elim without an explanation here, assume your elim is instantly flipped. What stops day three from being a repeat of day two which was a repeat of day one.

2) I really don’t like the mis characterization of taking over/in charge. Expressing confidence != taking over. I expressed a theory. It’s a theory I want to test with Dwlee’s elim. I don’t like how Shea is particularly walking back the TR of Dwlee either. If you had a TR strong enough to shoot Maria to avoid the elim you should be able to quantify that in a way that’s understandable so right or wrong you can be sorted. The lack of accountability is horrible

3) Roden wanting to catch up but ignoring questions. I asked a simple question in response to a long post he had and he ignored it. I am not in any PT that talks of overthrowing the king and talks only seemed to start after my suggestion in thread. I want to know who supports the king who would overthrow and who is ambivalent. Asking a simple question I hope can get an answer.

4) Andante’s reads make no sense. I struggle with a town or scum perspective though. A big flaw is assume I and Datisi are scum. Why are you against the new council suggestion I have? It feels argumentative for argumentative sake. Could be he didn’t like he didn’t have the courage to say it or scum trying to sound reasonable but it sounds anything but.

5) I really want to see Titus and LLD do more. Granted knowing them they were likely active previously but whatever alignment they are I want to see more of them.

Overall I scumread a majority of council for being extremely sus
Shea- Why shoot Maria? Why stop Dwlee elim? Why the power grants then? Seems more trying to be angry than trying to solve. Lots of active lurking.
Firebringer - Money related said we won’t talk money in thread but with Luke dying seems sus and would love an audit.
Andante - Reads don’t follow conclusions.
Andres - Towniest of the group but nervous he’s in lurker territory
Johnny - Likely scum if Shea is to keep council in scum’s hands. I don’t really like his play and think it’s off from town him.

I don’t think all of them can be scum and I am probably wrong somewhere but it’s enough bad vibes to want to reform the council with new people if Dwlee flips scum.

Datisi btw is the only TR I have in there (besides myself obviously)

[Thestatusquo]

If anything I think a dwlee green flip looks worse for me than a red flip and I'm sure I'll have to deal with disingenuous arguments about how I was TMIing their alignment even though I think the reasoning for limming them is classic lim the lurker where the lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

[GuiltyLion]

The idea that I do this as scum to protect dwlee my lim bait partner who is doing absolutely nothing is just so ridiculous that I can't believe GL is saying it with a straight face. I would have bussed the ever living fuck out of them without batting an eye.

the idea that you do this as town to protect a slot that is doing absolutely nothing is also extremely ridiculous.

[GuiltyLion]

lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

lurkers flip scum more often than random

that might still be majority of the time, because there are way more scum than town, but it's a much better scumtell than you give it credit for

also Dwlee is actively scummy beyond just lurking

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP - way more town** than scum

[MathBlade]

If anything I think a dwlee green flip looks worse for me than a red flip and I'm sure I'll have to deal with disingenuous arguments about how I was TMIing their alignment even though I think the reasoning for limming them is classic lim the lurker where the lurker flips town the vast majority of the time.

I think as I have stated before a Dwlee town flip looks better for you.

That was until you took up stock in Waffle House without pushing any other scumread. Still a little better on a town flip but not as much as before.

[Thestatusquo]

The idea that I do this as scum to protect dwlee my lim bait partner who is doing absolutely nothing is just so ridiculous that I can't believe GL is saying it with a straight face. I would have bussed the ever living fuck out of them without batting an eye.

the idea that you do this as town to protect a slot that is doing absolutely nothing is also extremely ridiculous.

I try to lim scum and not lim town. I think limming lurkers is an extremely lazy and ineffective way to do that. If somehow you're town this game we're going to have to be very careful if we play together in the future because it seems like the way we approach the game is fundamentally quite different.

As for lurkers flipping scum more often than town that has not been my experience because town lurkers tend to get pushed more than scum lurkers because scum has high incentive to push lurkers for easy lims. Which is sure what it seems like you're doing here to me.