Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Toto]

Okay so if Toto is truthtelling then

Ydrasse would receive a succeeded and checked [playername] on mafia.
And on town Ydrasse would receive a fail.

So either Ydrasse and Skitter share an alignment or scum no killed and FB blocked Ydrasse.

I'm not parsing this. I'm of course telling the truth about all mafias being ninjas, but what does my truthtelling have to do with this?


Why do they need to share alignment necessarily?

[innocentvillager]

IC is lying to us

[Toto]

It's just a weird statement to make.

[Toto]

Can you just ask the mod to clarify the thing in thread?

[innocentvillager]

Datisi can you clarify the thing in thread?

[Toto]

Very helpful thx

[Toto]

@Datisi I have question(s) about game mechanics of this game:

1) if a hypothetical disloyal town checker in this game checks a mafia ninja what result should they observe, assuming no other night actions are performed?
2) if a hypothetical disloyal town checker in this game checks a mafia ninja what result should they observe if their target was jailkept, assuming no other night actions were performed?

Thx

[MathBlade]

Okay so if Toto is truthtelling then

Ydrasse would receive a succeeded and checked [playername] on mafia.
And on town Ydrasse would receive a fail.

So either Ydrasse and Skitter share an alignment or scum no killed and FB blocked Ydrasse.

I'm not parsing this. I'm of course telling the truth about all mafias being ninjas, but what does my truthtelling have to do with this?


Why do they need to share alignment necessarily?

Assume Ydrasse town. Then it can be reasonably inferred that Ydrasse isn’t lying about the check and it’s result. The only way Ydrasse gets that result is Skitter town.

Assume Ydrasse scum. Ydrasse claimed one shot. Therefore in every possible world, we elim Ydrasse before Skitter. If Ydrasse scum Skitter town the fake claim was of no benefit as we probably elim Skitter. The fake claim only serves a benefit if we don’t elim either one which makes them the same alignment.

[MathBlade]

Can you just ask the mod to clarify the thing in thread?

I tend to not ask questions in thread to mods as generally they prefer them in PM.

If he answers in thread I have no problem copying my question and paraphrasing it.

[Datisi]

@Datisi I have question(s) about game mechanics of this game:

1) if a hypothetical disloyal town checker in this game checks a mafia ninja what result should they observe, assuming no other night actions are performed?
2) if a hypothetical disloyal town checker in this game checks a mafia ninja what result should they observe if their target was jailkept, assuming no other night actions were performed?

Thx

1) "your action succeeded, and you checked [playername]."
2) "your action succeeded, and you checked [playername]."

[MathBlade]

My questions were that and town. If you still want the paraphrase let me know.

[Toto]

Ok, so if Ydra is town then:

1.1) Skitter is town.
1.2) Ydra got roleblocked
1.3) Skitter is scum ascetic

If scum!ydra

2.1) Ydra trying to save scum buddy skitter who got jk
2.2) Ydra trying to get town cred by innoing town!skitter.

If I remember the sequence of events was:

1) Ydra crumbed PR
2) Ydra got pressured to claim multiple times
3) On D3 everyone was alive
4) Crucially - Ydra crumbed "I have an inno", followed by "Skitter inno, kinda",

before

FB claimed jailkeeping Skitter.

I think 4 makes 2.2 less likely. But there is a wacky scenario where Ydra+FB are scumbuddies and planned all this. I have a feeling pooky needed to go on vacation and asked his team to bus him.

[MathBlade]

Ok, so if Ydra is town then:

1.1) Skitter is town.
1.2) Ydra got roleblocked
1.3) Skitter is scum ascetic

If scum!ydra

2.1) Ydra trying to save scum buddy skitter who got jk
2.2) Ydra trying to get town cred by innoing town!skitter.

If I remember the sequence of events was:

1) Ydra crumbed PR
2) Ydra got pressured to claim multiple times
3) On D3 everyone was alive
4) Crucially - Ydra crumbed "I have an inno", followed by "Skitter inno, kinda",

before

FB claimed jailkeeping Skitter.

I think 4 makes 2.2 less likely. But there is a wacky scenario where Ydra+FB are scumbuddies and planned all this. I have a feeling pooky needed to go on vacation and asked his team to bus him.

4 is misleading

4 was only AFTER the no kill announcement. So scum would know jailkept/no kill/hit FB before FB’s claim.

[Val89]

I think Ydrasse was over-blowing it somewhat to call herself 'self-resolving', particularly if one shot, but I do also think she is just town here.

Given the claims on the table, unless someone has some insight I'm missing, I see no reason it was so important for us to know of the existence of mafia ninjas as to need an informed IC if her claim isn't legit - nothing else interacts, as far as I can see.

I don't think I am so sure it's a legit inno on Skitter, however. I don't have much, if any, experience with normal balance considerations, but for the scum team to be only ninjas seems too town-sided to be legit even for my inexperienced sensibilities. Clearly they have some power, and ascetic, and therefore functioning as a false inno seems like a legit but 'complex' way to bring things back in balance.

[MathBlade]

I think Ydrasse was over-blowing it somewhat to call herself 'self-resolving', particularly if one shot, but I do also think she is just town here.

Given the claims on the table, unless someone has some insight I'm missing, I see no reason it was so important for us to know of the existence of mafia ninjas as to need an informed IC if her claim isn't legit - nothing else interacts, as far as I can see.

I don't think I am so sure it's a legit inno on Skitter, however. I don't have much, if any, experience with normal balance considerations, but for the scum team to be only ninjas seems too town-sided to be legit even for my inexperienced sensibilities. Clearly they have some power, and ascetic, and therefore functioning as a false inno seems like a legit but 'complex' way to bring things back in balance.

That’s kinda why I scumread Fire. His play is Townie but I think they sacrificed the kill to elim Skitter in a scum FB world. I just can’t find his partner in that world. I suppose you + FB is possible.

I just think the inno is incredibly likely. We can always just have me doc Kitty and Kitty check if Skitter is ascetic and that world should be clear I think.

[Val89]

Why is Val aligned with me?

This looks like a townie question to me. MathBlade had been pretty open prior to asking about preferring my lim first, so I think scum!freedom just shuts up, let that happen and take in the towncred when I flip green. Pushing for justification looks anti-scum.

[MathBlade]

I kinda want to hear ydrasse’s info. It could be scum didn’t think I had a shot and shot at FB?

Or FB is just lying and is scum in order to clear himself.

Yeah my eval of skitter depends on that info.

You need to claim

I'm an ascetic watcher. All mafias are ninjas so I tried to confirm TI or TP roles, to no avail.

N1 - pooky, nobody visited
N2 - Val89, nobody visited
N3 - Toto, nobody visited

I am useless.

The only thing that gives me doubt is Kitty didn’t claim ascetic start of the game. Which I guess me healing Kitty won’t work but I still think Kitty checking Skitter is best possible result.

[Ydrasse]

if kitty's an ascetic watcher than i think it raises the chance slightly of ascetic mafia? it feels like it mirrors if not having an active way to stop everyone from doing things? i not very good at setup spec so unsure if that tracks

[Val89]

Someone double check my understanding of how "macho" works, but that means that a Jailkeep would not act as a protective if they locked up Toto, correct?

[MathBlade]

if kitty's an ascetic watcher than i think it raises the chance slightly of ascetic mafia? it feels like it mirrors if not having an active way to stop everyone from doing things? i not very good at setup spec so unsure if that tracks

This is one of those things that it’s hard to know without FB flipped.

If an ascetic scum exists then the no kills are either on who I doccd/FB jailkept or intentional no kill(s). There would be no reason not to send the ascetic mafia each kill.

[MathBlade]

Someone double check my understanding of how "macho" works, but that means that a Jailkeep would not act as a protective if they locked up Toto, correct?

Correct all protectives fail.

[Val89]

Well, at least that means there is a valid reason to make FB informed if town as well, in a "don't bother wasting your ability on the IC" way.

[MathBlade]

Well, at least that means there is a valid reason to make FB informed if town as well, in a "don't bother wasting your ability on the IC" way.

What makes you say FB is informed?

[Ydrasse]

i think he said he was informed

[Val89]

I just can’t find his partner in that world. I suppose you + FB is possible.

I think I am going to have to ask you to justify your scumread on me at this point.

I could sort of see why I might be wrongly suspected today in the sense that I was townreading, and thus avoiding the wagon on the only flipped scum, and I was involved in both town mislims, but I don't understand why you think I'm the only possible partner for a scum!fb.