i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Frogsterking]

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

And is this a take that you actually have or are you just shading my slot because I put you in my solve? You were in that game I linked to and you recognized my scum play there immediately. What exactly do you think I am not being truthful about considering you have first hand experience?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i do NOT like the look of cat scratch fever. post 85 reminds me of me when i'm playing scum, false bravado to try and look towny.

Can you bold the words in 85 that were false bravado?

[Ythan]

Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them.

Show me where you drew this conclusion.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

And is this a take that you actually have or are you just shading my slot because I put you in my solve? You were in that game I linked to and you recognized my scum play there immediately. What exactly do you think I am not being truthful about considering you have first hand experience?

Because you can just. Lie? Like, it's really as simple as that. This isn't shade or a scumread just "hm, something to think about..." because anyone can just literally lie and do the opposite. If you're acknowledging that this one caught on to your scum play within the one day it was alive that game, then it's not impossible for you to try and adjust your play in this game as you're obviously self-aware of your own scum behaviors.

[Gamma Emerald]

Both of you sucked at convincing me

That's a good sign for your alignment because whenever I catch scum D1 there is always at least one townie who goes "PRETTY MEH CASE IF YOU ASK ME"

PEdit

I think Quiet Owl might be town

Also I haven't posted my case on Gamma yet, so I still have a chance.

Yes, we’re all aware of your grandstanding.

[Quiet Owl]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

[Ythan]

Friend you are blinded by your love of frogs.

[Gamma Emerald]

frogster y r those votes scummy.

The McMennon vote is basically a naked vote and the Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them. I think voting a player who suspects you and providing some made up reasoning is pretty common level 0 scum play.

I simply must ask: what makes you think I’d be resorting to level zero plays?

[Ythan]

It's clownish bombast.

[Gamma Emerald]

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

Interested in this little out(?). Want to say it feels towny to go "hey investigatives don't waste an action" but that's easily something scum could do too as a bluff, especially when this entire setup is one giant question mark in terms of mechanics. This one will be keeping an eye on you.

Which one do you think it is?

It's fairly meta for town to claim miller immediately, and I think there's a high probability of negative town utility in a big setup like this. I'm erring on the side of trusting at this stage

Hard to say for certain, especially when there's almost certainly neg util like you said. It's more something to keep in mind rn than anything.

idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.

Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

I think I like this post from Erinys.

[Ythan]

Sorry I do enjoy clowns.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

Watch how you use that paraphrasing, you might take someone's eye out! But in all actual seriousness it still really isn't a giant gotcha scumread or whatever. Just a point this one wanted to make.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Perhaps the last line gives an impression otherwise but fwiw any read this one would make based off of that point is extremely small in scale.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

Oversimplification. Erinys is more so saying the means of presentation are not enticing.
I back Erinys’ comment here since I have experienced other players doing the sort of thing it accused Froggy off doing.

[Frogsterking]

Because you can just. Lie?

...you were in that game and you easily saw through my fake scum solving, which is primarily what MT was asking. Also, I literally did the things that I claimed (tinfoil, thread bloat, lurk:)

Spoiler:

ii played a game with him, read another game with him. if i understood his mind i would share it better with you. If i gave you a generic profile i would say expect him to go back and forth very fast and be very invested into reads one moment and then move just as quickly to something else, and that his reasoning and logic are very hard to tract often.

I would say maybe best way to find him to be town because i haven't seen his scum game is probably his lack of care of how he is perceived and this early game interactions def gives me feeling he is caring how he looks. idk too early to tell. Early gut scum feels.

This is a bald-faced freaking lie. Fire knows exactly what my scum game looks like: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=88946

VOTE: Firebringer

Which game was that. I don't think ive played scum in like half a year and def don't remember u being my teammate

what do you know we did play scum together.
its all coming back to me. your scum game really was bad if memory serves me right in that

Also that game was february this year. I don't know if i would call it recent although i think that was literally my last scum game so i should have remembered it enough to remember you were my teammate. You got elimmed pretty early in that game though and I didn't even read your posts that much now that you reminded me of it. Would need to go back and read the game because my impression was it was pretty bad.

I don't see how that game anyway takes u out of ur scum game here because i would hope u improved since then.

wait frogster, quick sanity check for me.
do u seriously believe this about me lying to grib about our past in order to....hide our history or something and this is scum motivated.

Cause honestly i thought this was another thing to just push more pointless conversation forward as you desperately seem like you want to just have people engage.

VOTE: Thestatusquo

It’s frustrating to feel like I have the only concrete reason to be voting anyone, whereas the votes on me are

- Frog, because of some psychological bullshit
- Enchant, who is bad
- Aisa, because lol mechanics

Ok, I’ll say it. Frog is strategically lurking. I’ve never played with him before but his personality type doesn’t really mesh with “give up” as a villager.

Spoiler: Frog meta

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Aside from the questions these are all the usual beats of a townie trying really hard to sort my slot. I've been described as too-scummy-to-be-scum sounding a lot. Like, a lot.

For your questions, I have very good reads early and hit scum D1 a lot. I mostly ask questions, set up a PoE and analyze isos. So my early play is very competent. Actually, I think my early game is very good.

The problem is that other than that I tend to play pretty bad.

I'd describe my mid game (or even immediately after setting up a PoE) play as: I freak out and go on tilt and throw the game.

I think my endgame play is messy too because I can figure out who did it by then but my tilt/paranoia/tinfoil are bad for closing out games.

My adaptation recently has been to try and play to my strengths and call multiple scum D1 and push one of them through so I get killed N1 and aren't around to throw the game later.

As for why I think I'm constantly scum read by tone, I have a theory that people who are introverted (low happiness, low assertiveness), neurotic (in my case anxious, angry, vulnerable) and very disagreeable (competitive, suspicious of others) are likely to be scum read by tone when Town. I mostly believe this because I realized that other players who have a similar temperament are frequently getting pushed as scum by strangers in their games as well.

Now with that said, what about you, Grib? What is your playstyle like in the early, mid and late game, and do you often get scum read for your tone as Town?

There is a very obvious lack of tilt here, or passion, or urgency. If Frog is town here.

Oops.

I was gonna say “if Frog is town here, I’m slapping my next vote on NM and calling it a day” but that seemed too bitchy so I backspaced. Didn’t backspace far enough.

Anyway, he knows there’s no world where we kill anyone -he- wants us to kill this phase. So he’s eliminating any further incriminating interactions.

In my opinion.

Like you are claiming that my response to MT is scummy because of abstract reasoning, but the claims that I made to her about my scum play are easily verifiable and consistent with how I actually approach the game as scum.

You were literally in the dead PT typing in all caps how I was obv scum and town should kill me. Here are the links of you stating this:

viewtopic.php?p=13539112#p13539112

viewtopic.php?p=13548417#p13548417

viewtopic.php?p=13550164#p13550164

MT asked me if I'm good at faking solving as scum and explained that I wasn't, and I explained what I think I am good at, and so I'm curious which of my statements you actually think I was lying about considering my answer is congruent with your own experiences playing with scum!frog?

[Frogsterking]

But in all actual seriousness it still really isn't a giant gotcha scumread or whatever. Just a point this one wanted to make.

Why did you choose to make that point though instead of addressing Tweet's question or my response directly? You're one of few players in this game who has actually played a recent game with scum!frog and you avoided making any meaningful contribution at all.

[Quiet Owl]

Friend you are blinded by your love of frogs.

oh no
my greatest weakness

i will conduct a more proper evaluation, i think.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Because you can just. Lie?

...you were in that game and you easily saw through my fake scum solving, which is primarily what MT was asking. Also, I literally did the things that I claimed (tinfoil, thread bloat, lurk:)

Spoiler:

ii played a game with him, read another game with him. if i understood his mind i would share it better with you. If i gave you a generic profile i would say expect him to go back and forth very fast and be very invested into reads one moment and then move just as quickly to something else, and that his reasoning and logic are very hard to tract often.

I would say maybe best way to find him to be town because i haven't seen his scum game is probably his lack of care of how he is perceived and this early game interactions def gives me feeling he is caring how he looks. idk too early to tell. Early gut scum feels.

This is a bald-faced freaking lie. Fire knows exactly what my scum game looks like: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=88946

VOTE: Firebringer

Which game was that. I don't think ive played scum in like half a year and def don't remember u being my teammate

what do you know we did play scum together.
its all coming back to me. your scum game really was bad if memory serves me right in that

Also that game was february this year. I don't know if i would call it recent although i think that was literally my last scum game so i should have remembered it enough to remember you were my teammate. You got elimmed pretty early in that game though and I didn't even read your posts that much now that you reminded me of it. Would need to go back and read the game because my impression was it was pretty bad.

I don't see how that game anyway takes u out of ur scum game here because i would hope u improved since then.

wait frogster, quick sanity check for me.
do u seriously believe this about me lying to grib about our past in order to....hide our history or something and this is scum motivated.

Cause honestly i thought this was another thing to just push more pointless conversation forward as you desperately seem like you want to just have people engage.

VOTE: Thestatusquo

It’s frustrating to feel like I have the only concrete reason to be voting anyone, whereas the votes on me are

- Frog, because of some psychological bullshit
- Enchant, who is bad
- Aisa, because lol mechanics

Ok, I’ll say it. Frog is strategically lurking. I’ve never played with him before but his personality type doesn’t really mesh with “give up” as a villager.

Spoiler: Frog meta

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Aside from the questions these are all the usual beats of a townie trying really hard to sort my slot. I've been described as too-scummy-to-be-scum sounding a lot. Like, a lot.

For your questions, I have very good reads early and hit scum D1 a lot. I mostly ask questions, set up a PoE and analyze isos. So my early play is very competent. Actually, I think my early game is very good. :cop:

The problem is that other than that I tend to play pretty bad.

I'd describe my mid game (or even immediately after setting up a PoE) play as: I freak out and go on tilt and throw the game.

I think my endgame play is messy too because I can figure out who did it by then but my tilt/paranoia/tinfoil are bad for closing out games.

My adaptation recently has been to try and play to my strengths and call multiple scum D1 and push one of them through so I get killed N1 and aren't around to throw the game later.

As for why I think I'm constantly scum read by tone, I have a theory that people who are introverted (low happiness, low assertiveness), neurotic (in my case anxious, angry, vulnerable) and very disagreeable (competitive, suspicious of others) are likely to be scum read by tone when Town. I mostly believe this because I realized that other players who have a similar temperament are frequently getting pushed as scum by strangers in their games as well.

Now with that said, what about you, Grib? What is your playstyle like in the early, mid and late game, and do you often get scum read for your tone as Town?

There is a very obvious lack of tilt here, or passion, or urgency. If Frog is town here.

Oops.

I was gonna say “if Frog is town here, I’m slapping my next vote on NM and calling it a day” but that seemed too bitchy so I backspaced. Didn’t backspace far enough.

Anyway, he knows there’s no world where we kill anyone -he- wants us to kill this phase. So he’s eliminating any further incriminating interactions.

In my opinion.

Like you are claiming that my response to MT is scummy because of abstract reasoning, but the claims that I made to her about my scum play are easily verifiable and consistent with how I actually approach the game as scum.

You were literally in the dead PT typing in all caps how I was obv scum and town should kill me. Here are the links of you stating this:

viewtopic.php?p=13539112#p13539112

viewtopic.php?p=13548417#p13548417

viewtopic.php?p=13550164#p13550164

MT asked me if I'm good at faking solving as scum and explained that I wasn't, and I explained what I think I am good at, and so I'm curious which of my statements you actually think I was lying about considering my answer is congruent with your own experiences playing with scum!frog?

This all isn't the potential lie. Saying you're town because you aren't doing any of this is. Again it really is not impossible for you to adjust your play in light of my presence considering you're ofc aware this one sniffed you out during the game, even if you say otherwise. At no point did this one say decisively or confidently you WERE lying, or adjusting your play, or are scum, it just pointed out something it thought was a possibility to keep in mind. Your play has been... interesting so far, but this one honestly isn't super sure what to think of you in terms of alignment.

[HighPrincessErinys]

But in all actual seriousness it still really isn't a giant gotcha scumread or whatever. Just a point this one wanted to make.

Why did you choose to make that point though instead of addressing Tweet's question or my response directly? You're one of few players in this game who has actually played a recent game with scum!frog and you avoided making any meaningful contribution at all.

Don't know what you're actually referring to here, because this one answered the one question Tweet asked it, and obviously responded to you too.

[Frogsterking]

Saying you're town because you aren't doing any of this is.

I didn't say that in my answer to Tweet though? I just like answered their question truthfully? Why are you pretending like you can't understand this?

[Frogsterking]

because this one answered the one question Tweet asked it, and obviously responded to you too.

You didn't answer their question in any meaningful way which provided new information.

Here look:

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

Why are you being vague like you have no idea how I play? You're just framing my answer to Tweet in the worst possible light and pretending like it's moving the game forward.

[Frogsterking]

Your play has been... interesting so far, but this one honestly isn't super sure what to think of you in terms of alignment.

I mean this is just easy to work with because now not only are you shading me, you're also being wishy washy and refusing to commit to a read on my slot.

[Frogsterking]

Yrhan and Gamma votes are poorly explained reactions to my FoS on them.

Show me where you drew this conclusion.

viewtopic.php?p=13587973&user_select%5B ... #p13587973

[Ythan]

Yeah enjoy rope lol.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Saying you're town because you aren't doing any of this is.

I didn't say that in my answer to Tweet though? I just like answered their question truthfully? Why are you pretending like you can't understand this?

because this one answered the one question Tweet asked it, and obviously responded to you too.

You didn't answer their question in any meaningful way which provided new information.

Here look:

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

Why are you being vague like you have no idea how I play? You're just framing my answer to Tweet in the worst possible light and pretending like it's moving the game forward.

This one thinks we've both kind of lost the plot here. So again, slowly this time: This one never got asked a question about you by Tweet, only about Menno's claim of causing investigative shenanigans. This one said in the same post, independent of answering that question; "Hey, Froggy

could

be trying to set us up by saying he plays like X as scum and thus is town because he's now playing like Y.". Not a definitive finger, just something that is, in this one's opinion, with full knowledge of how you played in that game, still within the realm of possibility. That is the potential lie in question, not that you're outright lying about an entire scum game that you linked and this one was in. You never directly said you're town to Tweet but you previously, also in this one's original post pointing this out, said this:

idk about Frogster, backing out on tris so fast might be scum theatre but I can't say I scumread him otherwise.

Oh come off it, assuming tris is town, then as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them.

It's not hard to pick up the implication here in combination with you saying to Tweet that bloating the thread is your game plan as scum, with evidence.

Your play has been... interesting so far, but this one honestly isn't super sure what to think of you in terms of alignment.

I mean this is just easy to work with because now not only are you shading me, you're also being wishy washy and refusing to commit to a read on my slot.

This one doesn't get why you seem to be quick to assume you're being shaded. Noticed this a bit in the other game too. This isn't wishy-washy reading either, this never

was

a proper read to commit or not commit to in the first place. Go ahead and call that in itself wishy-washy if you want but the point was always making a note of something that is purely theoretical at the moment, but possible in the future. NOT to be some silver bullet or to abstractly 'move the game forward'. If this one's going to make a read on you, it's going to be for something actually tangible.

These last few posts fried my brain so hopefully this clears up the exact point this one is trying to make here.