Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

In reading this, it is very important to make a distinction between MMR's

claim

and MMR's

behaviour

surrounding the claim. The literal claim MMR made in the thread was not completely truthful. The behaviour MMR showed is what is important to analyse.

So, first of all: the idea that MMR 100% made everything up is ridiculous. The evidence very much points to MMR having *some* sort of result on PPF. MMR's actual role gives sufficient information to effectively receive the information that a Loyal Neopolitan would receive. They claimed a result on PPF for a reason. And that reason was *not* to outright claim a guilty on PPF; MMR does not act like what they have is a definitive guilty on PPF at any point, they don't push for PPF's elimination, and they only vote PPF when they can no longer argue against the idea that if they should know that PPF is scum if everything they've said is true. So MMR claimed a result based on *some* information that they had about PPF, and the motive wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated because they weren't actually trying to do that. (I am willing to discuss this part further with anyone not named PPF; it seems obvious to me that MMR did in fact learn *something* about PPF's role N1, and so if anyone disagrees or isn't sure about that, I'd be interested in discussing it further.)

The question then becomes: can we figure out WHAT result MMR got on PPF? To be clear, there are two results MMR could have *actually* received: the Beloved Princess role that PPF has claimed (which would mean PPF is town), or Vanilla (which would mean PPF is Solar).

What we're looking for is the DIFFERENCE between how MMR would be acting if they got these two results. Specifically, if MMR got Beloved Princess, MMR knows PPF is town. But if MMR got Vanilla, they don't know whether PPF is a VT or any brand of Solar scum. So,

what is MMR trying to do in regards to PPF?

I think their behaviour suggests that MMR is trying to sort PPF.

The most compelling evidence to me for this is this post by MMR:

? Can you explain your post to us more?

Assuming that you're talking to us, we're a Loyal Rolestopper.
-Rubella

Why would you protect us over claimed prs?

Mumps and Measles wanted to see your reaction.
We're actually Loyal Neapolitan.
I guess that your reaction means that you're Town.
-Rubella

PPF says, 'Why would you protect us over claimed prs?'
Rubella sees this and incorrectly thinks PPF is implying they do not have a PR. That would mean PPF is Vanilla, and therefore could be town. And that explains why Rubella concludes that PPF is likely Town from this exchange.

It makes quite a lot of sense when you consider that MMR has a Vanilla result on PPF and is trying to figure out whether they're a VT or scum. Doing the reaction test in the first place makes a lot less sense if you assume MMR already knows PPF is town.

I also think, generally, that if MMR has a Beloved Princess result on PPF, there is very little incentive to claim in the thread in the first place. (As I've already established, their goal wasn't simply to get PPF eliminated, they weren't pushing for that and there were plenty of more effective ways to establish a guilty claim on PPF if that was the goal.) Whereas if MMR got a Vanilla result, there is a clear incentive to sort out whether PPF is Town or Solar.

MMR having a Vanilla result explains the claim happening in the first place, and it explains the weird reaction test thing that otherwise has no purpose. I find it very likely that MMR had a Vanilla result. And that makes PPF scum.

Pagetop

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

[Past Present Future]

Dangle’s definitely flipping scum here, I bet the game on it.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle has still made no comment on 8222 yet. So why does town!Dangle not care that Prof found out that Lunar has a factional kill?

And why are they not looking at the fact that kills only happened at noon despite that?

Dangle has a very high opinion of Prof’s mech knowledge but yet cannnot explain why he voted them and not me.

[Past Present Future]

Dangle’s definitely flipping scum here, I bet the game on it.

If they were town, they would not be ignoring 8624. There’s 0 reason to do that if they’re town.

[Enchant]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

@ Past Present Future:

I'm not responding to your 20+ posts about professotic because they're ridiculous and professotic getting MMR's role tells no one anything about anyone's alignment. If there's a single person in this thread other than you who wants me to respond to any points you've made, then they can ask me themselves and I'm happy to respond.

I will not be responding to any more posts you make. You are now aware of this. Continuing to try to engage with me is only going to make the thread harder for everyone else to read. Goodbye.

[Past Present Future]

I made the obvious case that Fire cannot be lunar with both STD and then MMR jumping on them, they kept refusing to engage with it and instead tried to get me to shut up about it by suggesting I was somehow annoying them with this.

Dangle seems desperate to push anyone who can’t possibly be lunar: First Fire, then me, so why? Why aren’t they interested in finding out who’s lunar?

[Past Present Future]

@ Past Present Future:

I'm not responding to your 20+ posts about professotic because they're ridiculous and professotic getting MMR's role tells no one anything about anyone's alignment. If there's a single person in this thread other than you who wants me to respond to any points you've made, then they can ask me themselves and I'm happy to respond.

I will not be responding to any more posts you make. You are now aware of this. Continuing to try to engage with me is only going to make the thread harder for everyone else to read. Goodbye.

No you don’t, we both know I made some extremely valid points and you’re not AtEing me in shutting up about it.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.

Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.

[Past Present Future]

I believe prof being Lunar and being

literally not in the game

during the MMR result and therefore unable to help RH9 with his claim synergises rather well in this situation

In fact this should apply whether you think the result is real or not

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help

.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

I was right, Prof did find out through acquiring MMR role that it was bs and even more importantly:


LUNAR Has A FACTIONAL KILLING ABILITY, when based on what we’ve seen so far can only really mke sense with delayed kills.[/b]


w

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

There is absolutely no logical reason for Prof not to be voting us if MMR’s claim was real, NONE!

What doesn’t make any sense is you ignoring this.

Only way you’re going to get me to shut up @Dangle is if you actually stop ignoring this. Until then you’re my #1 guess for an MMR buddy and you trying to ram through a miselim on me despite what Prof posted, has lit a ginormous fire under me, so don’t you dare put that onto me, just don’t.

[Past Present Future]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.

Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.

Yes town fighting an obvious shitpush is so troubling for you. *plays the world’s tiniest violin*.

[Past Present Future]

You seriously just expect me to let you drive what I’ve proven by Prof’s post to be an obvious miselim driving you nuts?

Are you seriously that ludicrouslly tunneled that you honestly don’t care that my two posts proved the claim to be bs?

Or is it more that you fear my role and want me dead today despite caring if it hurts town or not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Who’s lunar @Dangle and don’t insult my intelligence by saying it’s fire when I already demonstrated who totally ludicrous that is.

Sorry for being so aggro and nothing personal Dangle but you’re either tunnelled beyond reason and am too tilted to care or I’m actually right and it is you.

Because Prof clearly stated that Lunar has a factional nk but there’s only been nks during noon, so why aren’t you at all interested in discussing this?

Do you not consider this important?

[Past Present Future]

Who’s lunar @Dangle and don’t insult my intelligence by saying it’s fire when I already demonstrated who totally ludicrous that is.

Sorry for being so aggro and nothing personal Dangle but you’re either tunnelled beyond reason and am too tilted to care or I’m actually right and it is you.

Because Prof clearly stated that Lunar has a factional nk but there’s only been nks during noon, so why aren’t you at all interested in discussing this?

Do you not consider this important?

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

This is so incredibly important, that I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone town would be ignoring this.

[Past Present Future]

Oh yeah I totally forgot about this information I received like after MMR’s death, maybe it can help.

Apparently me and TicTac received the ability MMR had but we can’t use that ability cause we are Town and as such don’t have a factional kill.

This is so incredibly important, that I can’t for the life of me understand how anyone town would be ignoring this.

Can anyone please comment on this? I honestly don’t know how I missed it but it could possibly explain why no kills during nights despite according to Prof, proof positive Lunar has a factional killing ability.

[Past Present Future]

I don't get why we push PPF is we need to hunt lunars.

Why do we need to hit Lunar today?

Why we don't

Noon is up next, which means Solar have their kill. In the scenario where Lunar are Arsonists and are also able to prime on Noon, PPF is primed (because due to how MMR's role works, Lunar would have targeted PPF with a factional action, AKA dousing). I value removing the Solar kill higher considering that.

Not gonna lie, I ALSO rather highly value removing PPF from the game at this point because they are driving me up the fucking wall. But even removing that bias from consideration I think there's more value to be gained from eliminating them now.

I wouldn’t be “driving you up a fucking wall” if you’re both town and willing to listen to reason because I can’t understand why you won’t if I’m worng.

At any rate It’s a 100% not my intention to upset anyone. I just know that I’m not Solar and that Prof’s info could potentially break the game wide open it really really upsets me how you continue to dismiss every single valid point I make. If I’m wrong on you. then why are you doing that? I just don’t get it.

[T-Bone]

I apologize for my outburst. I understand that people need to look at every player who’s left but it’s just really pisses me off that lying scum’s bs botched fake claim continues to be brought up when I strongly suspect that not everyone pushing it is town here.

If anyone has actual issues with my play, I’ll be more than happy to respond to and allay any concerns about me being scum here. I’m not.

And I really do suspect Dangle because Prof who got MMR role voted for them and they’re the ones who keep pushing MMR lies as valid and I just really want to scream.

Okay but you think I'm town so give people space to answer my question, please.

[T-Bone]

Bella wanted to refresh her own grasp of the MMR claim situation, so we took some time to look again properly at it.

VOTE: Past Present Future

We both feel rather confident upon discussing it together that

what MMR had was a 'vanilla' result on PPF from their passive ability

, which would mean that

PPF is lying about their role

.

Case for this coming up. I'd appreciate some eyes on this.

But "They saw PPF as Beloved Princess" is kinda possible case too?

Did PPF claim BEFORE MMR? Wait i really don't remember.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that.

[T-Bone]

I apologize for my outburst. I understand that people need to look at every player who’s left but it’s just really pisses me off that lying scum’s bs botched fake claim continues to be brought up when I strongly suspect that not everyone pushing it is town here.

If anyone has actual issues with my play, I’ll be more than happy to respond to and allay any concerns about me being scum here. I’m not.

And I really do suspect Dangle because Prof who got MMR role voted for them and they’re the ones who keep pushing MMR lies as valid and I just really want to scream.

Okay but you think I'm town so give people space to answer my question, please.

Dangle please give everyone else space too.

[Enchant]

Okay question for everyone but PPF.

Did MMR have a real result? Gut reaction yes or no?

It depends what you mean by real result.

But Yes i do.

[Firebringer]

these back and forths between dangle and PPF.
Yes, good stuff.
THis is why i play mafia. For these silly back and forths.

@PPF why are u solely focused on lunar?
U said im possibly solar so i don't get why u are so adamant to fight dangle. Just lim dangle tomorrow imo.

[T-Bone]

FB gut reaction, do you think MMR had a real result?

[Enchant]

Just theory.

Assuming you are PPF-Scum. Someone claims Loyan Neapolitan result on you.

... Do you try to fakeclaim something in response?