Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Klick]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

If your choice is Una, Ari or myself, the correct answer is definitely Ari

The best way I can describe Ari is through comparison with Shirou and giuseppina, as the other frequent posters
All three of them have plenty of things to say
I read Shirou's and pina's posts and think that the angle they're playing the game at would be an odd one to choose to play at as scum; basically they're both doing a lot of things that add no clear value to their perception. I think they post things because they think them and want people to know what they think, regardless of how it makes them look.

I read Aristeia's posts and I don't get that. Like the latest reads she posted felt like she was posting reads because having a stance on the game is a good thing to have. It felt very perception-focused.
I hadn't considered it before literally typing this but I think that's the crux of my issue with Aristeia. I get the sense that Ari is acutely aware of and concerned with how she is going to be perceived when she posts things. I think that's something that town sometimes does but scum necessarily always does. And the fact that I'm consistently feeling that way with Ari posts is what has her leaning scum for me.

[Klick]

VOTE: Aristeia
This is a much better vote than Una

[Klick]

Who do you want to vote currently?

Missed this
I'm gonna read the last page of posts and then probably make a list of people I'd be fine with voting today

[giuseppina]

was worried aristeia was still at e-2 but checked votecount and it seems not,

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

If your choice is Una, Ari or myself, the correct answer is definitely Ari

The best way I can describe Ari is through comparison with Shirou and giuseppina, as the other frequent posters
All three of them have plenty of things to say
I read Shirou's and pina's posts and think that the angle they're playing the game at would be an odd one to choose to play at as scum; basically they're both doing a lot of things that add no clear value to their perception. I think they post things because they think them and want people to know what they think, regardless of how it makes them look.

I read Aristeia's posts and I don't get that. Like the latest reads she posted felt like she was posting reads because having a stance on the game is a good thing to have. It felt very perception-focused.
I hadn't considered it before literally typing this but I think that's the crux of my issue with Aristeia. I get the sense that Ari is acutely aware of and concerned with how she is going to be perceived when she posts things. I think that's something that town sometimes does but scum necessarily always does. And the fact that I'm consistently feeling that way with Ari posts is what has her leaning scum for me.

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

[Klick]

Would actively choose to vote: Aristeia, Toto
Would be fine to wagon: Lucian, Aubrey, TGP
Null but I want to see more from them: CSF, STD

[giuseppina]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

[Klick]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

[Klick]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

I have to literally force myself to think about stuff like this as little as possible because although I'm aware that this stuff happens both accidentally as town and intentionally as scum, my brain REALLY likes chucking stuff like that into the town bin automatically

[Aristeia]

lucian has three completed town games and they're all significantly townier than his play in this game.

he doesnt feel like hes particularly eager to share takes or engage in solving, i didnt like some of the takes he's had this game because they don't feel organic and it feels like he's more invested in self meta/defense than actually pushing foward to find mafia.

This part annoys me. This is the exact argument I had towards me last game, "the other two games he's played were so townie and he's struggling here, must be scum". Spoiler alert. Was not scum. And I'm not sure why you'd expect me to be eager in sharing takes or engaging in solving, when I'm consistently being shot down and called scum for ??? reasons, and I don't feel like people actually want to interact with me properly.

I am getting doubts on Ari, though... Like, the most recent flurry of solving feels like the most townie thing she's done this game. And the way she's talking about me/Una (more applicable to Una since she's a wagon currently) doesn't feel like she is trying very hard to convince people to vote there, which I feel like scum-her would be more likely to do here.

i am not trying very hard to convince people to vote for my solution because i like both you and una very much and i am acutely aware that i can be pretty wrong here and i would be p upset if i got either of you voted out and i was wrong.



i hope you and her are town and catch bad scum and we can all win together


i am sorry my read annoys you. i wish for nothing more than to be carried up this mountain in your arms.

[giuseppina]

Ok TGP may be scum

Pina as the the official meta player I want your take on this, and also how much do you know about TGP in general?

UNVOTE:

i assume this view of me comes partly from lucian and partly from my having read games i was not playing in, but i think it is more of who i was, or maybe not even that, but rather who i could have been at one point had i continued pursuing, but anyway,

most of how i feel about thegoldenparadox does not come from meta at all

what he has chosen to comment on has been kinda ..! to me

and coming back with a new vote with new reasoning and such here without any like

debrief or anything from the previous post or any of the reactions to it and such

feels not right, like trying to create his posts from scratch doesn't end up feeling like it's a particularly towny process,

i have some firsthand experience with thegoldenparadox - in silent star royalty and a datisi moderated micro normal

he was town in each, i do not really think thegoldenparadox's posts ever felt as constructed as they do here to me,

looking at it now, even though he had similar issues regarding the amount of posts and such in royalty as he does here, his posts given after gaps of time still feel more written instead of built,

but i was part of the wagon that miseliminated him in royalty, which was largely a deadline thing but still

so maybe knowing he was town there and not knowing his alignment here is potentially influencing me

and his playstyle in the micro normal was altogether different so hard to judge even is his reads like, mm,

like in both of those games his reads feel kinda like they are being thrown out there and significantly less like they are being presented to me

[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

If it helps you reading me, i think most of the players that know me can confirm that i tend to goof this kind of thing often. I even slipped as mafia once by claiming my role is VT when the game didn't even have VT roles.

[Shirou]

@Pina that's exactly my issue with TGP as well outside of the weird meta/memory thing, his posts feel much more "constructed" than organic compared to when I played with town!him om Mini Normal 2169 (I was town there as well). Everyone was scum reading him then but I didn't feel his slot was scummy at all, just low post count.

I also played with TGP in "Lynch the Wolves" by Mastina but now that's a

very ancient game

that people truly may not remember (not even I do that much), I don't think it was very memorable overall somehow, even though it was a large with players like RC, NSG and etc. I was also just starting to play mafia so I don't think whatever way I read him there holds much water (and again, it's a much older game).

[giuseppina]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

If it helps you reading me, i think most of the players that know me can confirm that i tend to goof this kind of thing often. I even slipped as mafia once by claiming my role is VT when the game didn't even have VT roles.

but then you are also aware that you goof this kind of thing and then it just becomes even more of a wifom thing

like i have misunderstood setups and voting rules and things of the sort myself multiple times and based various thoughts upon those misunderstandings and made many a mess so i certainly understand that this is something that does happen for towns, and i am certainly not hard scumreading you for it or anything,

it's just that i also know mafias like to fake this sort of thing for some reason so i do not think really think i should be weighting it as a towny thing

like that's why i say i want to put no value into it, rather than trying to determine concretely whether it comes from mafia or town in this particular case, as it seems unlikely i would be able to do so

[Shirou]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

If it helps you reading me, i think most of the players that know me can confirm that i tend to goof this kind of thing often. I even slipped as mafia once by claiming my role is VT when the game didn't even have VT roles.

For what it's worth, me and Norwe played in TM 2021 as team, and my game specifically was

"Black Flag"

.

Black Flag

is

a

nightless

montainous setup, I feel that's partially why he may have confused this setup given it's

"White Flag"

.

[giuseppina]

Shirou vs. TGP is reading more old school vs. new school to me. I low key like TGP, though I admit I’m super biased.

Personally this has been a hard game for me to dig my heels into and feel like I can perform well. I was excited to join, but I’m slowly remembering why I began to dip away. like I was trained by the “older gen” on a different site I guess, and play though more of a analytical lens and mafia theory lens over Meta this Meta that, that one game we played this, omg why are you reading me like that when I was blah in blah. Like that line of reasoning isn’t something I consider or able to participate in. And the new style of not trying to play to you’re alignment but play hard to read is just a site meta I never got and still feel like I’m seeing….all in all I feel like that maybe a similar feeling TGP and possibly BBT was feeling. Not to put thoughts and emotion in your mouths.

For the record I’m leaving BBT as null, he might have just decided he didn’t care to read.

i think, if you do want to go heavily into analytics and mafia theory here, that there are quite a few players that would also happily have those conversations with you, myself included

like i don't really think it's exclusively one or the other, and i do love playing connect the dots,

[Shirou]

Klick or Aubrey could easily be mafia as well, I think

[giuseppina]

aubrey badgering pina to vote is giving me feels

this still i keep thinking about and... there's the aristeia thing and the like 'oh it sure would be scummy if you didn't vote' sort of thing which like, ??? like not voting isn't actually a mafia indicative thing in anyway just like the 'not casting its own opinions' thing isn't mafia indicative that's not really how things work and the way aubrey seems to be taking those things into heavy consideration when compared to the rest of my posts, my approach to the game and such, why i would be doing what i am doing if i were mafia, or anything like that, it feels like

like it feels like aubrey is trying to say, 'look at these negatives! look everyone, giuseppina doesn't state its thoughts as hard conclusions! giuseppina doesn't vote' while townreading me and saying, but we will look at those things later, as if those things somehow carry a significant amount of weight that i don't really see why town would think those were so important towards determining alignment,

but i am me so obvious bias involved in my trying to evaluate

[giuseppina]

Klick or Aubrey could easily be mafia as well, I think

quote the una post that says this game has six mafia

but also, yeah i often end up living in worlds where everyone or nearly everyone is possible mafia

[giuseppina]

i probably need to get better at focusing on Very Most Likely but figuring out how to do so probably isn't a today endeavour

[Aristeia]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: aubrey

Do you mind talking more about this vote?

ari i feel has started doing things that town ari would do and is providing the analysis i felt was lacking when i voted her. granted, she still could be scum, but she's done enough to make me waiver in that read.

aubrey's tone feels off to me. it's hard to describe and it's not something i think we need to kill kill kill right away, i want to see what happens if i put my vote there.

[Save The Dragons]

So tldr I have to many reads close to null. This game is weird.

im usually suspicious when people post things like this but i don't think anything else toto has done has pinged me

[Save The Dragons]

i like the "post seems constructed" argument better for TGP and am willing to go back and look for that