HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[Save The Dragons]

i dun remember everything i've ever said

[Eiralox]

the rest of this game will be all about getting you n1ed and making sure nobody will understand early game enough to vote them out.

There's talk of a black spit.

[Eiralox]

Spot. At times me spit is black so that ain't as strange.

[Eiralox]

gimli is probably scum

Why?

Hey! If I start trusting you, will that be a mistake?

[Aisa]

1.08

Votecount 1.08

Save The Dragons (6):

Killing Joke, Wayward Son, ActionDan, HighPrincessErinys, Eiralox, Gimli.

HighPrincessErinys (4):

Passenger, Save The Dragons, Enchant, Titus.

Killing Joke (3):

Flea The Magician, Radical Rat, BlueBloodedToffee.

Enchant (1):

Elements.

Gimli (1):

Malakittens.

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant.

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to eliminate someone.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-01-20 01:00:00).

Mod Notes

• Elements is V/LA for the weekend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Super surprised Fenrir is the leading wagon. Wagon comp is ugly, too.

Probably gonna have to read the rest of this game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, why you not voting?

Elements/Mala, why you wasting votes?

[Gimli]

Super surprised Fenrir is the leading wagon. Wagon comp is ugly, too.

Probably gonna have to read the rest of this game.

six townies in it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, that seems unlikely.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Elements did some good posting on page 10, wondering how/why they've ended up off the KJ wagon.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ouuuuuh this was a lot. After reading from 117, this one's main thoughts are: Joker had a half-decent case against StD early on, but that's since kinda crumbled. His tone is kinda wacky and his points against Elements, Flea, and StD have all gotten out of whack, but it honestly... doesn't scumread him all that much. It feels like town misplaying rather than scum shitpushing from what it knows firsthand of his meta. Some of Harley's later posts (i.e. 265 immediately under Flea stating that faer not ignoring her at all and 267 saying NO YOU TOTALLY ARE IGNORING ME) feel

bad

though.

Can you talk a bit more about why you're not scum reading KJ?

That being said! StD doesn't look so good either even if Joker's case isn't quite so good anymore. His ISO is very dodgy in general but in particular 231 is just groanworthy. Scumlean here

Talk more about this as well please.

That this one didn't like Elements' ISO very much, and still doesn't. Scumlean on Elements.

And this one as well, please!

A lot of vague reads here.

So to anyone who’s town here sr either of us for purely playstyle reasons, please explain for non-typical playstyle reasons why we’re scum here. Because I have yet to hear even one non-playstyle-based reason for anyone sr either of us for meta.

~Harley

I'm not scum reading you for playstyle reasons. Not quite a PbPA, but some things that stood out to me;

First one is a little reachy, but bear with me. I know Frog likes the psychology behind playing Mafia and something pinged me in one of his posts (he did it twice). In 99, in response to an extremely basic question from RR (he asks if Frog scum reads Flea so heavily, why isn't he voting him) Frog begins his response with 'Good question' and I think that's an appeasement to try and sway RR from continuing any sort of push based on his response. The question was a basic one and I think Frog was buttering RR up for want of a better word.

The initial push on Fenrir was weak and genuinely made 0 sense. I feel like Fenrir has addressed this enough in terms of his play being dumb if he is scum.

The complete dismissal of Flea's questions is scummy218. I actually didn't like Flea's original question in 109 but Frog's avoidance of answering looks bad. It wasn't a particularly difficult question to answer, either.

Few more things from page 11/12, the reversal from Nancy on RR voting her looks manipulative and the whole self-meta defence looks awful, too.

That about sums up my thoughts so far.

[Gimli]

the hydra is town - outside of anyone's scum range, unless they're magical people - and caused enough pressure in the scum early on that they're still trying to figure out how to come back to the game. STD is nearly outed and the wagon on him is organic. I don't think any scum is even bussing him yet. I think you're town though, BBT. I think you're just not reading the game right, but we'll only know when we start flipping them.

[Eiralox]

BluebloodedToffee, can crew Joker not also be using buttering-up language to get a point across?

I'm not sure attempts at appeasement equate to mutiny in the general sense.

That being said, as there are so many vile characters voting Fenrir, where does Wayward Son fit in?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Disagree the wagon is organic.

Wayward sheeped KJ early on and hasn't reevaluated at all from what I've read so far and HPE was angling to join in 283 as well with weak reasons.

Haven't seen Eira's vote yet but as I said earlier, you have come into the game with the absolute safest reads possible and just hopped onto the leading wagon.

That's 3 votes at least that are pretty suspect.

Also, a point I forgot to mention about KJ earlier was that on page 10 they take the easiest possible route to try and discredit Elements posting about them (picking on the Wayward read) as everything else Elements said was accurate and hard to argue against.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I should clarify my position as well, I'm not town reading Fenrir and, due to this, I feel have already overdefended the wagon on them but these things have needed to be said.

[Eiralox]

I think many people voting Save The Dragons feel the same thing, have noticed the same patterns.

I'm not too sure yet. But enough to keep my vote just here.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fenrir, what are your thoughts on the people on your wagon?

[Save The Dragons]

Save The Dragons (6):

Killing Joke

,

Wayward Son

,

ActionDan

,

HighPrincessErinys

,

Eiralox

,

Gimli

.

Green is town

[Save The Dragons]

I might be a little biased

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you expand on those?

[Bellaphant]

I'm scum reading std (and frog a little bit) for tone but for very different reasons.

@bbt I don't feel qualified to sort the two leading wagons day one and I think hpe is Tien. Chucking a vote on enchant or elements isn't great, so I'm not voting rn.

[Bellaphant]

The hpe wagon also sucks and like my town reads are on my town read.

[Killing Joke]

451, 367, 458

tl;dr

Dragons/Elements/Passenger scum, Eiralox/HPE/Bella town

I am sorry for invoking thread death with Flea.

@BBT, @Titus, @Enchant, @Dragons and @Passenger have content to respond to below. My suspicion of

Enchant

is growing.

PSA

As far as I can understand the concepts, the below post is both toxicity-free and a good overall post.

We've decided that our war with Flea was more likely to be a thunderdome and I'd like to apologize for the part I played in invoking thread death. As far as changes I can make I think I can promise to avoid sustained, back-to-back postings tunnel visioned on conflict with another player for the rest of the game.

I'm re-asserting that the associative tell I pointed out (131 and 137 being scum theater) between Dragons and Elements is more likely to be correct than wrong. I've realized my post 149 details an analogy which is abstract. I've stepped back the best I can to determine whether it's unlikely to be understood because there is no logic or because the logic is too difficult to see. I've decided that the logic is simply difficult to see and it's beyond my abilities as a player to communicate it in a way that everyone can understand.

I would accept an all-or-nothing, no-takeback deal that the scum team contains

at least

and

all of

Dragons/Elements/Passenger. I have

comparatively

nothing concrete to say on anyone elses alignment including Flea, except I'm pretty confident that Eiralox, HPE and Bella are Town and Enchant is in the dog house.

titus's lack of presence bothers me a little but not enough to really worry about her

i have no read on bbt at this time

mala seems town i feel like staying out of the butting heads and going hard on someone else seems like it's avoiding the easy scum play of taking a side. it feels more like town apathy/annoyance of the battle going back and forth.

i'm suspicious of dan and am a little shocked at all the town reads on him. his vote on me seems a little lazy. i guess he explains it later, and i don't mind his recent big post so much except for the bit about analysis which i think he's wrong and i'm right and i don't know if that's because he's scum trying to attribute something when it's not there to make me look bad or if he just believes what he says. i dunno. i don't have a solid scumlean on him but i'm just wary.

This pings me for the "talk to me, not about me" scum tell I 100% learned from Bella because she said it in back-to-back games D1 to slots who got townread as scum and proceeded to endgame.

I'm looking at Dragon's iso and I'm not seeing any effort to engage or sort slots like ActionDan, Titus. I find it interesting that BBT--who has become Dragon's flying monkey (which I mean it no shade, no tea)--Dragons "has no read on" despite also being implicated by Bella in 458 as an underperformer.

It feels like Dragons saw the posts I linked at the top here (451, 367 and 458) and thought slots like ActionDan and Titus would be well-recieved as targets for him to push. I see no signs or indicators or feel any intuition that these are reads or players that Dragons has been considering or thinking about.

__

@BBBBBBT

Case on Dragon seems weak.

I'm repeating this just for you, BBT.

[519] pings me for the "talk to me, not about me" scum tell I 100% learned from Bella because she said it in back-to-back games D1 to slots who got townread as scum and proceeded to endgame.

Townreading posts like 519 is a

mistake

I learned the hard way by

losing lots of games.

I am genuinely trying to help you by pointing out this pattern to you. I'm not really a "bruh" person but I think it's fair to say that if I were I would consider you a "bruh" because you were a strategic, selfless team player who set Eiralox and I up for victory in a really difficult scum game which enabled me to become more confident as a player. I think 458 implies Bella enjoys playing with you and/or sees potential in you as a player and I would rather roll with that mindset. IDK what else to say except that I am telling the truth and trying to work with you.

You remember how Eiralox' slot coasted to victory?

Paranoid of Eira for all of time now haha

I wouldn't put too much blame on yourself. For various reasons, Eira seemed pretty widely town read in the game so it's not on you by any means

If y'all had of listened to me we could have elimmed Eira!

Damnnnnn, Frog and Eira coasted!

Good work and GGs everyone!

Guess who noticed something D1 which no one paid attention to?

@eir, come talk to me, not about me?


I think fire could be town and frog could be scum. I low key think aisa might be town but it's a meta read and not a good one. Grib can be town. In annoyed no one engaged me on hpe. I find the back and forth between grid/tsq/fire/frog/a little bbt soeta unreadable' because it looks like a pissing contest and I never get anything out of them.

So, there's some stuff to get your teeth into

P-edit enchant could well be scum. I don't want nm ans enchant to be scum but I've played with both of them recently and won in a scum team with nm, they could both be doing more

Now I've tried to be careful to avoid making an actual meta argument here. I don't want to hear that you reject all this because you "don't care about meta." I'm not making a damn meta argument, I'm pointing out a general scum tell which IME is consistently missed by like every Town. Dragons has just demonstrated it in 519 and is demonstrating it again now in 542. Dragons does not have depth to his reads because he isn't Town and consequently his takes haven't developed in spite of all his "activity."

FMPOV I tried my best here and there is nothing else I can do wrt your reads that can be productive unless you're willing to consider what I have to say.

__

@Passenger

i don't know that you're scum i'm just voting you right now because i think it's the most likely option but if you want to prove me wrong you can try

Unlike the above post from STD which I fail to see any townie thought process whatsoever. lol

Did you (idk if it was Nancy or Frogster though) not do this exact same thing with Wayward?

Passenger, I know you claimed to have read up to some page or whatever in your ISO, but I think that you're lying and you haven't read a single page of this game or even more than two consecutive back-to-back posts.

Feel free to try and prove me wrong in 36 hours when you glance at the thread again. Apparently you've been busy "playing lots of livechat mafia" so you can show us what other scum tricks you've learned there (cough cough 183.)

__

@Titus

@Titus

@Titus

INCOMING INCOMING INCOMING! RULE OF THREE ALERT!

Std: hey guys I'm worried about kj I'm gonna put a vote there see what happens
Kj: STD IS SCUM AND SO IS EVERYONE WHO DEFENDS HIM
HERE IS SOME META THAT IS TANGENTIALLY RELATED BUT WE'RE PRENTENDING IT'S A SCUMCLAIM.
town: *applause* let's wagon std

Do you have counterexamples of you doing the same thing as town?

i don't know that you're scum i'm just voting you right now because i think it's the most likely option but if you want to prove me wrong you can try

Unlike the above post from STD which I fail to see any townie thought process whatsoever. lol

Did you (idk if it was Nancy or Frogster though) not do this exact same thing with Wayward?

VOTE: HPE
not rvs, going off vibes

Just a reminder, HPE asked you about this.

Why did you feel the need to ask this question? I hadn’t made any posts since then. Honestly, all your content in this page feels like filler.

RULE OF 3 ALERT

Passenger

only soft pushes AND only soft pushes:

KJ WAYWARD

DRAGONS

__

@Dragons

I'm not sure how Passenger is going to explain scum reading Dragons and I. They aren't a beginner and that take seems really unintuitive to me.

perhaps the only thing we see eye to eye on

Now you want to try being chummy with me to get me off your tail, scum butt? Or are you desperate to appear not-associated with Passenger and it had nothing to do with my slot?

This is the officially named "reverse 'NSG TELL ''" fyi. Scum!indicative forcing a dumb jokey into a post in a context which is unnatural for a townie to be jokey. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=90273

__

@Dragons@Passenger

Std: hey guys I'm worried about kj I'm gonna put a vote there see what happens
Kj: STD IS SCUM AND SO IS EVERYONE WHO DEFENDS HIM
HERE IS SOME META THAT IS TANGENTIALLY RELATED BUT WE'RE PRENTENDING IT'S A SCUMCLAIM.
town: *applause* let's wagon std

Do you have counterexamples of you doing the same thing as town?

i dun remember everything i've ever said

Executive Director: ARRGH! THESPIANS...WHERE'S THE PASSION? WHERE IS THE EXCITEMENT? WHAT ARE YOUR CHARACTERS TRYING TO ACHIEVE!?! SHOULD I CALL THE UNDERSTUDIES IN AND GIVE THEM A DRESS REHEARSAL?

__

@Enchant

• The Town are called Crew, VTs are called Loyal Sailors, Town PRs are called Officers - whose flavours are derived from traditional roles on ships, and/or piracy in popular culture. At least half of the Crew are Loyal Sailors.

what officer could be miller

Oh cool selfmeta.

I aleays say, if you can say how different you are as mafia and town, then you can manipulate it.

I like Passenger, congrats you are now doublevoter.


... Whew, mafia is hard.

VOTE: HighPrincessErinys

The first...three posts are townie and the last two are gross. I particularly don't understand the hpe wagon at all and it seemed like a distraction to progress. Also, singling out passenger is just strange to me

Jealous?

Tell me why you like passenger and I might be!

I picked them almost randomly for no reason to see how it ends.

You can't use swear words in pirate themed game

That's... F... Friking... Sad

lockscum

Enchant, you blew off my attempts to engage with you in 452 and 462 which I believe is scum!indicative for you. I also believe Town!Enchant is likely to engage with 84, and at the very least, it's a terrible sign that I've put more effort into mech than you have.

I have three things now which are town!indicative for you which you can attempt to follow up on if my suspicions about you are wrong:

Help with Dragon wagon and post more quantity (452)
ISO dive someone (462)
Expand on or suggest an alternative to my theory 12:4 town:scum ratio (84)

I'll interpret continued silence from you as

fear

scum!indicative.

__

[Passenger]

You know something

VOTE: Killing Joke

The level of reach in your posts is honestly disgusting.
We're 2 days in, you're literally throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks and accepting nothing in return. I tried to be nice, but its clear that The Joker is always going to be scum.

Flea is scum here. *cries*


STD scumposted when he made that post with if we PROVE we’re town to him, he’ll TRY o read us but anyone who knows how to read me correctly can tell I’m town here and Flea knows I can never be scum here, so yeaah I tr faer for paranoia on our slot but complete inability to correctly read me, Joker might be right then.

ANYONE SOLELY FOCUSED On JOKER’S POSTS And IGNORING MINE ARE PLAYING VERY BADLY And Are The MOST LIKELY To Be SCUM PUSHING US

.

~Harley

I also scumread Flea for those posts but for likely different and weaker reasons.

[Enchant]

Nancy No offense, but debating with you is something i want to avoid.