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[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

i am explaining to you why i do what i do.

i am not sure what more you expect me to do at this point.


Okay
That's not going to do much to resolve my ability to read you though

[TheGoldenParadox]

here is the case for shirou:
if shirou is town, he is going to get NKed by scum in the next couple of days, because they are too powerful for that to not be true, and the WIFOM isn't worth it, but we do get the benefit of a strong townie for at least a couple days, and for the NK to be Shirou as opposed to the second most powerful townie or whatever.
if shirou is scum, he has enough control over the gamestate to consistently get mislims and survive until elo by default, and shirou being scum tilts the scales a

lot

in favor of scum wins.
shirou is not much over rand to be town than to be scum. i'm uncertain how to orient towards reading him. currently scumleaning based on his push on me being a relatively cheap way to get a mislim (oh my god, guess what, TGP's statements are INCONSISTENT with his statements in October 2020, how SCANDALOUS, obviously he must be LYING).

important point here is that if you're not strongly TRing shirou than this case remains strong.

if you agree with these things then Shirou should be the elim and by no circumstances should he survive to Elo.

[Aristeia]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

Okay
That's not going to do much to resolve my ability to read you though

the only thing i can do for you is to explain to you why i do what i do

you seem to think it means im scum but it baffles me because not only am i not scum i dont even understand why you think it is scum indicative in the first place.

[Aristeia]

i have never ever been accused of being scum for posting reads because someone asked me for reads

its such a bizarre thing to say about someone. it is beyond my comprehension why you think this.

[Aristeia]

its literally the least charitable thing you can say about someone just trying to play the game.

id be ok if you said something like i think ari is scum because her read on ____ doesnt make sense to me because _____

because then at least there would be a reason that makes sense and we can discuss that.

instead you are like saying she is scum because she responded to a post asking for reads by posting reads.

its infuriating.

[Klick]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

Uncharitableness?
I don't really see how my treatment of you has been uncharitable
Can you expand

toto asked me for my reads and you called me scum for giving him reads

like it feels like you are viewing my actions through the lens of she is scum and she is doing this because she is scum without really considering if I would do this if I am town.

even your point about me being scum because i "want to be perceived" as town

like why wouldnt i want to be perceived as town if im town?

the comparison to pina and shirou is also kind of gross because its like ok sure there is a difference in that you can say my posting is more self-pres than either of them

but niether of them are in danger of being elimmed so why wouldnt it be?

you dont really consider my motives as town you just kind of say oh this is scum motivated if shes scum.

I feel like you've taken the things I've actually said about my read on you and made further assumptions based on how you feel about what I'm saying.

I've not called you scum for giving Toto reads
I have explicitly said that the self-focused posting that has pinged me so far *could* conceivably come from town but would certainly be happening if you were scum

Keep in mind that I was asked to expand on my read of you just like you were asked to give your reads
I do think you're more likely to be scum than town but it's not like I'm death-tunneling on the prospect of you being scum

I feel like your reaction to my suspicion of you is out of proportion with how much I actually suspect you, and I'm not sure if that's because I've stated it poorly or because you feel particularly pressured by what I'm saying.

[Aristeia]

i am talking about what you literally said

you can correct me if i am wrong about any of it

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

If your choice is Una, Ari or myself, the correct answer is definitely Ari

The best way I can describe Ari is through comparison with Shirou and giuseppina, as the other frequent posters
All three of them have plenty of things to say
I read Shirou's and pina's posts and think that the angle they're playing the game at would be an odd one to choose to play at as scum; basically they're both doing a lot of things that add no clear value to their perception. I think they post things because they think them and want people to know what they think, regardless of how it makes them look.

I read Aristeia's posts and I don't get that. Like the latest reads she posted felt like she was posting reads because having a stance on the game is a good thing to have. It felt very perception-focused.
I hadn't considered it before literally typing this but I think that's the crux of my issue with Aristeia. I get the sense that Ari is acutely aware of and concerned with how she is going to be perceived when she posts things. I think that's something that town sometimes does but scum necessarily always does. And the fact that I'm consistently feeling that way with Ari posts is what has her leaning scum for me.

[Aristeia]

you literally claimed i posted reads because ____

when i am literally responding to someone else asking me for reads

[Klick]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

[Klick]

Like you have specifically admitted that this is something you are doing
I'm not saying it necessarily means you are scum and I agree that there are reasons that town would act with self-preservation

[Aristeia]

if this isnt useful to you for sorting me i think we should stop talking about it.

i think you are treating me uncharitably

you think you aren't.

lets just agree to disagree.

[Klick]

I think this conversation has given me a better idea of who you are and how you think
I'm fine to drop it for now but I'm glad it happened!

[Aubrey]

I’m not really sure Shirou has as much control over the game like you’re stating TGP.

Early on, the friends group shit posting had control over swamping the game. That’s can be said.

I could even see an argument being hashed where the state of this odd friends group could control the momentum of the game. But they seem to be attacking each other now…Though there has been instances where they resist on one another as well as we’ve seen from shirou and Ari…

I’m just not sure on your stance beyond agreeing Shirou is both a hard slot to read and if scum could be a hard offing.

[Save The Dragons]

definitely mindmeld with that thought from aubrey

hmm

[Toto]

agreed.

That said the case makes sense on pure cold logic of town wr equity, which is ironically what worries me about TGP. Pushing cases based on somewhat defensible logic is what I tend to find easier as scum (as opposed to having to fake reads).

[Shirou]

here is the case for shirou:
if shirou is town, he is going to get NKed by scum in the next couple of days, because they are too powerful for that to not be true, and the WIFOM isn't worth it, but we do get the benefit of a strong townie for at least a couple days, and for the NK to be Shirou as opposed to the second most powerful townie or whatever.
if shirou is scum, he has enough control over the gamestate to consistently get mislims and survive until elo by default, and shirou being scum tilts the scales a

lot

in favor of scum wins.
shirou is not much over rand to be town than to be scum. i'm uncertain how to orient towards reading him. currently scumleaning based on his push on me being a relatively cheap way to get a mislim (oh my god, guess what, TGP's statements are INCONSISTENT with his statements in October 2020, how SCANDALOUS, obviously he must be LYING).

important point here is that if you're not strongly TRing shirou than this case remains strong.

if you agree with these things then Shirou should be the elim and by no circumstances should he survive to Elo.

do you scumread or suspect Una/Lucian?

[NorwegianboyEE]

here is the case for shirou:
if shirou is town, he is going to get NKed by scum in the next couple of days, because they are too powerful for that to not be true, and the WIFOM isn't worth it, but we do get the benefit of a strong townie for at least a couple days, and for the NK to be Shirou as opposed to the second most powerful townie or whatever.
if shirou is scum, he has enough control over the gamestate to consistently get mislims and survive until elo by default, and shirou being scum tilts the scales a

lot

in favor of scum wins.
shirou is not much over rand to be town than to be scum. i'm uncertain how to orient towards reading him. currently scumleaning based on his push on me being a relatively cheap way to get a mislim (oh my god, guess what, TGP's statements are INCONSISTENT with his statements in October 2020, how SCANDALOUS, obviously he must be LYING).

important point here is that if you're not strongly TRing shirou than this case remains strong.

if you agree with these things then Shirou should be the elim and by no circumstances should he survive to Elo.

This is really dumb.
You’re just saying that because Shirou is strong as a player and can be scum we should kill them just to be sure.
I don’t want to play any games like this, least on day 1. Because the potential of having that strong player be town is statistically more likely to be town. Also i don’t think they’ve been scummy in the first place. You even admit yourself that town!Shirou is likely to get NK-ed and resolved anyways but you wanna (??) kill them anyways because they might be scum and endgame? I have a hard time believing that YOU really believe this because it sounds like total bullcrap.

[Toto]

One thing to be said to for town!shurro is they stopped spamming to presumably help the gamestate.

[Toto]

I'm sure future generations of scientists will find whatever he is writing in his PT mindblowing.

[giuseppina]

Someone else echo'd a similar opinion of you not having skin in the game. So it wasn't just me there.

and how do you feel about toto echoing this?

[Aubrey]

Toto doesn’t bother me to much right now.

[giuseppina]

lucian may be town

been staring at 912 forever now and like,

like how is that the post where you go, 'ah lucian might be town!',

like sure i also thought the early readslist from aristeia was good sign, tstbs doesn't apply to aristeia yup agreed,

but like, idk kinda feel like lucian could spin one wheel with each of the players listed and one wheel with random conclusions on it and then iso the player that came up and reach the conclusion that was landed on and it wouldn't look all that much different from this one? and that's basically what happened here? like lucian asked the thread for something to analyze and aristeia was chosen and tada these early posts good later posts not so much (and like, i've now also looked at norwegianboyee's reaction to shirou push yet again and don't really see how it's a particularly towny reaction one so obviously towny to lucian that it should also be apparently towny to aristeia if aristeia is town)

i'm not saying 'this post definitely comes from a mafia' or even, 'this post is more likely to come from a mafia' but i don't see how that post would be the tipping point to you of lucian being town

[Save The Dragons]

I'm a sucker for long posts

[giuseppina]

Toto doesn’t bother me to much right now.

hmm

guess i meant more about that specifically then toto in general but probably not a reasonable way to ask that without being like,

do you find toto's read of me being very very similar to yours possibly town indicative due to 'mindmelding' or whatever,

which sure possible you've both arrived at that conclusion though it is always weird to me when people present very similar reads without acknowledging the one that came first

or do you find it potentially suspicious that toto is presenting a nearly identical read of me (other than the potentially pocketing stuff or whatever which i brought up before toto did anyway)?

which is like a sure, it's also possible toto lifted dunno how likely, to me

and if i am going to ask that way it's like,

eh