Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[Save The Dragons]

starting to go back to ari's just scum here but i'm waffling pretty hard

[Toto]

Klick sell me on Shurro town. Also Pina.

hm, are you worried i am pocketing you, or?

like if i am going to put in effort to read between lines here or whatever you could do the same

feel like maybe i am getting distracted by things but it's like,

unless you're just trying to sort klick i would rather you just filled in the blanks mostly the point of the exercise for me was to see if you would say,

yes that is part of what i was saying and...

or no, that's not what i meant by that,

and so forth

I am worried a little bit, yes.

Sorry I'm not sure I follow what you are asking me to do. Are you saying I should be more open about what I'm thinking when I post stuff?

[Toto]

So tldr I have to many reads close to null. This game is weird.

im usually suspicious when people post things like this but i don't think anything else toto has done has pinged me

I'm usually suspicious of things like that too fwiw. By 50ish pages in the game I'm usually already deathtunneled or have a good working set of theories of scum teams of wtf is going on but I'm not getting that this game.

[giuseppina]

Klick sell me on Shurro town. Also Pina.

hm, are you worried i am pocketing you, or?

like if i am going to put in effort to read between lines here or whatever you could do the same

feel like maybe i am getting distracted by things but it's like,

unless you're just trying to sort klick i would rather you just filled in the blanks mostly the point of the exercise for me was to see if you would say,

yes that is part of what i was saying and...

or no, that's not what i meant by that,

and so forth

I am worried a little bit, yes.

Sorry I'm not sure I follow what you are asking me to do. Are you saying I should be more open about what I'm thinking when I post stuff?

it's like, you're asking klick about me right, which kinda implies you're a bit worried and such (or trying to appear to be so / see if others are or whatever),

but it hasn't felt like, like when given the opportunity to interact with me directly to better feel this out, to solidify your worries or make them go away or whatever, it hasn't felt like you've taken that opportunity

and i don't really know how to ask you to be more open about things, i tried doing the filling in the blanks for what i thought you may be thinking at various times as a means of trying to get you to engage with it, so i could see more of what you were thinking / how you were viewing the game / if it felt like you were trying to determine alignments but you did not really respond to my doing so at all,

so it's like, maybe toto is worried i was attempting to pocket or something? and that's why toto didn't engage but then is asking klick why giuseppina town

but like, that seems like an odd interpretation of my attempts at interacting with you

so if you were trying to sort klick more by about view of me, it's like, sure maybe i guess? but don't you have better means of trying to sort me at your disposal if it's about me?

[giuseppina]

right like i'm not asking you to say

'giuseppina this is what i am worried about should i not be worried about this?' as that would be pretty silly

but giuseppina, what did you mean by this? or what were you thinking when you said this? or what was the impetus for this post? or if this is true, then what do you think about this?

or literally any means of sorting me while also making yourself more sortable would be nice i guess

but like i said, kinda feels like i may be getting distracted by things

[Toto]

it's like, you're asking klick about me right, which kinda implies you're a bit worried and such (or trying to appear to be so / see if others are or whatever),

I asked klick because she was town reading you and I wasn't fully convinced, I did honestly hope to get convinced because having some stronger town reads this game would be good.

but yeah I already said why I'm a bit worried about you in the "reads of everyone" post. I don't think you have done anything particularly scummy other than not taking a stronger stance. There is some element of you trying to guess why I'm reading someone as scumwhich is a bit odd and did make me feel like you are trying to pocket me. I understand the town explanation for that is you are trying to sort me too.

Whats your read on me currently btw?

[giuseppina]

it's like, you're asking klick about me right, which kinda implies you're a bit worried and such (or trying to appear to be so / see if others are or whatever),

I asked klick because she was town reading you and I wasn't fully convinced, I did honestly hope to get convinced because having some stronger town reads this game would be good.

but yeah I already said why I'm a bit worried about you in the "reads of everyone" post. I don't think you have done anything particularly scummy other than not taking a stronger stance. There is some element of you trying to guess why I'm reading someone as scumwhich is a bit odd and did make me feel like you are trying to pocket me. I understand the town explanation for that is you are trying to sort me too.

Whats your read on me currently btw?

re: 'reads of everyone post' - hadn't gotten there yet but, uh, expecting me to be concise is kinda ...

like i get that i am not always clear and if you feel that you are not following something or you do not know how i feel about something or anything, please just ask

yeah maybe it would be easier for everyone if i just stated things like,

i believe x to be mafia, and y to be town

but a) i do not think anyone would listen to me anyway and b) that's not how i think of things and c) do not think i would survive day 1 if i suddenly became a 'this is my readslist it is Correct everyone should sheep it' sort of player

i do not think my not taking a stronger stance thus far is mafia indicative of me (or most players really), i view the game in possibilities and it seems so strange to me when players state things concretely that to me, as town, cannot possibly be so concrete (thus my comment at the bottom of my post to aubrey re: your post on the bottom of page one)

there are a few factors - i find it kinda fun to try to determine what is being communicated by things like 'hmmmmmmm' and then i think it's pretty useful to try to determine the unstated, like why you're reading someone as scum, like oh it could be this or this and that would track, or this seems possibly because scum!toto thinks doing so would be advantageous and such, and also as a means of trying to engage you in a way that doesn't immediately let you know what i may be looking for,

like i think you could better determine whether or not i was attempting to pocket you simply by interacting with me more, not less,

i've thought you were town at times mostly because it felt like things followed, like i felt like you posting the things you were when you were made sense, but it was never like a super strong thing

i guess there are parallels with other players on things like 'let's kill animes' or view of shirou push on norwegianboyee that are kinda hmm but trying to do possible associatives quickly spirals into many many more possibilities

[Toto]

but a) i do not think anyone would listen to me anyway and b) that's not how i think of things and c) do not think i would survive day 1 if i suddenly became a 'this is my readslist it is Correct everyone should sheep it' sort of player

i do not think my not taking a stronger stance thus far is mafia indicative of me (or most players really), i view the game in possibilities and it seems so strange to me when players state things concretely that to me, as town, cannot possibly be so concrete (thus my comment at the bottom of my post to aubrey re: your post on the bottom of page one)

so yeah the scum!you case is you are trying to survive (see your #c) by letting town murder each other and staying on the sidelines.

[giuseppina]

but a) i do not think anyone would listen to me anyway and b) that's not how i think of things and c) do not think i would survive day 1 if i suddenly became a 'this is my readslist it is Correct everyone should sheep it' sort of player

i do not think my not taking a stronger stance thus far is mafia indicative of me (or most players really), i view the game in possibilities and it seems so strange to me when players state things concretely that to me, as town, cannot possibly be so concrete (thus my comment at the bottom of my post to aubrey re: your post on the bottom of page one)

so yeah the scum!you case is you are trying to survive (see your #c) by letting town murder each other and staying on the sidelines.

i mean, i am trying to survive i think all towns should be trying not to be miseliminated and i have stated as much many times before

but mostly i am trying to find a scums day one and then hopefully get nightkilled if you really want to know what i am trying to do

[Aubrey]

anyway if there's an opinion that i haven't given on something you think i should have an opinion on, you could, idk, ask? like do you think i would be unlikely to answer? i don't really understand

The issue isn't me thinking I don't think you would answer me. The issue is, I don't feel the need to ask someone where they stand sometimes in the game-state. As town, they should be putting out their stances in my world view. If they are not, then that to me can be a negative and favor a mafian mindset.

At the time of writing 1030 I didn't feel like i knew where you stood anywhere really. I'm still not sure I fully know your stances. I like your activity. I like some of your questions. I probably don't want you out'd D1...But you're a slot i'm likely to waver on from time to time and that concerns me, due to the reasons I stated. Someone else echo'd a similar opinion of you not having skin in the game. So it wasn't just me there.

Shirou vs. TGP is reading more old school vs. new school to me. I low key like TGP, though I admit I’m super biased.

Personally this has been a hard game for me to dig my heels into and feel like I can perform well. I was excited to join, but I’m slowly remembering why I began to dip away. like I was trained by the “older gen” on a different site I guess, and play though more of a analytical lens and mafia theory lens over Meta this Meta that, that one game we played this, omg why are you reading me like that when I was blah in blah. Like that line of reasoning isn’t something I consider or able to participate in. And the new style of not trying to play to you’re alignment but play hard to read is just a site meta I never got and still feel like I’m seeing….all in all I feel like that maybe a similar feeling TGP and possibly BBT was feeling. Not to put thoughts and emotion in your mouths.

For the record I’m leaving BBT as null, he might have just decided he didn’t care to read.

i think, if you do want to go heavily into analytics and mafia theory here, that there are quite a few players that would also happily have those conversations with you, myself included

like i don't really think it's exclusively one or the other, and i do love playing connect the dots,

I appreciate the reach out here, thanks.

aubrey badgering pina to vote is giving me feels

this still i keep thinking about and... there's the aristeia thing and the like 'oh it sure would be scummy if you didn't vote' sort of thing which like, ??? like not voting isn't actually a mafia indicative thing in anyway just like the 'not casting its own opinions' thing isn't mafia indicative that's not really how things work and the way aubrey seems to be taking those things into heavy consideration when compared to the rest of my posts, my approach to the game and such, why i would be doing what i am doing if i were mafia, or anything like that, it feels like

like it feels like aubrey is trying to say, 'look at these negatives! look everyone, giuseppina doesn't state its thoughts as hard conclusions! giuseppina doesn't vote' while townreading me and saying, but we will look at those things later, as if those things somehow carry a significant amount of weight that i don't really see why town would think those were so important towards determining alignment,

but i am me so obvious bias involved in my trying to evaluate

I vote tells me you have reasons to suspect scum in a slot. It tells me you have an opinion. I didn't get you having much of an opinion early game. I've played active prodding scum with questions that fake sorting slots while keeping my options very open and loose while waiting to see where the town would go. It's a standard philosophy of mine, so please don't tell me that isn't a viable strategy. Out of the 5 times I've played mafian in a completed game, my team and I have won. I've yet to be voted out of a town or killed as mafia. The tactic has merits, so it's something I keep in the back of my mind.

--

Klick or Aubrey could easily be mafia as well, I think

I'm not sure I care to engage in this. I think it better to find a scum, then start trying to put pairs together. If there is a question for me here though, I'd be happy to answer it.


--

aubrey's tone feels off to me. it's hard to describe and it's not something i think we need to kill kill kill right away, i want to see what happens if i put my vote there.

This is something I can't really engage with. But the reasoning seems fine to me I guess. Not sure what the scum motive would be.


--


I'm ending this here. There is a lot that has happened this morning, and I need to actually read this and not fast skim I think. I've played full games that ended between 40-80 pages, so yall are a super active bunch haha.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda paranoid of Klick ngl

I'd be interested in hearing why

I don’t think your reads are as fleshed out as they could be
I also think your scumgame could be better than others give you credit for

[Gamma Emerald]

Or you can be convincing and correct and everyone still thinks you can be scum for absolutely no fucking reason

The problem at that point is that you haven't been sufficiently convincing

Why the fuck did you think that was about this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

@TGP

what do you make of Norwee rn?

This is important for me

@TGP

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills

ehhhhhhhhhhhh

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sigh coming off a game where i just pointed out a mafia "townslipping" in this way and then said mafia was like 'oh whatever do you mean whyever would i state something like that i knew to be false as mafia' and then another mafia was like, 'what did you mean by this why would a townslip be mafia indicative' sort of thing

it is like,

i want to put no value into this but if anything i think it's somewhat likely to come from mafia yeah,

I have to literally force myself to think about stuff like this as little as possible because although I'm aware that this stuff happens both accidentally as town and intentionally as scum, my brain REALLY likes chucking stuff like that into the town bin automatically

Eh it could be valuable

[Klick]

i posted reads because toto asked me for reads

I'm aware
The feeling that your posting is for others to see and not for your own understanding isn't limited to just that interaction

i do not post for my own understanding

i post so others can understand my thoughts

i understand myself just fine without posting

Okay
That's not going to do much to resolve my ability to read you though

[Klick]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

Uncharitableness?
I don't really see how my treatment of you has been uncharitable
Can you expand

[Klick]

I’m kinda paranoid of Klick ngl

I'd be interested in hearing why

I don’t think your reads are as fleshed out as they could be
I also think your scumgame could be better than others give you credit for

I don't go into full detail about my reads early on as a general rule
I used to but I had enough of getting written off as a VI for my solving process years ago
People only really get beyond an abridged version of my reads if they ask

Or you can be convincing and correct and everyone still thinks you can be scum for absolutely no fucking reason

The problem at that point is that you haven't been sufficiently convincing

Why the fuck did you think that was about this game?

This is unnecessarily aggro
You were talking theoretically and I thought it was interesting so I also responded theoretically

[Aristeia]

i think the most townie thing klick has done is that i dont think scum klick treats me with this level of uncharitableness. its so over the top that i feel like it usually comes from tunneled townies.

Uncharitableness?
I don't really see how my treatment of you has been uncharitable
Can you expand

toto asked me for my reads and you called me scum for giving him reads

[Aristeia]

like it feels like you are viewing my actions through the lens of she is scum and she is doing this because she is scum without really considering if I would do this if I am town.

[Aristeia]

even your point about me being scum because i "want to be perceived" as town

like why wouldnt i want to be perceived as town if im town?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda paranoid of Klick ngl

I'd be interested in hearing why

I don’t think your reads are as fleshed out as they could be
I also think your scumgame could be better than others give you credit for

I don't go into full detail about my reads early on as a general rule
I used to but I had enough of getting written off as a VI for my solving process years ago
People only really get beyond an abridged version of my reads if they ask

Or you can be convincing and correct and everyone still thinks you can be scum for absolutely no fucking reason

The problem at that point is that you haven't been sufficiently convincing

Why the fuck did you think that was about this game?

This is unnecessarily aggro
You were talking theoretically and I thought it was interesting so I also responded theoretically

Well maybe think about the fact that your generality may not apply to a specific instance I had in mind?
Like, in the game I was thinking of, there were 2 deadline crunches in a row and I contributed to getting scum yeeted both times. So it’s like, what the fuck else do people need short of mod announcement in-thread?

[Aristeia]

the comparison to pina and shirou is also kind of gross because its like ok sure there is a difference in that you can say my posting is more self-pres than either of them

but niether of them are in danger of being elimmed so why wouldnt it be?

you dont really consider my motives as town you just kind of say oh this is scum motivated if shes scum.

[TheGoldenParadox]

@TGP

what do you make of Norwee rn?

This is important for me

@TGP

+rand to be town but not by much, don't have strong evidence that would make me particularly TR them

[Aristeia]

like do you think if shirou or pina were at e-2 and there were multiple people not on the wagon saying they were scummy that they would not try to self-pres at that point?

its just a comparison that doesnt make any sense to me

[Gamma Emerald]

@TGP

what do you make of Norwee rn?

This is important for me

@TGP

+rand to be town but not by much, don't have strong evidence that would make me particularly TR them

Why?