Newbie 2109: Taco Hemingway | Game Over

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Dionysus Probably evil.

Town(by exclusion)FroggyMaybe, CCGeek, AurorusVox, Space, Weuler, Wayward Son


Scum:Dionysus, Fredrick A Campbell

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

(Their reactions to Dionysus being E-2 are awful)

This is a bad bad bad look. These are NK15 first two posts.

NK15 votes Dio, says Dio is scum in post 2 but swaps to Frederick without much to say besides both of them have bad reactions.

So what made Frederick's worse? And why is NK15 still here over the bad reaction from the actual person who was being pressured?

Post 9 was actually a RVS vote, so... yeah.

It was also post 1 before you said with confidence Dio and Fred were scum.

So why swap from Duo to Fred?

And tell me, with Duo acting scummy in the thread as of so far, what happened to yoyr scumread on them?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well that was certainly an aggressive approach to the game

Aggressive, certainly.

But it's how I play. It's Rise of the Phoenix not Rise of the Lamb.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also fuck my phone autocorrecting Dio to Duo

[Not Known 15]

Ahahahahahahhaah

That's a terrible description of his reads.

He starts off scum reading a pair, then gives his logic for a town read on space which he maintains.

He changes his scum reads because he feels humble and suspects that the hard scum reads on him are town. This isn't something a scum player who wants to avoid dying would do.

He then interacts with Weu and switches his read there. Again, this is a townie read progression from a player who is lost and genuinely sorting the game.

Yes, loose reads are slightly +town. Yet they also fit a scum under pressure trying to find someone who actually gets wagoned(on Day 1 scum being the top wagon and all other wagons dying down quickly is terrible for scum)
And the quality of the reads is simply not SE material, which is more likely coming from scum.
The idea of trying to be scummy is just terrible in a newbie game and usually doesn't come from experienced town or scum so it's most likely a lie.
Campbell has claimed VT so we have to lim you anyways unless we are absolutely sure you are town and someone else is not(to protect our PR's).
But you are probably scum... so...

[Dionysus]

Well that was certainly an aggressive approach to the game

Aggressive, certainly.

But it's how I play. It's Rise of the Phoenix not Rise of the Lamb.

Aggressive play is my preference too, where have you been? This game before your arrival was far too clinical.

Shame you're scum

[Not Known 15]

It was also post 1 before you said with confidence Dio and Fred were scum.

So why swap from Duo to Fred?

And tell me, with Duo acting scummy in the thread as of so far, what happened to yoyr scumread on them?

Dio could be a bus on you, so they are still in the scumpile, just not alone.


About the swap... I don't know anymore why for sure. It has been several days... maybe I thought Campbell was easier to crack.

[AurorusVox]

LLD! What a blast from the past!

Please can you give me a read on WS?

I was about to ask you to reconcile your paired read with the NK post where he asked me to consider Fred-Dio. But then I realised they -if- your slot is town, then that’s an easy suspicion to then later dismiss (because the pair can no longer be true). Personally though, NK is my second strongest townread, so I won’t be voting them today.

Pedit: NK pushed me when it looked like I’d dropped my Dio suspicion. I don’t think they’ve let Dio slide by.

———

My primary concern is that we end up with no consensus and no elimination; there isn’t a great deal of time to organise another wagon. My secondary issue here is that if anyone is capable of turning a scumread into a townread - regardless of alignment - I think you’d be a good shout for it. I mean, I’m already feeling like not voting for you! My tertiary concern would be running up another claim and risking outing a PR and we eliminate Fred slot anyway.

@Dio, it’s not about no one wanting to eliminate Fred at the moment, it’s about giving people time to post their final reads. With the risk of being night killed, I need to make sure I’m contributing as much as I can at the end of the day to support town going forward. LLD is here to post content and whether that slot is eliminated or not, we get valuable information from seeing what they have to say.

———

Weuler, to be clear, have you unvoted because you believe them to be town, or because you were worried about someone hammering before LLD could post their views?

[Not Known 15]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate, brother. Dionysus is at E-3.

Not Known 15, Space and CCGeek are voting Dionysus, putting Dionysus at E-2.
VOTE: CCGeek
I don't believe what I quoted was an innocent mistake.

In my opinion, anyone who has firmly stated that I am mafia with confidence are town. The following are players who fall into this category:
1. Space
2. Dionysus
3. CCGeek
4. Not Known 15

VOTE: Weuler
Why didn't my actions make you suspicious of me?

At the end these are still BS.
Especially the second! Scum not trying to jump on a suspicious townie is just so awful reasoning from a town standpoint(an experienced townie would instinctively know that scum love to vote scummy townies, an experienced scum might still not have that on the list because they are not really trying to discern what scum want to do because they know...)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD! What a blast from the past!

Please can you give me a read on WS?

I was about to ask you to reconcile your paired read with the NK post where he asked me to consider Fred-Dio. But then I realised they -if- your slot is town, then that’s an easy suspicion to then later dismiss (because the pair can no longer be true). Personally though, NK is my second strongest townread, so I won’t be voting them today.

Pedit: NK pushed me when it looked like I’d dropped my Dio suspicion. I don’t think they’ve let Dio slide by.

———

My primary concern is that we end up with no consensus and no elimination; there isn’t a great deal of time to organise another wagon. My secondary issue here is that if anyone is capable of turning a scumread into a townread - regardless of alignment - I think you’d be a good shout for it. I mean, I’m already feeling like not voting for you! My tertiary concern would be running up another claim and risking outing a PR and we eliminate Fred slot anyway.

@Dio, it’s not about no one wanting to eliminate Fred at the moment, it’s about giving people time to post their final reads. With the risk of being night killed, I need to make sure I’m contributing as much as I can at the end of the day to support town going forward. LLD is here to post content and whether that slot is eliminated or not, we get valuable information from seeing what they have to say.

———

Weuler, to be clear, have you unvoted because you believe them to be town, or because you were worried about someone hammering before LLD could post their views?

I'll give you a WS read when I get home and have better ISO access.

I get the fear of me but also consider the benefit of me and my reads.

Read Frederic again under the lens they were humbled by the pressure on them and trying to find a solving foothold they believed in.

And then read the people making arguments about fear of running up other claims.

It's way worse to kill a townie day 1 with little info gained than possibly force a claim. This setup has win equity with a day 1 mass claim. More equity than with a day 1 town elimination.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But if there is one thing I can alleviate your concern of its this.

There will be an elimination today. I will guarantee it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So work on not letting your reads stagnate, work with me to find scum and we will gather the votes to kill them together.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also AV, then where are the Dio votes?

If you NK and I are all suspicious of Dio, why not create a Dio wagon?

I admit that NK's response to my push is much more town than Dio's was. It's my preference to kill Dio today now anyway.

If I'm scum, from NK's perspective I would be bussing right?

So hop aboard my bus and let's build that wagon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well that was certainly an aggressive approach to the game

Aggressive, certainly.

But it's how I play. It's Rise of the Phoenix not Rise of the Lamb.

Aggressive play is my preference too, where have you been? This game before your arrival was far too clinical.

Shame you're scum

I don't generally play newbie games, but KingTroll is someone I pulled from another site over to this site and I saw an opportunity to play this game with them spook

I took the opportunity~

[Space]

Sorry I can’t really communicate a lot (still need to get home), but while Lady brings up good points I’m trying to think why Fredrick left in the first place. If I was a VT like he claimed, I would’ve sticked around even if I died because of that. Makes me think that Fredrick wasn’t a VT and could be a different role (either a scum or PR). Either one feels like it explains the actions by his slot, so I’m unsure if I wish to risk this Lim.

Lady, what is your thoughts on the other wagon of Wayward?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry I can’t really communicate a lot (still need to get home), but while Lady brings up good points I’m trying to think why Fredrick left in the first place. If I was a VT like he claimed, I would’ve sticked around even if I died because of that. Makes me think that Fredrick wasn’t a VT and could be a different role (either a scum or PR). Either one feels like it explains the actions by his slot, so I’m unsure if I wish to risk this Lim.

Lady, what is your thoughts on the other wagon of Wayward?

So a few things

1) we can't discuss replaceouts.
2) I am 100% a Vanilla Townie.

I'll give WS read and wagon thoughts when I get home from work.

[Space]

Sorry, just was on my mind.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I understand the desire to discuss it, for sure. It's just a site rule so I wanted to stop you before you got in trouble.

[Weuler]

Weuler, to be clear, have you unvoted because you believe them to be town, or because you were worried about someone hammering before LLD could post their views?

I didn't want them to get hammered before giving their reads. My read on the slot has not flipped to town, but I am less certain about them being scum. One of my main points for scumreading in the first place was Campbell's scummy logic, but I am becoming more uncertain whether that was just bad logic from Camp.

[AurorusVox]

@LLD I think it’s disingenuous to suggest that a Fred-slot elimination is one that offers “little info gained.” My biggest question is why Fred never voted WS when he expressed suspicions of them. For a long time, WS was at E-2 and they never voted for them. KT is also somewhat tied to your slot (that’s a little harder to parse). But I do think the elimination gives info on those two in particular.

Actually, I’d love a read on KT too when you are back.

@NK @weuler: how do both of you feel about LLD’s push on Dio?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD I think it’s disingenuous to suggest that a Fred-slot elimination is one that offers “little info gained.” My biggest question is why Fred never voted WS when he expressed suspicions of them. For a long time, WS was at E-2 and they never voted for them. KT is also somewhat tied to your slot (that’s a little harder to parse). But I do think the elimination gives info on those two in particular.

Actually, I’d love a read on KT too when you are back.

@NK @weuler: how do both of you feel about LLD’s push on Dio?

Its literqlly stagnated so much that no one can seem to give me a clear idea about why he is scummy. The game stalled and now peiple are arguing " well we just have to kill that slot".

I feel very justified in saying its a low info elimination on a townie.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I will look into KT as well

[AurorusVox]

Okay. So: reasons I have found Fred suspect:

(1) Saying townies would be suspicious of him

while simultaneously

saying he scumreads someone voting for him and someone who is suspicious of him (= inconsistencies of reads, potentially because they’re fabricated)
(2) Saying he is suspicious of WS but never voting for him (= possible bus/distancing)
(3) Saying scum would not be suspicious of him when literally everyone but one person, who had yet to post in-game, had expressed their suspicion of him (= clearly untrue if Fred is town)
(4) Saying he acted purposefully scummy as an excuse for his behaviour when questioned (= perhaps he had no other, ie “town,” excuse for those behaviours)

I’ve looked at your explanations on potential reasons for the flip flopping. I don’t think that reasoning applies to everything here.

———

I will go back and reread Dio tomorrow. I have been wrestling with it for a while and I think I get the point you make about mass claim equity vs town mis-lim equity - essentially that even doing a mass claim is less detrimental to town than an elimination on town day 1?

Does that still hold true for just 2x claims? And is this just anecdotal or based on statistics and town win %s?

[DkKoba]

Searching for a replacement for Wayward Son

[DkKoba]

Save The Dragons replaces Wayward Son

[Save The Dragons]

CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SOOOOOOOOOOON