Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[notscience]

Dunn who seems like a relatively common scumread but has no votes

But it’s also Dunn and that’s not unheard of for town dunn

[Taly]

It has occurred to me I'm townreading people I've interacted most, so that's a bias.

Taly

Pedit

I agree that Dunn is quiet this game, it's more of an NAI read than a scum to me.

[Taly]

I have to go but this was a productive conversation.

Taly

[petapan]

i'm fairly sure in the ensuing decade+ of this setup being run scum have never doubled up, not once. letting town get first shot at the strong PRs is too risky. Was the same when I drafted as scum - we discussed it but chickened out.

now, that being said, let me interrogate your view here - you say unwnd is scum for not paying attention to the draft numbers when he was forming his reads list and putting together two players who can't be scum. what make you certain scum is unlikely to think about/care about such things, as opposed to town who is simply going by feels on day 1 and not thinking about guessing the exact team? maybe he wasn't even paying attention to the numbers. in my experience i feel like town is a lot more likely to be careless about those things and make reads in a free association way, where scum are going to be more concerned with making sure everything makes 'sense' from a draft logic pov

I think town is looking to solve game. I think they're going to use what tools they have. Sure, some people don't give a shit. Does that strike you as Uwnwd? As scum you have to fake that. Not telling you much if I tell you scum know all the townies, right? You can't legitimately scumhunt, you have to fake it. All of that is about fitting in. And moving a few names around because it "looks wrong" or "I wouldn't be townreading that person" is common.

Do I see Uwnwd trying to solve the game? No. Do I see them trying to look like they're trying to solve the game? Yes.

Do I buy your logic that scum are better town than town? Nah bro. People have thought processes, and you can work through what they are. And Uwnwd hasn't talked to Dunnstral once, yet has them as their second scummiest person, when they should be looking to find a firm town read in those two (what they say they care about?)

This is a good vote. Come. Join in.

nah i'm good

i don't really find this a convincing gotcha

[petapan]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: save the dragons


find marci's play frustrating but not sure it's actually scum indicative

[Lukewarm]

i think you're being calculating and performative and that's why i think you're scum. i encourage people to look at your iso and determine for themselves if they agree or not. i would bring examples but i'm too busy being hysterical right now and can't bring myself to do it.

but an example is the "this makes my skin crawl" thing said to luke about his comment on peta and lld solving the game for him.

@Std, if you thought that the way that he approached me there "makes your skin crawl" - as you read it happening- why did you then end up with you best take being that I was tmi'ing him town?

And if you did not think that until recently, what made you look back at that portion of the game to result in this comment?

[Lukewarm]

I'm gonna need some receipts. Not that the trajectory isn't there, but I don't know where I went from "not sticking my neck out" to bell tier town. I also have been kinda following this weird lockstep thing that's been going on with peta and ceph and it's weirding me out it shows up here again.

What do you mean by the weird lockstep going on with Peta and Ceph. Like they have been doing it? Or that it is a repeated pattern for them by unwnd? or?

[Lukewarm]

What's weird is I'm townreading the whole wagon but also leaning town on unwnd and I'm not super sure how to reconcile that fact with the lack of a counterwagon?

If he is town, and most of his voters are town, why would scum be focused on building a counter wagon?

What are you struggling to reconcile about that game state vs your reads?

[Cephrir]

Survive and not do anything productive of course!

I also think this is an oversimplification of my plan

I try to be a lot more disruptive as scum, (read: keep your hydra and Medea from working together)

Oh no he’s self metaing he must be scum

Yet me trying to get two players TO work together is apparently the strangest thing you have ever seen

[Lukewarm]

Speaking of my *kill for being forgettable pile* KingTroll, STD, and GreyIce are all rounding out that space where I am struggling to remember much of anything that they have done this game outside of KingTrolls initial entrace, STD's meme posts, and GreyIce yelling for LLD to make him a sandwich.

this is real weak

greyice clearly didn't give two craps about the game, which for someone who is basically retired is a nulltell at worst

kingtroll to that point was behind in the game, so, like, of course he didn't do much. but i think since catching up he's been fine and tbh i buy the story about not reading/paying attention to the setup as a slightly disinvested townie, doesn't strike me as the type of player to fake something like that

beyond that it seems like defaulting to sort by post count rather than making actual inquiry into what people are doing

I think that you misunderstood the category. I have recently started doing this thing when I make reads lists where there is Town/Null/Scum/Forgettable categories. Forgettable is its own catergory that kinda exists outside of the town<->scum dynamic. I am differentiating that section out instead of leaving them in the null / null:scum areas, but that area is solidly in a "I would rather them die over people who are memorable yet still unsorted"

If I were to turn that actual post into a reads list, I would have had LLD null scum., Bell and Ceph scum lean, and no one in the scum read category, And those three in their own category off to the side.

(Also, I have yet to see a kingtroll post since his opening, and it was his entire lack of existance after that that put him into that category. I see now that he has made posts in a section of the game that I have not read yet, and need to get back to)

[Cephrir]

Also what I said about LLD and cephs normal dynamic per something lld mentioned (I think in the postgame of FGO 1 but I’d really have to go digging and I’m at work) not being here is also concerning to me

FGO is an odd source to use for that given it being an anonymous game

I'm not sure we have a normal dynamic. Usually I am inclined to listen to her if I think she's town but I don't give out that read easily?

[Lukewarm]

Can you see it I wonder? Mmmm. Small oopsies

I feel like I am completely missing the point that you are trying to make here

[Cephrir]

i'm fairly sure in the ensuing decade+ of this setup being run scum have never doubled up, not once. letting town get first shot at the strong PRs is too risky. Was the same when I drafted as scum - we discussed it but chickened out.

now, that being said, let me interrogate your view here - you say unwnd is scum for not paying attention to the draft numbers when he was forming his reads list and putting together two players who can't be scum. what make you certain scum is unlikely to think about/care about such things, as opposed to town who is simply going by feels on day 1 and not thinking about guessing the exact team? maybe he wasn't even paying attention to the numbers. in my experience i feel like town is a lot more likely to be careless about those things and make reads in a free association way, where scum are going to be more concerned with making sure everything makes 'sense' from a draft logic pov

I think town is looking to solve game. I think they're going to use what tools they have. Sure, some people don't give a shit. Does that strike you as Uwnwd? As scum you have to fake that. Not telling you much if I tell you scum know all the townies, right? You can't legitimately scumhunt, you have to fake it. All of that is about fitting in. And moving a few names around because it "looks wrong" or "I wouldn't be townreading that person" is common.

Do I see Uwnwd trying to solve the game? No. Do I see them trying to look like they're trying to solve the game? Yes.

Do I buy your logic that scum are better town than town? Nah bro. People have thought processes, and you can work through what they are. And Uwnwd hasn't talked to Dunnstral once, yet has them as their second scummiest person, when they should be looking to find a firm town read in those two (what they say they care about?)

This is a good vote. Come. Join in.

nah i'm good

i don't really find this a convincing gotcha

I thought this post in my brain but never made it

Oh no we're moving in lockstep again *spooky jazz hands*

[Cephrir]

I'm uneasy at the idea of unwnd having 5 votes right now. Not positive he's town but it feels unwarranted

[Lukewarm]

Oh no. I'm criticizing that when you made this list you forgot the central mechanic of the game. This is, after all, PYP.

Now I'm not going to expect a shoot-from-the-hip dgaf player to remember how the game works, but analytical players always do. Faking analysis though, well, there's a lot of interaction, and you can smell the Lukewarm wagon, but Dunnstral just isn't doing anything. So he has to slide down. And of course for a second you forgot it was PYP when you put it together.

I bet notscience sees it now. If you don't, check the #4 bear~

Ah.

Do you think that at this point in the game that Unwnd would be thinking of his scum reads in terms of how they mesh together as a team?

[Cephrir]

When making my last post I forgot it was 8 to lim and not 7

[notscience]

As I’ve clearly said it is based off LLDs own description of the dynamic not matching what I’m seeing.

[Lukewarm]

It's so hard to ignore when your scumbuddies are playing scummy. It's like this constant thorn in your side. Do you call them out? Hope they improve? Try to pull a "you're frustrating but that's your playstyle"? Dump them on the bottom of the reads list and not say much? Where to put your buddies in your reads list is always the last thing you do unless you have a specific plan, and it's hard to make a specific plan with people not posting.

Yes, I do rather like this vote a lot.

And if you're focused so hard on finding town instead of finding scum, and are convinced that at least one of Luke and Dunn are town... well, man that might be a 50/50, but if my vote was floating in that region I'd at least be interested in chatting with Dunn quite a bit.

Okay, so I am not sure that I buy this as as much of a smoking gun as greyice is trying to sell, but I am liking that greyice has come tumbling out of the forgetable category with a very strong, novel read. Mapping back unwnds reads list to the original draft feels town motivated, and also a point I don't think that scum him would be that inclined to just know off the top of his head unless he was scum with exactly Dunn.

[Cephrir]

Sure

I wouldn't expect us to have a very defined T/T dynamic since that has not actually happened that many times

[Dunnstral]

While i drift to sleep let me do some freestyle rambles about my husband and his alignment.

greyice is a player everyolen should be afraid of because he is adeptly skilled at doing what he does. what he does is a very aggressive attack, good defensive understanding of his positional advantages and weaknesses and utilizing all tools on deck to ensure his wincons are played to.

essentially, he plays mafia like he plays a deckbuilder. reliable is best, replicatable is better and being passive gets you nowhere but a loss.

so it's hard to read him just on what he does because he might be building for a wincon that doesn't involve you having much time alive, or even showing off to you that he's scum.

so i choose to read the negative space around him.

like, if he has good logic, bonus. But what's that logic causing in a ripple efffect around him?

Well, pressuring Unwnd as a primary entry to the game while unwnd is the top wagon doesn't garner him much town cred if unwnd is scum, but loses him a lot if unwnd is town.

so not a bus, it's not svs

so then, what's the goal? if it's unwnd scum GI town, it's simple. He's found a read and is pushing it, correctly.

If both town, same thing but substitute "incorrectly".

But what if GreyICE is scum and Unwnd is town? what does greyice gain here?

he doesn't gain thread control, for sure

he's low on lots of player lists on read wise, so he could easily die from a missed shot

there's not a lot that is gained unless Unwnd was on the right track with Luke.

And this was a follow up to prevent a Luke elimination.

but even then, this is the 5th vote on the wagon? so it's not like he needed to do this to protect anyone really

infact, it almost feels like it would have been better for him to push on someone scummy, who would give some push back to him and let him be townread, but never die today.

Like a cephrir vote with confidence and good logical arguments for why he's scum would have been way more ideal for him as scum, so...

reading the negative space of what he didn't do he feels town?

not that i can be 100%, but that's how i've arrived at this read

thank you for listening to traumatized girl in the dark rambling up next is AHHHHH! but who WERE the real monsters? Staring Harvey Weinstein

OK, I find this convincing

[Bell]

I actually find GrayIce’s take over explainy.
But I don’t really recall them being explainy as either alignment. So I dunno what to do with that, if anything. It does bother me though so I guess I lean scum on it.

[Lukewarm]

she has 16 posts and is one of the more divergent players in the playerlist who would struggle to post as scum

Marci has definitly been falling off the radar, but I don't really think that "struggles to post as scum" is as true about her in general that people seem to think of her. I know that she froze in Tarot, but I actually think that that is the outlier, not the norm for her scum game, but a lot of people have walked away from Tarot with that impression of her.

Funny enough, I feel like I am normally in the position of telling people not to give her town passes for this reason, instead of the inverse lol

I don't really think that her getting disengaged from a game is particularly scum indicative for her, given our two hydra games, they both had full days where I was almost exclusively piloting our slot alone.

All in all, I think that Marci would be a null read for me if we exclude her page 1 posts that made me think she was town, but with that its a weak town lean I think.

[Lukewarm]

I actually find GrayIce’s take over explainy.
But I don’t really recall them being explainy as either alignment. So I dunno what to do with that, if anything. It does bother me though so I guess I lean scum on it.

I don't believe I have ever encountered GrayIce before, so no real point of reference. For me, it was more that they were happily flying under the radar, and then skyrocketed them selves into the spot light, when most scum players are kinda happy being under the radar

[Lukewarm]

i grow increasingly more okay with not listening to people below me in the draft but you dont see me complaining

Oh look, I think town marci came back to the thread lol

[Lukewarm]

Luke what’s your take on this?

The page that this question was asked on has me back to thinking that she is town

The level of confrontation she is bringing feels distinctly in line with town Marci imo