Legends of the Buisness Company [Staplers Take Over the World]

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:07 am

I dont agree.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:09 am

The tone and the general approach to reading the game and finding leads is the same.

The format isn't what I'm talking about. Psyche feels earnest to me in both games and in both games is being ineffective at providing reads and opinions that are acceptable to the people pushing them but I feel like the process he's using to approach the game and the way he's talking is very similar.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:12 am

In post 4050, Save The Dragons wrote: even if you disagree with me i don't know how you're getting a tone read match from 29 posts

The match to what I see as the tone of his town games combined with me being really the only person opposing this lim combined with the person at the forefront of it (shirou) being the person I think is most likely to flip scum combined with the tons of people in this game who are saying things like well I don't really think psyche is scum but I guess if its inevitable I'll move over there (a thing scum frequently say) when its that exact attitude that it is making it inevitable makes me very strongly feel like psyche is going to flip town.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:14 am

Give me your 5 best arguments for why you think psyche is scum concisely and I will consider them but gamestate reasons and my general feeling that his tone feels town and his posts feel like they don't have an agenda is going to make it super hard for me to get over there.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:41 am

Nah I think I'll just go into petulant anti-spew mode here myself. Whatever.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:49 am

I have been posting for like 100 pages now on shirou being scum and I don't really feel like boiling it down into bullet points which I understand is crap because that's what I just asked you to do but I am extremely tired of shouting into the void and having people say oh maybe if you just do one more thing we'll consider listening to you and then not fucking listening to me.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:51 am

I see no reason to ++effort when I think the ++effort is just going to result in you being like oh well thats cool anyway lets flip psyche.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:54 am

In post 4062, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 4060, Thestatusquo wrote: I have been posting for like 100 pages now on shirou being scum and I don't really feel like boiling it down into bullet points which I understand is crap because that's what I just asked you to do but I am extremely tired of shouting into the void and having people say oh maybe if you just do one more thing we'll consider listening to you and then not fucking listening to me.
Have you considered if maybe you're just wrong.

I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again but this is now the third or fourth time you've posted some variation of this rejoinder to me and its completely worthless. Explain why I'm wrong or shut the fuck up dude.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:54 am

In post 4064, Save The Dragons wrote: like how many times have i voted with you even for just a moment this game

Votes mean nothing when you switch back immediately. You get no gold star.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:02 am

People who act like those who are making probabilistic statements think they can't be wrong are just incredibly obnoxious. Like...could I be wrong? Of course? We're playing a probabilistic game my guy. Will I be deeply upset if I'm wrong? No, I'll move on with my life because we're playing a probabilistic game, my guy.

Does the (always there) possibility of me being wrong have any bearing on what I think the probabilities are? No. What an asinine worthless comment, my guy.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:04 am

Also the incredible tone deaf claim that a lot of people disagreeing with you means you're more likely to be wrong in a game of mafia, and one where we're now limmed 2 town so the percentage of mafia is incredibly high, is just such a hilariously bad argument.

Like, not a serious statement made by a serious person.

In fact, generally people are more likely to disagree with you when you're pushing scum and looking for those people disagreeing with you when you are correct is a huge part of what scum hunting is my guy.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:06 am

But go off, continue making absolutely zero contributions to this game and skating by because you've managed to be kept out of the lim lime light.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:06 am

My kingdom to lim shirou or norwee over psyche.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:27 am

In post 4073, Save The Dragons wrote: why can't the same be said about psyche

I am literally the only person pushing back against psyche. Almost every other person who has talked about him besides cakez has expressed at least lukewarm willingness to lim him.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:28 am

In post 4081, Save The Dragons wrote: there's plenty of resistance to psyche

i think i was swayable but shea decided not to for some reason

you were never really swayable.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:29 am

In post 4088, Save The Dragons wrote: you don't know

if you were you'd put in some effort yourself. It's all there, just read it.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:30 am

In post 4089, Lazy Shirou wrote: i don't think there's as much resistance as me as there is people waffling on psyche and dunno how it looks to you but from my pov this does feel a bit like a scum wagon yeah

it's not look that great tomorrow voting me here, and if it happens that psyche is indeed scum ( i feel like it's a bit of a coinflip but the best i've tbh) and is limmed next, then it would look even worse two days from now

at least that's how i'm seeing the current gamestate

this sure is a post I've seen scum make many times before.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:31 am

In post 4092, Save The Dragons wrote: shea there's fucking blood on my hands and you're complaining about effort of making 5 bullet points for points you don't have to think up but have already made in the thread somewhere. but you fight with norwee instead, my guy and tell me i'm not swayable

im willing to do anything and listen to anyone to get a red flip

then why havent you been listening to me before? Why are you still voting psyche when I keep saying I think he's town? Why do you vote with me for 3 seconds and then flip right back over to my town read, being pushed by my scum reads and be like oh don't worry charlie I'm not gunna pull the football back this time.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:32 am

I know you have. Which is part of why I don't believe you that you were swayable.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:34 am

I'm not trying to do anything, I'm screaming into the void because I am so fucking frustrated by this game.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:35 am

you're not making arguments either, you're just doing pop psychology bullshit and throwing shade.

Also you just TMId alisae's alignment but you've been doing that basically all of today so its nothing new.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:02 am

Nah I'm challenging.

Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:00 pm

Of course you do.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:53 am

In what way does me being scum remotely fit into your worldview

Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:39 am

In post 4192, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Isn't provably randomness a big no no

another scintillating and reasonable contribution designed to find scum.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:07 am

In post 4206, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 4198, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 4192, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Isn't provably randomness a big no no
another scintillating and reasonable contribution designed to find scum.
If you got nothing better to say, maybe don’t say anything at all.

Are you referring to yourself or me here? Because if you mean me I've said plenty about what I think about this game.

You're the one who has said basically nothing at all.

So its fitting if you're talking about yourself I guess but I can't wait to lim you.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:09 am

Literally your biggest contribution to this game in days is responding to me twice with the extremely valuable contributions of

"Hey what if ur wrong tho lmao"

and uselessly asking if non-provable randomness is bad because its provable randomness.

And its not like you did anything much before that.

So I think its pretty game relevant to ask you to actually do anything at all this game.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:11 am

I don't agree with that.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:12 am

I don't think it was an attempt at mocking me I think it was a petulant attempt at discrediting me.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:14 am

I dont think anything norwee has done this game is effective at anything so I'm not super interested in giving him credit for being some master manipulator here.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:15 am

Like honestly this game is even worse for him if he's town. He's done LITERAL nothing. So why do I have to consider a world where he's playing well in this one specific instance when he's not playing well in literally any other way?

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:16 am

It's a reasonable point from you though. I like that you thought it.

I'll think about it, feel pretty doubtful it outweighs everything I've seen from shirou so far.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:17 am

The stubborn insistent town reads on norwee and alisae when I was heavily scum reading both of them is a big part of why I am extremely skeptical of shirou's slot.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:23 am

I agree with the latter, but it was a complete unwillingness to work with me on the read and a complete shut down of my thoughts in favor of some soul read that really rubbed me the wrong way there.

And I'm not sure you're right. We had a conversation about him sending a message to me about the reasons he's town reading norwee extremely recently. He once again refused to meet me half way because he said he thought I was scum. A thing you've also said you didn't think was true when you were talking about dead sheeping him.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:34 am

I agree with that, I think.

If someone wants to switch to norwee I would be there immediately.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:41 am

I only have 350 bizness bucks

Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:09 am

Is literally anyone opposed to switching the elim and getting norwee?

Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:55 am

In post 4249, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 4246, Thestatusquo wrote: Is literally anyone opposed to switching the elim and getting norwee?
i want to kill cakes first

if cakes flips scum i am happy to help you with norwe

if cakes flips town i am going to put on some clown makeup and have a little joker moment

This seems like a pretty weird take, you've multiple times said you don't think norwee is town and multiple times said he's open wolfing, so why would it be important to you to take out one scum read over the other when it seems like the difference between them is marginal at best?

Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:14 am

That does not square with how you've been treating the slot at all.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:05 am

In post 4259, NorwegianboyEE wrote: Game feels so dead right now.
I'd be interested in seeing where this goes.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:18 pm

This swap is a scum claim.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:20 pm

Literally just not going to vote. Fuck all of this.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:21 pm

Reported.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:23 pm

I'm not going to vote until norwee goes home

Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:31 pm

tbone I stg if you dont swap norwee in I will be malding.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:33 pm

how does he know about various cliques "butting heads" without reading the thread is an interesting question.

Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:41 pm

In post 4370, Dunnstral wrote: So the implication is that I'm mafia and I've read more of the thread than I let on, and am pretending to not have read it.

Okay... why would I do that?

the implication is that you have a scum PT and just slipped up by showing more knowledge of the game than you should have.

I guess a more reasonable explanation is you have your team PT so its not like a smoking gun or anything.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:19 pm

Dear gamma and dear emerald.

If you let me live I will swap in norwee with the money. I'll keep whichever one of cakez or psyche that you want.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:20 pm

Meant to be dear gamma and dear pooky.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:48 pm

In post 4439, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 4425, Thestatusquo wrote: Dear gamma and dear emerald.

If you let me live I will swap in norwee with the money. I'll keep whichever one of cakez or psyche that you want.
id rather just shoot you and swap norwee in myself if thats what everyone wants to do

No dice, soldier.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:49 pm

In post 4443, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 3751, Firebringer wrote:
Lazer Tag
The business company has a new prototype lazer weapon we wish to test. Perfect opportunity to have our employees run field testing for it. Let us know how they handle! And let the Buisness work guide your aim

The objective of this game is for your team to be last team standing

Each player is given a prototype Business Company lazer gun.

During each round players privately submit by pm to the mod who they wish to shoot during the round.

All shots will always succeed.

If a player is shot their shot will still count in that round. I.E you will not fail to shoot someone because you have been shot.

If a player is dead they cannot shoot in the next round.

Player deaths are public but who shot who is not.

These deaths are for this event only. Buisness company has good healthcare and will cure anyone shot during trial testing.

Game will end after four rounds if no team has reached a win condition

If no team has reached a win condition or all players are dead One member from scum team will receive the prize

Rounds will last 24 hours

Rewards:

Last Team Standing:
700 Currency Each Team Member

No Win Condition/Draw:
500 Currency to one player on the scum team.

im gonna submit to firebringer that im shooting tsq - this means it should be that TSQ gets shot and me/gamma get 700 each

i suggest to TSQ/Gamma that they dont shoot anyone.

if TSQ shoots gamma and gamma shoots me or tsq shoots me and gamma shoots herself then like i guess no1 survives and thats bad so i hope niether of them do that.

If you don't agree to my plan I'm shooting you.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:51 pm

Just once I'd like to have agency in this fucking game pooky. Can you fucking give me that?

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:52 pm

Keep going bud. My report finger doesn't get tired.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:59 pm

In post 4452, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: i dont see any difference between me swapping norwee in and you swapping norwee in

If you think I'm town there's no reason you wouldn't let me do it.

Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:10 pm

In post 4463, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 4461, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 4452, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: i dont see any difference between me swapping norwee in and you swapping norwee in
If you think I'm town there's no reason you wouldn't let me do it.
do you think im going to get the money and then not swap norwee in

Same question back at you

Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:38 pm

In post 4473, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote: we both want the same thing to swap norwee in

i can make sure i get the money by shooting you and you holstering and then using that money to swap norwee in

if instead we did your plan and you shot me and i shot gamma and then gamma shoots you, nobody would get the money and then nobody would have money to swap norwee in

In that world gamma is scum claiming so i think I'll take it.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:18 am

Because shirou is scum with norwee and psyche is town.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:21 pm

VOTE: Norwee

Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm

In post 4641, Lazy Shirou wrote: If Norwe is town shea/tbone scum equity rises as well I think

P-edit: you were mad?

If norwee is scum I'm coming for your ass.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:00 pm

In post 4650, Lazy Shirou wrote:
In post 4648, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 4641, Lazy Shirou wrote: If Norwe is town shea/tbone scum equity rises as well I think

P-edit: you were mad?
If norwee is scum I'm coming for your ass.
And if he flips town?

If he flips town your position on defending him despite him not doing a single town thing all game gets even more interesting.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:00 pm

i.e. I think you're scum either way, which is why I was only interested in going after norwee after it became completely clear I wasn't getting you.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:05 pm

Yeah you're scum

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:08 pm

this is kind of funny, you know damn well that being right on reads is null at best. The fact that you then want to lead the game based off being right on information you would have if you were scum despite there being no reason for you to believe it if you are town is hilarious, because I know you know this full well.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:08 pm

Its a very convenient argument for you to make, and I know you know mafia better than to make it as town.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:11 pm

Shirou's attempt to position himself on this is deeply concerning considering the position town will be in tomorrow if norwee somehow IS town.

And its hilarious because his progression on norwee is absolute garbage.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:11 pm

Wait an additional swap?

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:13 pm

In post 4668, Lazy Shirou wrote: It's not about being right necessarily, it's about me not getting a single flip I really wanted in this game.

Norwe may be scum but he may also not, I believe a lot more on psyche though and if you're town frustrated you couldn't kill your suspects, imagine me for a hot second.

Luckily I don't have to because you're not town.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:14 pm

Reverting to a emotional argument "Imagine me I'm just like you" when you can't respond to my logical argument that your claim that somehow you would be more likely to be town if norwee flips town is a manipulation tactic bruh.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:15 pm

there is zero reason you could not have played exactly this was as scum with norwee as town and you damn well know it.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:24 pm

In post 4677, Lazy Shirou wrote:
In post 4674, T-Bone wrote:
In post 4652, Lazy Shirou wrote: The sheer speed of this wagon is just like titus

Individually I think norwe can be scum but there's 0 resistance to doing him today rather than psyche right now
You're resisting

Gottem
Yeah tbone/shea have been right about everything, definitely

Idk norwee alignment but I know my own and if you're both town it's gonna be funny to see the excuses in postgame

Another emotional fallacious argument because you can't logically attack my argument that you could have played exactly like this if you were scum and norwee town.

Town doesn't argue like this, dude. Town doesn't have to tear down logical arguments by ignoring them and making appeals to emotion and grandstands instead.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:52 pm

challenge Team Hyperpost Meta

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:54 pm

I think you just did.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:57 pm

Shirou I really hope you're scum because if you're town I'm going to be legitimately upset at how you basically didnt listen to a single word I said this game.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:01 pm

I see no reason to rush this. I want a full accounting of the supposed reasons shirou was townreading norwee that he claimed to have but would be a "waste of money" to send me via message.

In post 3207, Lazy Shirou wrote:
In post 3199, Thestatusquo wrote: and if you're doing something like that feel free to correct me
corrected you stand then, this is just from my most recently finished town game white flag:

In post 2165, Toto wrote: Also, Shurro you can stick your poe list up your ass afaic. Just a another reminder I want norwee town explanation. Please explain like im 5. Please point specific posts I should be townreading with some rationale. Anime gifs not allowed.

In post 2247, Toto wrote: If all the reason you have to town read norwee is the reaction to your stun then I dont really think the way they reacted is in any way hard to fake as scum. So you are either confbiased or tmid, or you and norwee are partners. Which is my favorite theory.

You still need to explain why you were hard town reading them BEFORE the stunt, since as you have explained it was always part of the plan.

What gave you the confidence to pull that. I asked this before and you responded with something equivalent to “trust me bro”.

Like I don’t get the mindset.
Maybe you just have an inflated ego and are confbiased I just don’t see how it works other wise.

In post 2254, Shirou wrote: I want to reply on this before going into Gimli/Furtive.

I probably am kinda "confbiased" by this point because I've a good history of knowing more or less how to read Norwee. Could I get it wrong eventually? Can I be wrong right now? YES
. But mafia is a guessing game and right now all that I know about him points to him being town in this game.

It's true I'm trying to "hide" a bit some of the reasons and not going for ultra breakdown of every little thing I think is from his town meta/playstyle, I don't want to reveal everything about how I read him because then he could fake it all next time, I don't want that because it's pleasant to feel like you've a friend that you can read, it makes the game more fun when I feel at ease trusting him because I trust my methods on reading him so far.

I'll admit, in fact, that although I'm advocating quite a bit for town!Norwee here, he hasn't
been very
townie outside of his reaction to my push, but I still think the way he reacted to the push isn't from scum!him and there's some good posts like I pointed out there and here in his ISO. You can disagree, that's fine Toto, maybe I'm wrong
, but I've no choice but to trust my guns because they've kinda worked so far with him. I'm pushing it confidently because I believe preventing a miselimination on him is very positive for our odds of winning this game and that's it.

I've not been too wrong on him so far (there's a game I suspected him but never confident enough to lim him because there was always "scummier" slots in my vision), but this could be it. My next game could be it. I don't feel like I've properly "failed" on him yet by completely inversely reading his alignment but I could. I'm not infallible.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong? I don't think I'm, but I could be.

One of the best town players in this site that destroyed scum teams in D1 has his left post in the site as a pun that in the very end, he thinks there's quite a bit of luck
involved in mafia. I agree there's definitely games that even people that know me probably would suspect me because I was playing a bit differently for whatever reason. Mafia is hard, we can only often guess.

I'm guessing Norwee is town here. I've historically good guesses on him I believe. I could still be wrong though I guess.

That's it Toto.

It's hard to be sure of anything in this game but I try to push to the best of my abilities what I think is the correct answer.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:03 pm

In post 4708, Lazy Shirou wrote: I know no one will prob buy it today but the reason pooky was killed rather than shea is simple:

Pooky was relatively amenable to me recently. I believe this all has been a frame attempt by shea and it's gonna be clear after my flip.

Shea is probably scum.

You're right dude, I, at what is almost elo, while under no pressure whatsoever, decided to fight two different elims to make sure it went on to my scum buddy.

Like is this a serious argument or is your wolf skin showing?

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:04 pm

Why would you if you think I'm scum?

Seems like you're trying to play both sides of the push me pocket me line right now and I'm not buying what you're selling.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:05 pm

I asked that question before you made the absurd argument that this makes me likely to be scum which I know for certain is an argument that would never come out of town you's mouth.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:06 pm

Because you fucking killed him my guy so you could make this argument.

If someone is trying to frame you in particular they sure are committed to it, what with how you also got the money in the first mini-game despite people saying they didn't vote for you.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:07 pm

People talking about the night kill like this as if it somehow is a conclusive proof are almost always scum.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:09 pm

Who is more likely to kill pooky? The person who has been in lock step with him all game and who worked with him on the last challenge to get this elim who, in this theoretical world where I am scum has him completely pocketed, or the person who has been fighting with him for thread control the whole game who coincidentally was trying to use that thread control to protect scum with fucking no reasoning whatsoever?

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:10 pm

Pooky being in this game would be incredibly beneficial to me as scum, so while its possible I killed him despite that, your immediately jumping to that conclusion as an attempt to attack me and protect your own skin when you're under pressure is not a town mindset at all.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:11 pm

In post 4725, Lazy Shirou wrote:
In post 4722, Thestatusquo wrote: Because you fucking killed him my guy so you could make this argument.

If someone is trying to frame you in particular they sure are committed to it, what with how you also got the money in the first mini-game despite people saying they didn't vote for you.
This is a fair point from YOUR POV if town shea

I understand no one believing me today, but it will be clear later that someone is trying to frame me, you just were the first person to come to mind

Oh I see now when I kicked your ass to saturday on this ridiculous argument "Shea is likely scum" has now become "You were just the first person to come to mind."

Bulllllll fucking shit, dude.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:12 pm

I'm not voting until you do that. I can't wait.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:23 pm

I just don't think Alisae's rep out comes from scum. I know it sucks that this is my biggest argument for town alisae but I feel like the game state was pretty favorable to scum when alisae repped out so I have a hard time seeing that emotional reaction coming from scum.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:27 pm

I feel like its rare from weak scum, I don't think Shirou is weak scum.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:30 pm

Of course I'm not certain, but that was my read. Do you disagree?

Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:00 pm

In post 4740, Lazy Shirou wrote:
In post 4736, Thestatusquo wrote: I feel like its rare from weak scum, I don't think Shirou is weak scum.
And I was still "caught" this easily shea?

This is a disingenuous argument, because you clearly didn't intend for things to go this way in the world where you get caught. Once again this is an emotional argument structured not logically but in order to make me feel emotionally like I'm not giving you enough "credit."

You clearly disagree that I should scum read you and have the whole game.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:04 pm

it feels a little bit like a caught for the wrong reasons kind of deal, like clearly in both the world where you're town and the world where you're scum you don't feel 'caught' at all, you feel like things went the wrong way despite what you were trying to do, which is not a mark of skill necessarily, another thing I think you know pretty well. Good scum get "caught" all the time.

Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:13 pm

Who is your best guess for the remaining team? I want to dig into the shirou norwee associatives from early on because I remember it being just this lock town read for no reason that then towards the end of today kind of softened into a "I don't know if norwee is scum or not he could be but PSYCHE is DEFINITELY scum" which was a pretty stark progression but I need to go back and actually put concrete quotes to the words.

Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:58 pm

I also don't have shirou's pc.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:08 am

In post 4792, Lazy Shirou wrote: i'm starting to write my previous "town case" on norwee that existed on my mind but i just wanted again to say something that you may rightfully accuse of being WIFOM given you don't know my alignment yet, but from my POV is something important to note for later:

if i was scum, out of Pooky/Shea/Tbone the correct daykill would be shea or tbone that were much less amenable towards me overall if you don't take into account the Shirou vs Pooky thing in the first pages of the game, so although theoretically it could be a WIFOM attempt from scum!me from your povs, i know that to be wrong and know that if shea/tbone are town that means there's scum in the "shadows" trying to kill me for awhile now.

i think pooky dying is a bit weird for another reason though, if the plan really was to mislim me as it looks like by this point to me, even though pooky was more amenable he was still likely to vote me today. Why not kill enchant instead that is also a strong townread for most? i think after my flip confirming this analysis to come from town, you may want to take a closer look at enchant and maybe don't let him reach endgame...?

The issue isn't that it's Wifom (although it is because you're clearly using it as an argument and did before anyone else said anything about it)

The issue is that there are many reasons to kill people. If you're scum and see me as a potential miselim which you clearly did because you immediately attacked me and have been shading me all game, there's no way you kill me. Pooky was widely town read and is not a target for you to miselim and i don't think it's fair to say you automatically kill someone just because they are suspecting you, especially because, noting the votes, there's tons of pressure on you regardless of if I'm alive or not so that doesn't seem like a real argument to me. Maybe if killing me released all pressure on you or at least a significant amount you could argue that but it's not even clear to me that killing me actually leads to that much more favorable of a game state for scum shirou. And the claim that absolutely one hundred percent i would be the kill reads as completely disingenuous because of that.

This is all if we just assume that pooky is town reading you which it wasn't even clear to me that he was.

So yeah this is a load of wifom-garbage on top of just not like making that much sense otherwise.

The fact that you then immediately used it to say that i was "likely scum" right after the kill went through and then have completely dropped that argument when i showed how silly it was saying "you're just the first person who came to mind" makes me think it's much more likely you killed pooky for the express purpose of this narrative.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:09 am

If anything i think it goes the other way. In a town shirou world scum would be likely to kill me because it is an attempt to frame you.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:16 am

This is just another example in my mind of you approaching a situation where there's lots of complicated possibilities and refusing to acknowledge or consider any of them but the ones that most benefit you if you're scum. You're pushing narratives with way more certainty than you would have as town while at the same time making comments about how little confidence you have in your town game right now. It doesn't make any sense.

The last example was claiming that you should be given control if norwee flipped town despite you knowing full well that you absolutely could and would play exactly like this as scum with knowledge of norwees alignment and the way you played around norwees slot is not the way someone who actually was uninformed would play. But you acted as if a norwee town flip would clear you instead which is something you should know isn't true.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:49 am

Challenge hyperpost

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:50 am

I would like to flip alisae slot i think.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:22 pm

In post 4814, Enchant wrote: I doubt Shirou and Alisae are aligned.

But when i even was right?

Why? I really disagree i think their play looked incredibly aligned but i want to hear why you think otherwise

Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:24 pm

I also think Dunn has done exactly nothing and alisaes play was very scummy on face.

Literally the only point i have in favor of a town read in my mind is the replace out.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:59 pm

I could be wrong about Ali. I think i was a bit impulsive because of how instantaneous the challenge was last time. I have no problem switching it myself to someone else if that's where people decide they want to go. Off the top of my head though i can't think of a single townie opinion Ali had this game, the fight between alisae and shirou felt incredibly staged to me and i don't think Dunn has done a single thing since replacing in.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:07 pm

I want to go back and look at the wagons, I'm not ruling out the possibility that psyche was a designated bus, but i want to go through exactly what the votes were because it feels pretty likely to me he's town.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:49 pm

That post coming from shirou about the psyche wagon really doesn't feel like it comes from s-s to me.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:22 pm

In post 4832, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 4830, Dunnstral wrote: You guys want me to go over the team pt?
I'll just go ahead and do so, this will be done in an hour or two

No, I want you to give thoughts on this game that you've theoretically been playing.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:25 pm

In post 4361, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 4357, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 4356, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 4302, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Switch "Team Hyperpost Meta" with "Team Not Cheaters"

Are you going to post actual content ever?
I don't plan to read the entire game. Mostly because it looks miserable and seems to be Alisae's clique and TSQ's clique butting heads with each other and I'm just not interested in wading through that stuff. I've read what I feel is important to determine what I should be pushing for.

So lets return to this, then. I remember at the time suggesting that it could be a slip because you wouldn't know about this if you didnt read the game, and then I reasoned that there was a more reasonable explanation which was that you had a PT with shirou which would have been a quick and easy read and would get you caught up on those things quickly.

But it now seems like you have really neither read nor posted in this extremely long and not quick to read PT so I want to revisit this question of how you knew most of the thread was "me and alisae + cliques butting heads with each other"

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:27 pm

That does not answer that question.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:30 pm

Ok, I don't feel particularly convinced by that, if you could outline some of the posts that happened that you read after you replaced in that led you to that conclusion that would be great.

But while I have you here, can I get a read list, can I get some in depth town and scum reads with reasoning? I remember you posting that you thought shirou was town with no explanation while the scum team was trying to ram psyche through so could you expand on that please.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:31 pm

If you want to do that it could be helpful for figuring stuff out so I don't want to discourage it exactly, but I want to be very clear: I intend to flip your slot so you might want to concentrate on giving me any reason to think you're town outside of the circumstances of alisae's replace out first if you don't want that to happen.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:33 pm

Whats your solve right now gamma?

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:37 pm

I feel pretty strongly these people are town:
sheepsaysmeep
T-Bone
Enchant
Psyche

I feel some level of good about
Save The Dragons
Gamma Emerald

I think the last two scum are:
SirCakez
Dunnstral

I need to go back and read how people interacted with the various psyche and shirou/norwee wagons to really sort of crystalize these for me, but I don't really see a lot of good options other then Alisae being scum tbh. I suppose I probably have too much confidence on psyche and enchant because I really am just guessing with enchants alignment ever and I am reading a lot into the psyche shirou dueling wagons thing when in fact they could have just both been scum wagons, but I guess I don't think that's the most likely.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:41 pm

I can't answer that without looking at the exact circumstances which I'm not going to do atm.

Could you answer my questions in 4844

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:46 pm

In post 4854, Dunnstral wrote: 4849

Yes you sure did answer one question in that post and ignored the rest of it.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:52 pm

That is 2 days and 2 scum flips ago

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:52 pm

*5 days

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:53 pm

And includes no reasons whatsoever. This really isn't hard, just answer the question. Why are you so invested in trying to make it seem like I'm being unreasonable here by posting things trying to make it seem like you've already answered me when you haven't.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:55 pm

You also conveniently didn't include this one:

In post 4176, Dunnstral wrote: I think that Lazy Shirou is town and would prefer to not eliminate there.

Not sure about Psyche but that is the only real option for me.

which is interesting because it was a major part of my questions that you have now ignored for a third time.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:58 pm

We could also go into how your town reads are the two easiest town reads in the game and a guy who has already flipped green.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:19 pm

Fourth time. I'm not asking for in depth post hoc reads, I am simply asking for REASONS. And an explanation IN PARTICULAR of the shirou read. Once again you are trying to act like I'm being unreasonable here and I am not. I am asking for very baseline explanations of why you think the things you say you thought. That should not require in depth contemplation or reading of any additional material.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:26 pm

so I have a scum tell I like called the deliberately weak argument where in an argument you make a list of several different points and one of them is deliberately weak and invariably scum will go for the weak argument and absolutely obliterate it and ignore or only cursorily mention your other points because they are arguing not to find understanding or to help you find understanding but to score points. It's a fundamental difference in how scum and town arguments manifest themselves in terms of motivation.

(you can see me catch BBT as scum with it here viewtopic.php?p=13522905#p13522905)

This isn't a DWA right now because nothing I'm saying is intentionally vague or weak or anything, but dunn sure is taking the path of least resistance and answering the very lowest hanging fruit of anything I say or ask, so the whole last two pages are basically the embodiment of DWA in my mind.

Look at my posts and my questions, and then look at which parts of them he chooses to answer and which parts he manages to completely ignore, even if the thing he's answering is not even remotely the main thing I'm asking about.

In post 4862, Thestatusquo wrote: You also conveniently didn't include this one:

In post 4176, Dunnstral wrote: I think that Lazy Shirou is town and would prefer to not eliminate there.

Not sure about Psyche but that is the only real option for me.
which is interesting because it was a major part of my questions that you have now ignored for a third time.

In post 4863, Thestatusquo wrote: We could also go into how your town reads are the two easiest town reads in the game and a guy who has already flipped green.

In post 4864, Dunnstral wrote: You are certainly free to, but I'm not very interested in assigning difficulties to my reads or being contrarian for the sake of it

ok my guy but you went right for the knock out punch on the least important and easily answered part of my question and for the third time ignored the question itself.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:32 pm

I don't know how anyone could look at sheeps play around the psyche-shirou-norwee wagons and think it comes from a partner.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:34 pm

I think sheep is a very easy and convenient slot for scum to attack and try to put in the poe because he's not active and hasnt done a whole lot but the whole interplay between sheep and those wagons just feels incredibly uninformed to me.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:09 pm

230 - Alisae: Complains about TSQ scumreading Alisae, Shirou, and Norwee

239 - Alisae: Starts talking about 230 again and says TSQ has bad reads

:thinking emoji:

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:14 pm

I'm talking about sheeps positions re: the wagons not necessarily direct associatives. There's not a ton of associatives for anyone with sheep or haschel simply because they weren't around very much, and I'm just going off of memory here but I'm pretty sure every action sheep took towards those wagons was the one that made it more likely for scum to be eliminated. I will go back and double check my memory on that at some point but I recall him being strongly pro limming norwee and strongly pro limming shirou and not that interested in limming psyche pretty much the whole way when it would have been very convenient and probably extremely easy to get away with voting on psyche.

His actions towards my slot felt pretty unaligned with shirou too because from my perspective shirou was pretty set on me as a miselim this game and sheep seemed not even remotely interested in that at any point.

There is one thing that pinged me from haschel in our PT at the very start of the game that felt vaguely pocket-y where he essentially said "I think you might be on to something with norwee and I agree with putting pressure there" which was kind of weird just because of the way he phrased it and how little he talked about basically anything else in the game.

These are my thoughts on sheep slot more fleshed out. I also feel like he's been kind of solvy in his posts, and makes points that seem kind of bizarre to say if he were scum.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:18 pm

I guess what I'm saying is sheep could make sense in a world where psyche is scum and both the shirou and psyche wagons were on scum but not really in a world where psyche is town.

I also think that if psyche and shirou were both scum and you were town we would have seen a lot more pressure on your slot that day and we didn't really see that materialize at all. So I don't think its particularly likely that psyche is scum unless you are also scum.

So I find it hard to see a world where sheep fits into any scum teams that make sense to me.

pedit: its hard for me to express exactly why it pinged me because it was a phrasing and tone thing and I can't directly quote it.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:26 pm

Also like...if that post about the PT is faked its a master class of effort that would require precise details about when and where things were happening in the main thread and I just don't think that's a thing that is ever going to happen here.

And the corollary to that is: If its not faked, I see very little reason that Alisae and Shirou would have a PT like that in a world where they're scum buddies. There's like literally no world. Why put in that effort?

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:31 pm

In post 4267, NorwegianboyEE wrote: TSQ: Have i reiterated how scum Norwee is in this game of mafia?

scoreboard, jackass.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:32 pm

In post 4266, NorwegianboyEE wrote: TSQ: Lol Norwee is doing nothing:

TSQ: Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum Norwee is scum

this is apropos of nothing but I am enjoying it.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:38 pm

Looking at these wagons after and right before the norwee swap the player that kind of feels the worst to me here is StD.

He was frequently throwing shade at shirou and was responding to me saying he was scummy by saying that he agrees but needs more information and I believe even voted him once or twice extremely briefly in response to me being particularly insistent but never voted him in a high leverage situation where he actually had any chance of going home. He kept insisting that psyche was too scummy but the insistence on psyche specifically is kind of weird when he wasn't getting the lim he wanted. He seemed like he was in the mindset of we need flips but those flips can't be shirou because we need flips to read shirou because I'm not sure about him which is kind of a weird sort of mental gymnastics. And the reach outs to me and the brief votes which he then even mentioned as "how many times have I voted your way this game" feel kind of pockety as well.

He did challenge shirou after me but that theoretically could be a bus after the norwee bus to try to deep wolf but it is also a point against STD scum.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:39 pm

Also it feels like StD has done basically nothing recently in terms of an actual solve which is weird because with two scum flips in a row I'd expect town to be more energized not less.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:53 pm

In post 3891, Psyche wrote:
In post 3744, NorwegianboyEE wrote: I don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push so my current take is that either Psyche is killed or teams get switched to something like idunoooo Haschel?
could norwegianboye elaborate for the class why they "don't really believe in Psyche's Alisae push" or is an air of mystery just that desperately needed for ventilating the circus vehicle

Sheep is just another early-Psyche at this point. Barely doing fuckall.
also guy literally just got here and you're already lining him up for not having anything yet sweet jesus

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:56 pm

In post 4465, NorwegianboyEE wrote: 3 people in the game have suggested i should be limmed.
3 people. 2 of those 3 strongly arguing.

T-Bone, Gamma, TSQ.

Psyche or Cakez could still be an wagon even with a swap. I’m not too worried.

was this post actually meant for the scum PT? I didn't clock it at the time but this post definitely feels like it was meant for the scum PT lol.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:57 pm

Like actually tho???? Am I crazy?????

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:00 pm

I'm galaxy braining here but like...this post is apropos of nothing, i.e. not part of an ongoing conversation norwee was having in the thread, using really weird language and tone for a scum player addressing town and like...what.

It kind of reads like he's arguing with a scum buddy to not bus him.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:03 pm

I can't stress enough how much this post doesn't make any sense to me in the context of the other posts norwee was making in the thread at the time.

It's possibly because its 4 am and I am in rabid gremlin mode right now but uhhhh. I think I've convinced myself that this post was intended for the scum PT and spews cakez and psyche town.

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:04 pm

If that is the case there are two scum in

sheepsaysmeep
Save The Dragons
Enchant

Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:12 pm

Reading the posts at the time from StD:

In post 4400, Save The Dragons wrote: if norwee is town then cakez and psyche are both good targets

if norwee is scum he probably just whisked his partner away from danger

but did he really need to do that? since it wasn't necessary, did norwee just go rogue or is he just town here?

or did he pre-emptively prevent people from moving to shirou by whisking him away

In post 4404, Save The Dragons wrote: if norwee is scum, why did he rescue scum!shirou who wasn't in danger

therefore, is norwee actually town here?

In post 4407, Save The Dragons wrote: yes i don't really like that either

i don't like how stale his reads have been

he hasn't talked in the PT which tells me he still scumreads me to an extent

this progression is extremely bad associative-wise.

I think that this was std talking about the possibility of norwee getting swapped in and whether he would have to bus in the PT and norwee mistakenly responding in the main thread. I'm like...completely convinced.

I'll see if I'm still completely convinced in the morning.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:05 am

Is really no one going to talk about THE POST TM.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:49 am

Why is everyone just ignoring me on the last page. I legitimately think I found something huge.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:50 am

In post 4902, Save The Dragons wrote: i debated whether norwee was town but ultimately came to a conclusion he was scum, that should be pretty clear

the only reason i wasn't on shirou was because on the off chance he was town i wanted final reads to look at but otherwise i was voting there too

What are your thoughts for the last two scum then?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:52 am

In post 4911, Save The Dragons wrote: how many times has anyone ever actually posted in the main thread when they meant to post in the scum thread

Ok but read that post. Who is he talking to? What conversation is he participating in? What is that post trying to accomplish if its meant for the main thread?

It doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:53 am

Read it in context of the thread at the time and tell me with a straight face it was meant for the main thread.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:54 am

In post 4912, Save The Dragons wrote:
In post 4910, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 4902, Save The Dragons wrote: i debated whether norwee was town but ultimately came to a conclusion he was scum, that should be pretty clear

the only reason i wasn't on shirou was because on the off chance he was town i wanted final reads to look at but otherwise i was voting there too
What are your thoughts for the last two scum then?
psyche and deep wolf (probably gamma/t-bone)

So you think shirou and psyche were likely dueling scum wagons? Can you explain how that makes sense in the context of there never really being any pressure on alisae?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:55 am

In post 4915, Save The Dragons wrote: i mean it wasn't in response to me im not in the scum thread and it wasn't meant for the wolfpack thread

Strip the part of my conjecture about who he's talking to out of it and just read the post with the context of norwee trying to talk *someone* out of bussing him.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:55 am

I legitimately feel like thats the only way that post makes sense.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:56 am

In post 4918, Save The Dragons wrote: shirou was bussing psyche psyche was intended to die

I suppose I could buy that you think that given shirou's angry comments about someone not "doing their job."

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:57 am

But if psyche was the intended bus, the person pushing him the most heavily, who was most unwilling to move off him and most unwilling to consider other possibilities besides shirou was you.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 8:59 am

In post 4921, Save The Dragons wrote: yeah i think it's meant for the main thread

So same questions then: Who was he talking to? What is this post trying to say?

To me it looks like its telling someone I am not worried if they swap me in because there's still two viable miselims and the pressure on me isn't that high.

So why would he be posting that in the main thread? Who was he directing it at? What conversation was it part of? What was his goal?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:01 am

I also want people to comment on Dunns post and my thoughts which can be summed up with the following syllogism points

1) That post is not fake. It is too detailed and too correctly aligned with what was happening in the actual thread.
2 There is no reason for Alisae and Shirou to have a PT that looks like that if they're scum-scum
3) Therefore dunn is town.

PEDIT: I don't you believe thats what that post says. It's just not what it says.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:03 am

Saying he's confident he won't be swapped in doesn't make any sense in the context of all three people who were live to get the money saying they were going to swap him in.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:04 am

He says he's not worried, yes. But pretty clearly he is not saying he is not worried he will be swapped in because that was basically guaranteed.

He's clearly saying he's not worried hes going to be limmed because there are only 3 people suspecting him and there are two viable miseliminations.

Why would he say that?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:04 am

In post 4926, Save The Dragons wrote: he's trying to talk to the game

he's trying to say he's confident he won't be swapped in so he doesn't have to give a shit

You're the one who said you thought he was saying he was confident he won't be swapped.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:05 am

Like 5 seconds ago. Do you remember 5 seconds ago?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:10 am

That seems like a pretty over the top reaction when I'm just one crazy person here with no one agreeing with me.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:12 am

Think you're actually frequently pretty understated, yeah.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:16 am

probably not worth, I don't believe in self meta and my claim isn't that you're never over the top.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:19 am

Read my posts starting from here:

viewtopic.php?p=13638052#p13638052

Sun Feb 05, 2023 9:28 am

You think its possible that norwee makes that post to make it look like a scum slip, never mentions it, with the idea that someone might go back and find it and realize that it was a "slip" and point it out as a red herring?

Brother I thought I was the crazy one here. No fucking way.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:03 am

Everyone is saying I'm town. I've been right on two flips in a row, and no still no one is listening to me. Cakez what do you think about my argument that sheep is town?

PEDIT: Haven't read all of tbones wall but I was on shirou before you iirc.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:07 am

In post 4882, Thestatusquo wrote: I'm talking about sheeps positions re: the wagons not necessarily direct associatives. There's not a ton of associatives for anyone with sheep or haschel simply because they weren't around very much, and I'm just going off of memory here but I'm pretty sure every action sheep took towards those wagons was the one that made it more likely for scum to be eliminated. I will go back and double check my memory on that at some point but I recall him being strongly pro limming norwee and strongly pro limming shirou and not that interested in limming psyche pretty much the whole way when it would have been very convenient and probably extremely easy to get away with voting on psyche.

His actions towards my slot felt pretty unaligned with shirou too because from my perspective shirou was pretty set on me as a miselim this game and sheep seemed not even remotely interested in that at any point.

There is one thing that pinged me from haschel in our PT at the very start of the game that felt vaguely pocket-y where he essentially said "I think you might be on to something with norwee and I agree with putting pressure there" which was kind of weird just because of the way he phrased it and how little he talked about basically anything else in the game.

These are my thoughts on sheep slot more fleshed out. I also feel like he's been kind of solvy in his posts, and makes points that seem kind of bizarre to say if he were scum.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:09 am

In post 4959, T-Bone wrote:
In post 4759, sheepsaysmeep wrote: reading std is the weirdest ever

obvtown (game start) to obvwolf (flailing when ppl first sus him) to obvtown (midgame) to obvwolf (treatment of shirou v. psyche round 1) to obvtown (start of d3)

literally impossible to iso because every 1-liner can only be read in contex

In post 3819, Gamma Emerald wrote: Atp I think I’m just going to treat Shirou/Norwee/Dunnstral as Town because if they’re scum we just lose
also this could be such a bad perspective that it's just minus townpoints
which is really strange because I remember talking to gamma 20 pages later and thinking her worldview was remarkably similar to mine, something to flag

In post 4765, sheepsaysmeep wrote: sheep - sheep

shea - shea

std - villager, is definitely thinking rly hard, it's not just random bs

enchant - im just gonna sheep my towncore's read on enchant, but if I end up in F3 with him and no one at any point explained intricately what to think abt this meta-wise, then im gonna kill someone

Psyche

gamma - worrying but tonally is villager

Tbone - has the best vibes like it felt like town had a brief 2 hour good period and he was a seamlessly natural part of it idk

—a line—

leaves Dunn/shirou/cake

Wasnt even intentional to end up with literally 3 ppl, was meant to be a normal realist
These are 12 hours apart. Gamma loses town points for their bad perspective on the scumteam...and then Sheep produces the same scumteam in their next post. What?

this kind of sloppiness on read progressions is waaaaay more likely to come from town.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:10 am

I agree you didnt have much of a tangible impact except in the sense that I think if you had decided to push psyche its very likely psyche would have been limmed before the norwee flip ever happened.

And I think that it wouldn't have been unreasonable of you to do so nor do I think you would have faced much fallout for being part of that miselim.

So I think that's pretty strong ++town points in a world where psyche is town.

In a world where it was all a huge bus that goes out the window but theres a lot of reasons I don't think it was a scum scum wagon or a bus because I think scum was like 2 miselims away from winning and had plenty of good miselim targets so I just don't think I buy scum would go for a bus in that game state. It's part of why I'm even more skeptical of stds worldview because I think it involves ignoring the fact that the game state was not in a place where scum would be super likely to bus.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:55 am

I am going to swap I think. I don't think sheep is scum and I am pretty convinced by the dunn PT stuff.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:11 pm

its not about them faking it, its about the fact that I don't think dunn is capable of faking that recap with all the details in the right places. There's so many details that are exactly correct for what was going on at the main thread at the time and I just don't think that kind of fakery is likely.

If that is the case I believe we are indeed looking at a break down of what shirou and alisaes PT looked like and if thats true do you really think that's what a scum-scum PT looks like? What's the benefit of them faking all of those conversations? I can think of literally no benefit. So if I believe that dunn is telling the truth about what is in the PT there's no way alisae's slot is scum.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:22 pm

I just do not think that is likely.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:35 pm

I think the final two scum are StD and Enchant based on my reading of that norwee post which I still very much do believe was a slip.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:10 pm

If you think I'm scum this game you're an actual crazy person. I don't need to be cleared.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:11 pm

Thats an extremely drastic tone shift from enchant who previously had expressed zero suspicion of me pretty much the entire game.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:18 pm

I've alt slipped before while using Mafurscum as my skin specifically to avoid alt slipping. Idk.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:21 pm

Hm interesting, you said you related to me about it when I wasn't suggesting it implicated you. Feels like another weird tone shift from you.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:22 pm

If you're town it shouldn't matter that much, the PoE is small and we have a lot of lims. Your reaction is also very interesting in that context.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:23 pm

So are you just not even going to pretend here anymore or what?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:24 pm

I didn't insult you. I said your tone shifted. And it did.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:25 pm

If we flip you and you're town who should we flip next?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:54 pm

In post 5006, Save The Dragons wrote: Does no one really think psyche was a bus

What about that game state makes you think the scum team would be likely to be bussing? There were 4 scum still alive with 2 kills in their pocket and 12 people alive.

Scum is literally just two miselims away from winning the game, each scum gives the town an extra miselim because of the game being nightless.

Aggressively bussing in that game state is anti-scum win con.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:59 pm

In post 5009, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 5006, Save The Dragons wrote: Does no one really think psyche was a bus
What about that game state makes you think the scum team would be likely to be bussing? There were 4 scum still alive with 2 kills in their pocket and 12 people alive.

Scum is literally just two miselims away from winning the game, each scum gives the town an extra miselim because of the game being nightless.

Aggressively bussing in that game state is anti-scum win con.

Additionally if psyche and scum are both scum and alisae is town which I now believe theres no way that shirou plays it that way with regards to psyche and alisae in that game state. The play is clearly to go for an alisae miselim in that spot. I think it would be insane to go for a psyche bus in that spot.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:27 pm

Trying to make people think you're town is worse than just winning the game by getting two miselims by several orders of magnitude especially when alisae was a completely reasonable miselim.

Pedit: it does matter. Why do you seem to not understand this game is nightless. Every scum flip had a tangible negative effect by allowing town an additional miselim. It's not like a normal game.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:44 pm

In post 5017, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 4986, Thestatusquo wrote: its not about them faking it, its about the fact that I don't think dunn is capable of faking that recap with all the details in the right places. There's so many details that are exactly correct for what was going on at the main thread at the time and I just don't think that kind of fakery is likely.

If that is the case I believe we are indeed looking at a break down of what shirou and alisaes PT looked like and if thats true do you really think that's what a scum-scum PT looks like? What's the benefit of them faking all of those conversations? I can think of literally no benefit. So if I believe that dunn is telling the truth about what is in the PT there's no way alisae's slot is scum.
I believe I’ve seen scum fake interactions for expressly this purpose in an offsite game. Can’t tell because the private chat was never released.

Ok but a) I do not think that is the most likely and b) theres an extra layer here, because they didnt do it themselves, someone replaced Alisae, assumedly with no communication, and did it for them instead. There's several layers here that I think make this incredibly unlikely to be faked.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 2:44 pm

In post 5018, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 5012, Save The Dragons wrote: Flip psyche after me please that's all I ask
This feels incredibly weird to just post out of the blue

both Enchant and StDs reactions to my talking about the norwee slip and how it implicates them have been extremely bad.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:02 pm

I think there's a good chance that the interaction between shirou and enchant with the "scum claim" was theatre designed to give enchant town cred. Note enchant explicitly had the chance to hammer, the thing he's known for before, and didn't do so despite there being an additional incentive to do so in this game in the form of money.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:03 pm

So yeah I feel pretty good about an enchant std solve and will reevaluate if either of them flips town.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:06 pm

VOTE: Enchant

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:07 pm

I think gammas claim was that alisae and shirou faked interaction in the pt, not that you fabricated the recording thereof.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:13 pm

More important question if this is real: Why would you already just have that item lying around? Feels like the kind of item town would have very little reason to just purchase and the kind of item scum would have purchased if they, say, thought they were about to get a miselim on psyche and were about to be one miselim from winning?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:15 pm

I believe so, yes.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:17 pm

oh I was pretty sure you had to buy the item and then use it, could be wrong I guess.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:25 pm

team swap is kind of the OP item.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:39 pm

VOTE: Enchant

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:47 pm

I mean I actually have no idea what you think about this game either and you have been coasting off of one mech post day 1 with very little effort towards solving whatsoever. I can't even really think of who you think are scum right now and really couldn't say who you thought was scum any of the last few "days" either.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:49 pm

You had a chance to hammer shirou which is your shtick and explicitly didnt do so and then hammered later in what looked like a very staged interaction to me where he claimed scum right when you happened to be in the thread when you're generally not around that much normally.

So like, it's not just the slip thing and your reaction to it, but that certainly is part of it.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:50 pm

If Enchant flips town I worry that the team is like gamma-std because it sure looks like gamma swapped to enchant to protect std if enchant flips green but we'll cross that bridge if we get there.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:57 pm

If I am scum this game I have played against my win con at almost every point in the game, there's like legitimately no possible way you could think I'm scum, and I do not think you would get remotely this upset about being limmed as town and in fact I've seen you in dance react in a situation where you were town and about to be removed from the game and you're pretty much acting exactly the opposite of that right now so idk man you do you.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 3:58 pm

If you think me and gamma were the scum why would you tell us you bought a scum box. Wouldn't we already know?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:01 pm

If we're scum arent we just obviously going to give you loved again?

Feel like thats the play for any scum team if you're town.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:07 pm

Isn't trying to buy scum box and not getting anything a scum claim?

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:17 pm

In post 5093, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 5070, Thestatusquo wrote: If Enchant flips town I worry that the team is like gamma-std because it sure looks like gamma swapped to enchant to protect std if enchant flips green but we'll cross that bridge if we get there.
I have enough currencyy to swap Save the Dragons in right now if desired

I feel pretty good about flipping enchant.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:20 pm

lol ok.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:33 pm

5 dollars. If you venmo me it quick I can have the item in your possession by thursday.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:36 pm

In post 5100, T-Bone wrote:
In post 5014, Save The Dragons wrote: It doesn't matter that they were way ahead that means they could bus pretty safely and appear town. There's a reason shirou really wanted us to flip psyche
To get a mislim. What?

yeah I don't really understand why StD doesn't seem to understand (or is purposefully pretending to not understand) that if psyche flips there the game is in Mylo.

Whereas if the scum bus there they are 3 miselims away from winning.

It's like...a HUGE concession to bus in that spot.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:37 pm

*psyche flips green there

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:39 pm

Actually I think I do understand.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:42 pm

thats -2 btw if gammas double vote is real.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:46 pm

I think its hard to parse the motivations behind why scum is doing something when they're literally claiming scum. We've already kind of gone OOG at that point. The whole interaction felt fake to me.

Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:50 pm

Of all the things you're doing right now suggesting I'm mafia is completely comical.