Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Datisi]

VOTE COUNT 1.08

WITH 17 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 9 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 1 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-02-17 17:05:00).

execution

SIRCAKEZ [5]:

Aristeia, Alisae, Klick, Cat Scratch Fever, Asri Teroka

LYCANFIRE [2]:

Firebringer, Morning Tweet

ARISTEIA [2]:

SirCakez, Mistyx

ASRI TEROKA [1]:

VP Baltar

REDFF [1]:

Gimli

VP BALTAR [1]:

petapan

MORNING TWEET [1]:

Taly

ALISAE [1]:

redFF

TALY [1]:

Lycanfire

FURTIVEGLANCE [1]:

Black

PETAPAN [1]:

furtiveglance

NOT VOTING [0]:

mod notes

VP Baltar V/LA 13.2. - 17.2.
All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
This is a mod note.

[furtiveglance]

but yeah the vote on you was linked to Baltar's

This one doesn't like that.

I was weighing up you having a bit of momentum and petapan being my stronger scumread

[Asri Teroka]

This one doesn't like that, either. Baltar really wants to push this one over the edge and you, oh Furtive One, hopes this one has momentum? This one feels sad.

[furtiveglance]

I wanted my own vote to have momentum.

How can you blame me for scumreading you when you wilfully explain 0 of your reads?

[Asri Teroka]

This one is blaming you, oh Furtive One, of trusting Baltar.

[furtiveglance]

I do, I'm guilty

[Asri Teroka]

This one likes honesty!

[Gimli]

Sorry I zoned out of this game and there's a lot of pages to read now, I'll pretty much do it later

[furtiveglance]

pretty much

[VP Baltar]

This one didn't like the way Sir of the Cakez spoke after Klick and Lycan admitted to being in contact with them. Consider this one willing to vote Sir of the Cakez, but as thi one doesn't know the exact vote tally right now and is busy, this one is merely stating intent.

You said you were basically cool with cakez until this wagon became popular. He was one of the townreads you refused to explain.

What do you mean - and yes you actually have to explain your read here - that you didn't like the way cakez spoke?

[VP Baltar]

My own take on the cakez wagon is that I kind of like what ari is saying, and that meta read doesn't seem crazy to me. Cakez is not great at scum from what I've seen (I love you cakez!), though others on this site seem to be able to vibe him much better than me.

If ari is town, the wagon comp isn't terrible either outside asri, which could be bussing if cakez flipped scum.

[Klick]

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Aristeia
furtiveglance
Alisae
VP Baltar

NULL
redFF
Gimli
Mistyx
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
{Lycanfire, SirCakez}

SCUM

Considered thoughts are closer to here
The whole list is ordered
At this point petapan being leaning scum is kind of a meme but I like it anyway

[petapan]

Spoiler: Mild furtive case

I'm getting bad vibes from furtive after finally giving myself time to ISO him. There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari, and now I'm not so sure about Fire.

actually yeah I think [Aristeia's] early progression on Fire was towny

This is furtive's most recent comment, and what led me to do the ISO in the first place. He made this revelation after I questioned him about his reaction to SirCakes voting for Aristeia (#638). Furtive came running to Ari's defense in #638 once SirCakes voted for her for "having 0 town posts in her entire ISO" (#611). This was the first time Furtive has communicated any reads on Ari, even though he was given the chance to earlier in the game. I'll get to that in a second. But first I want to emphasize here that Furtive's reasoning for calling SirCake's vote "unfair" is that Ari in fact

did

have a town post in her ISO, and it was her first post in the game, during the joke phase: #66

This is the only town post Furtive can reference in all of Ari's ISO? This leads me to the beginning of the game. Furtive got some pretty unjustified heat for not providing any reads, but when he defended himself, he said he didn't have any: #282. Here Furtive says he "didn't have anything to comment on" and "if I see something I'll say something." We now know he thought the Ari vote on Fire was towny, so why wouldn't he say something about it here? His only read in #282 is that his initial vote against Fire was serious and that "Fire would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town." Keep in mind here that Furtive admits he thinks Fire is kind of scummy.

Furtive's next notable move is to switch his vote from Fire to the Klick wagon in #303. Furtive's vote is the 4th vote on the wagon Klick wagon, which was started by Fire, followed by Aristeia and Morning Tweet. The scumread against Klick was essentially non-existent and boiled down to Klick guessing MT's intentions correctly. It's strange to me that Furtive would vote Klick here, especially considering he should have gotten a townread from Klick from #81. Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?

You know who else voted for Fire early? RedFF, in #86. What's notable here is that both Klick and redFF appear at the very bottom of Furtive's Scum List. Aristeia is in the middle of the list, despite Furtive admitting recently that he had a townread on her from her Fire vote. I'm confused why Furtive didn't townread Klick and RedFF for their Fire votes. And Fire, interestingly enough, is at the top of the list, despite Furtive being suspicious of him earlier. The only thing that changed was Fire's weak case against Klick. That was apparently enough to move Fire from the bottom of the list to the top?

Furtive's Scum List:

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

I don't like this flip on Fire, especially when both Fire and Furtive have openly discussed how Fire would play as scum. And it just so happens Fire is actually playing that way. Bold is my emphasis:

I don't know - I had thoughts, my vote on Firebringer wasn't a joke, but it's not the strongest read either -

just that I think he would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town

. Whether or not I 'go hard' also can depend on my current mood and schedule as well

We would all do better to take an internet forum game less seriously. I approve of this mentality.
I can also vibe with the not letting team down thing,

its the only thing that kind of sucks about playing scum. But then I eventually figure my team wants to have more fun than to win or at least they should. So then i don't feel so bad about when im playing bad as scum

if everyone took my philisophy of playing mafia and just ran with it.
Everyone would enjoy the game.

But then the number of scum claiming in games would probably break the game

and we would all be hunting players who try to even pretend to be townie. Would either be horrifying or interesting to see.

I found these three comments interesting. Furtive admits that Fire would enjoy posting the way he did at the beginning of the game moreso if he were scum. And Fire admits that he doesn't like to let his team down when playing scum, but that his team would rather have fun than win, so he still feels good about doing things like scumclaiming as scum. In the second quote from Fire, he's saying more people would enjoy the game if they scumclaimed as scum. If Fire eventually flips wolf (which, again, I'm not sure of and it probably depends on furtive's/Ari's alignment), this will be read as Fire trying to excuse his early game actions.

Furtive's next big move is to leave the Klick wagon in #590 and vote for redFF, conveniently right after Fire abandons it in #502 to also vote for redFF.

tis i, Radiance

Scumclaim Radiance. Nice.

Klick you're looking radiant

You like to mention Radiant a lot. Is it on your mind from your role PM?

Which Hollow Knight characters do people think are mafia

Are we even allowed to talk about it

I don't like this comment

MT is Town Taly that vote sucks!

I don't like this either. How are you so sure?

Klick is maf, all town wagon, game solved D1

Talking to the town here eh? Trying to get them to wagon Klick off of a swiss-cheese argument?

All of these things, combined with the gut feelings I get from some of his other comments, have made furtive is my top wolf candidate. If I end up being right about this, my attention will turn to Ari and Fire.

VOTE: furtiveglance

okay, so. i think a post like this mostly allays any doubts/concerns i had about black and for a player who's probably at least a little rusty i'm willing to write them off as town for efforting like this. i'm less sold on the contents of the case. (btw, Black, people complain about long posts but imo spoiler tagging things is giving people an invitation to skip a post, many skim the thread and won't click just my 2 cents)

first of all, "There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari" immediately makes me doubt the accuracy of this because it's tying things to a player who probably isn't scum, in general doing stuff making these associative cases is pretty low accuracy because you can get hung up on incidental stuff, and if one of your targets is town often the whole thing falls apart. that type of case usually comes more often from town who are overzealous though i think

to start with i think saying 66 was the only post furtive was calling town is unfair, when he says "the early push on firebringer" he clearly means the subsequent posts, not just the vote (and if you read for context you'd know it was fairly serious)

you're making a big deal out of a lot w/r/t furtive not saying anything about ari in the early game, there's a lot of a possibilities where maybe he noticed the post but didn't think it was worth saying anything due to it being a minor townlean, or maybe the read wasn't apparent to him then but was upon review

Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?

this in particular is uncharitable, ari going after firebringer had substance to it (she thought him claiming scum had substance and kept pressing on it), klick didn't really have much follow through

and then with a lot of the latter stuff i think you're completely missing that the tone of those posts is supposed to be pretty flippant, doesn't really add up to him being scum


idk i want to give you a passing grade for effort but i think the case is very uncharitable to furtive's play

[VP Baltar]

Klick is there some asri thing I'm missing? I feel like I trust you most here, but that's a wild read

[SirCakez]

yo fuck off why am I being wagoned

[SirCakez]

i had a dream about this game last night too

[SirCakez]

wait ill be back in an hour i started reading

[Asri Teroka]

This one didn't like the way Sir of the Cakez spoke after Klick and Lycan admitted to being in contact with them. Consider this one willing to vote Sir of the Cakez, but as thi one doesn't know the exact vote tally right now and is busy, this one is merely stating intent.

You said you were basically cool with cakez until this wagon became popular. He was one of the townreads you refused to explain.

What do you mean - and yes you actually have to explain your read here - that you didn't like the way cakez spoke?

This one is explaining nothing to you.

[Asri Teroka]

wait ill be back in an hour i started reading

This one really hopes to hear what you think about what everyone is saying!

[VP Baltar]

Literally why is anyone townreading Asri. Idgi

[petapan]

Literally why is anyone townreading Asri. Idgi

admittedly that is really mysterious

[Black]

(btw, Black, people complain about long posts but imo spoiler tagging things is giving people an invitation to skip a post, many skim the thread and won't click just my 2 cents)

Yeah, I'm not sure what do to. I was advised to share my thought processes and also to not have long posts. That...might be difficult for me lol. But I will try to condense

first of all, "There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari" immediately makes me doubt the accuracy of this because it's tying things to a player who probably isn't scum, in general doing stuff making these associative cases is pretty low accuracy because you can get hung up on incidental stuff, and if one of your targets is town often the whole thing falls apart. that type of case usually comes more often from town who are overzealous though i think

This is exactly why I called my case "mild". It's mostly based off of player interactions and inconsistencies. I can definitely be a bit overzealous when I feel like I'm on to something, but the good news is I'm aware of that and I try to take that into consideration when scumhunting

[petapan]

okay

do you want to elaborate or do you have any questions for me

His reads have been developing naturally. If you want something in particular, I think his read and treatment of me comes from town. I also just played with scum!Klick, and this doesn't feel like it.

i had thought this as well but i only half pay attention to games i'm modding, seems a lot freer than he did in that game

[SirCakez]

i do somewhat remember previous games with Ari but she feels a lot different here then any of those past ones

in what way

use your words

you seem to be way easier to get pissed off and more defensive and I feel like you are giving less of a shit about scumhunting

[Black]

Regarding the Cakez wagon... I'm not a fan of how it snowballed. Mainly the votes from CSF and Asri. I'll have to look through at some point to see what else is noteworthy

I got a strong townread from Cakez earlier but it was mostly due to us mindmelding in #487. Some of my reads have changed since then so we may not be on the same page anymore. I didn't mind his vote for Ari because I agreed with him on her ISO. However, the fact that most of this playerlist seems to have a townread on Ari makes me very skeptical of my own read.

Ari has tunneled in on Cakez after he voted for her. She OMGUS voted Cakez and then 99% of her content since then has been about Cakez being scum. Can someone advise if this is normal behavior from Ari?