Mini Normal 2289 - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.16

Votecount 1.16

Cephrir (3): Frogsterking, Alchemist21, furtiveglance
Enchant (3): Save The Dragons, Cephrir, PenguinPower
Dionysus (2): Brickwalll, Cat Scratch Fever
T3 (2): Dionysus, Eiralox
Brickwalll (1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): T3, Not_Mafia

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-14 13:44:18).

[Frogsterking]

1.16

Votecount 1.16

Cephrir (3): Frogsterking, Alchemist21, furtiveglance
Enchant (3): Save The Dragons, Cephrir, PenguinPower
Dionysus (2): Brickwalll, Cat Scratch Fever
T3 (2): Dionysus, Eiralox
Brickwalll (1): Enchant

Not Voting (2): T3, Not_Mafia

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-02-14 13:44:18).

Hey Penguin, can you switch back to Cephrir pretty please? I am feeling in my bones that Enchant is Town.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: Dionysus

I'm not feeling Ceph now...i'll give you a new counterwagon though

[T3]

VOTE: enchant

Enchant is Town. I've never seen Enchant scum hunt so much and stay involved with a game before.

Yeah but Enchant only got involved after Cephrir pushed him for not being involved.

[Eiralox]

So?

[Frogsterking]

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

VOTE: enchant

Enchant is Town. I've never seen Enchant scum hunt so much and stay involved with a game before.

Yeah but Enchant only got involved after Cephrir pushed him for not being involved.

So?

My conundrum here is that responding fully to T3 could interrupt Eiralox' attempt to sort T3. I'll just say I like posts for Town-getting-involved from Enchant even before Cephrir came around, like 285 and 288.

[Enchant]

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

Combo of factors actually

[Frogsterking]

It's difficult for me to say but my team solve is [alchemist/CSF/NM]. I'm no longer optimistic that we'll actually get a wagon through on scum unless players are willing to block vote with me.

Yes to frustration

It was more that it felt like he already knew i was town

I am taking your perspective on Cephir seriously. For example I don't get the sense reading his ISO that he knew your alignment at all. I think it may have been genuine. Do you feel like he would have burned out sooner as scum?

If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

because no one has asked and i don't know if csf wants me to say it based on a post she made a while ago

It's fine if you say it

ok

csf is town because she's posting, her scum game is really bad

The problem with your read is that you aren't taking into account the other side of the coin: CSF's Town game is good. Lurk!scum can temporarily force themselves to post though it's not of great quality. What happens if you ISO CSF and you try reading it how Benoit Blanc would instead of like Elmer Fudd?

I also believe your read on Enchant is bull shit but I think you're right about alchemist. These wagons are all bull shit IMO, we need a new flash wagon and I deeply suspect this dude is full of shit:

VOTE: alchemist

[furtiveglance]

You got me on board for Cephrir now

I just think he feels more similar to Temple than Warrior Cats

He's bitter rather than detached

I've been thinking about the difference

Why did you get off? and why Alchemist?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dionysus

I'm not feeling Ceph now...i'll give you a new counterwagon though

I appreciate that for real, I believe that Dionysus is telling the truth though. Can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

Combo of factors actually

Okay that I definitely agree with. Can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

[Cephrir]

I... Need a minute to process this lol

[Frogsterking]

I... Need a minute to process this lol

1) I was right wasn't I?

2) Is alchemist a Flavor Leaf alt? They either are or they learned from him. He is exploiting your Town read on CSF and your scum read on Enchant, and until I flipped my read on you he was exploiting my scum read on you.

[Frogsterking]

I was right* meaning I was right to listen to Dragons and Penguin and flip my read on you.

[Frogsterking]

I’m back with a lot of pages having passed since I last was here. Please point me to anything I’ve missed or pressing, and I’ll begin reading through.

I would still like a response to 263.

Beyond that, most of the talk has been around Cephrir so I’d like your take on the whole Cephrir situation once you’re caught up.

@

Brickwalll

you don't have to do it lmao. I think he is assigning you busy work to try and get you to flip your read on him.

Associative tells between CSF and Cephrir slot*

Because of lycanfire.

What associative tells do you think were made when Lycanfire was still in the slot?

Who would like to know?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Dionysus

I'm not feeling Ceph now...i'll give you a new counterwagon though

I think this dude is Town too though, can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

Idk i think all mafia elims r1 are luck based or helped by mafia

You mean it requires luck in order to get everyone to agree at the same time?

Combo of factors actually

Okay now that I definitely agree with. Can you help me flash wagon alchemist?

[Frogsterking]

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

He hasn't pinged me, but for some reason I remember alchemist having a decent scum game, so i don't really think enough has happened to say he's town with great confidence. I can't remember him saying anything original, but maybe he hasn't had the chance to

That’s fair. I did once get nommed for a scummie for my scum game, though most of those games I was partnered with Flavor Leaf too.

I’ll be able to give the game more attention if not when I get home after today’s shift then on Wednesday when I’m off.

Flavor Leaf?

Holy shit, Penguin's right. I thought both posts were NM.

Enchant is Town IMO and Enchant + NM are never scum together.

I'll take a hint and reserve judgement on NM!Town because I got unanimous rejection to that idea.

I'm on pace to have a perfect gamesolve halfway through D1! I guess I could use a second opinion on alchemist though to make sure I'm not getting pocketed.

He hasn't pinged me, but for some reason I remember alchemist having a decent scum game, so i don't really think enough has happened to say he's town with great confidence. I can't remember him saying anything original, but maybe he hasn't had the chance to

Because he told you in the scum PT. Really bad, sorry.

[Frogsterking]

You got me on board for Cephrir now

I just think he feels more similar to Temple than Warrior Cats

He's bitter rather than detached

I've been thinking about the difference

Why did you get off? and why Alchemist?

I'm trusting Penguin and Dragon reads on Cephrir and alchemist has done a number of scum tactics I have seen before. I think CSF and alchemist played around each other really sloppy and it shows in their ISOs. If you read alchemist ISO from the frame of Town!Cephrir Scum!CSF I think you'll see what I mean.

[Frogsterking]

@Furtiveglance

These are truly terrible:

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

I said it before and I’ll say it again; if you flip Town I will sheep this read.

In fact even if you’re scum I don’t think you’re lying about CSF being Town.

That was so smooth I actually thought that was CSF for a second there.

i recommend protecting csf she's the only one capable of leading this town out of whatever drug induced haze they're currently operating under

I said it before and I’ll say it again; if you flip Town I will sheep this read.

In fact even if you’re scum I don’t think you’re lying about CSF being Town.

I disagree with this take, alchemist, I do think Cephrir is sharp and he is very aware of how his words will be interpreted after his death. He only started saying CSF is obvtown after I posted my team solve. There are associative tells between Cephrir and CSF slot. Usually I am all for looking at words and getting preflip information, in this case though I think it's important to take the actions of both heavily into account.

If you want to dig into this, then answer me this:

Often when scum decide to hard defend a Town slot, they are able to pick up on details and post arguments about a slot is Town, because scum already know where to look. If that's what Cephrir is doing, how come he has such a limited ability to describe WHY CSF is actually Town?

Some people don’t really like explaining their metareads on people because it can make them aware of it, and nobody’s actually asked Cephrir to explain it so we can’t really say he doesn’t have the ability to.

CSF has been his most vocal defender, and if scum Cephrir is wagon shopping he’s still probably not going to point fingers at his best chance of staying alive.

[Frogsterking]

@furtiveglance

This is terrible:

@Cephrir

Do you have any sort of personal grudge against frogsterking?

Fueling TvT

Don't turn off the muzak

I can get you more muzak. Lol

Pocketing

^Furtive said restless, not reckless, but I’m not trying to get bogged down in semantics. I don’t necessarily agree with the T3 read, but after furtive’s explanation, I can see why they were seeing that in T3’s posts and why they would push T3 on it.

Pocketing toward you (furtiveglance)

In fact yeah, this ISO is pretty bad.

[Enchant]

Okay that I definitely agree with. Can you please help me flash wagon alchemist?

SPIRITUALLY alchemist has 3 votes.

[Frogsterking]

I... Need a minute to process this lol

I... Need a minute to process this lol

1) I was right wasn't I?

2) Is alchemist a Flavor Leaf alt? They either are or they learned from him. He is exploiting your Town read on CSF and your scum read on Enchant, and until I flipped my read on you he was exploiting my scum read on you.

I was right* meaning I was right to listen to Dragons and Penguin and flip my read on you.

You didn't expect me to pull my head out of my ass but it will all be for nothing if we don't kill scum. I think [alchemist/CSF/NM] are 3 scum.

[Cephrir]

im not sure im on board with all your reasoning but i do think this dude is scum, soooo alright

VOTE: alchemist

[Frogsterking]

Why?

It will take me a long time to actually write up all the reasons. The first few things in chronological order were that you didn't express any paranoia about my alignment, you were extremely pockety with how you treated my page 1 post wrt to Eiralox, and I value T3's early scum ping on you pretty highly. Also, you didn't question Brickwalll while you were voting them for pressure which I notice are things you often combine as Town, and you moved your vote before Brickwalll could do anything AI. In fact this lack of questioning who you are voting and innopportune vote movements are a common theme in fact in your ISO. Non-chronologically, off the top of my head I value Enchant's point in 285 pretty highly, I noticed your SvS interaction with lycanfire, you TMI'd Penguin as Town, I believe you are a capable scum hunter who can recognize that Dionysus is likely to be Town and I believe this whole Dionysus push is likely to be a counterwagon. Tonight your language in 586 was extremely suspicious: you seem self-conscious in general when posting with Cephrir (which you do reluctantly after I call you both out together) and in 586 you felt the need to qualify that you *are* in fact trying to sort Cephrir lol.

Why do you value T3's scum ping?

I just think Dionysus has a decent chance of flipping scum >_> and if you weren't preflipping people and seriously considered my meta point, maybe you'd see it

Penguin is just an easy read

That is basically just the cliff notes of my scum case on you.

(1) Really it is going to be quite difficult to convince me that you're Town because I have a lot on you.

I think if I had to choose a few things overall that would help to change my mind it would be if you could convince me that

(2) you didn't magically divine my alignment at the beginning of the game

,

(3) you and lycanfire weren't SvS

, and (4) there was some purpose behind your vote movements throughout the game.

1. I'm a very easy sort... like look at my past games. I don't want to go into it more than that.

2. Your start didn't ping me.... so I don't know if I can convince you of this. But even if your initial post did ping me, I wouldn't have pointed it out right away. Me sussing you based on your first post in xyzzy game was a tactical error of mine that I realized quickly into Day 1.

3. Can you quote what you think was SvS with Lycanfire?

4. This will happen but in an hour or so. The move off Brickwall was because his entrance didn't ping me whereas Eiralox's did, and I thought it was a better shout for getting out of RVS faster. Wagons based off of "gut" can be easily shrugged off; the faster you can vote someone with an explained reason, the better

You have yet to follow through on #4 and this is the second time I've reminded you.

[Alianna]

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[Alianna]

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