Newbie 2113 - Shea it ain't So! | Game Over!

[Empathice]

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

[Black]

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

FWIW I tr Dio after his last post

[Dionysus]

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town. Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts but they can easily talk themselves into a corner by being so open early on. My only issue is that a couple of his reads (skitter, patchwork) seem to mimic my own but I don't necessarily find this scummy, just notable.

Also I think kawaii just might be newtown. That's the vibes I'm getting so far at least

Maybe. I don't want to rule this out, but reading their posts they clearly have experience from elsewhere. They have said so themselves and have made reference to mistakes they have made as scum.

But I wasn't a newbie to mafia before I joined here either and still fell on my face so I'll keep it in mind.

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

bib: it seems like you're suggesting that I shouldn't townread you because you have been pushing me which.... is not a very good way to play mafia. If you tunnel me then that is different, but so far you haven't. Your posts feel like they are coming from a town mindset to me, with a genuine intention to hunt scum and have some thoughtful content. This is still helpful for town even if you're wrong, no? Unless you tunnel, obviously.

And I did miss patch off, oops. They should be scum lean below Skitter.

[Empathice]

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

bib: it seems like you're suggesting that I shouldn't townread you because you have been pushing me which.... is not a very good way to play mafia. If you tunnel me then that is different, but so far you haven't. Your posts feel like they are coming from a town mindset to me, with a genuine intention to hunt scum and have some thoughtful content. This is still helpful for town even if you're wrong, no? Unless you tunnel, obviously.

And I did miss patch off, oops. They should be scum lean below Skitter.

"but their contributions already feel much more

helpful

for town than some of the more active posters"

I Took this to mean you thought I was being pro-town. How am I being pro-town while exclusively pushing you from your POV?

Definitely not demanding OMGUS.

[Dionysus]

@Dionysus How do my contributions feel more helpful to town when I've primarily pushed you?

@BlueBloodedToffee I Can understand calling their explanation TWTBAW except I think that scum in

that particular

situation would be likely to feel forced to give one even if it's terrible.

Black is defending, chainsaw defending, and nullreading Dion simultaneously. I Would say that Dion placing Black in their top teir makes them unlikely to be partnered though, and scum!Black is unlikely to treat town!Dion this way so Black's probably town.

(Chainsaw defending is attacking someone's attackers rather than directly defending.)

Also Dion left patch off their list despite scumleaning them.

bib: it seems like you're suggesting that I shouldn't townread you because you have been pushing me which.... is not a very good way to play mafia. If you tunnel me then that is different, but so far you haven't. Your posts feel like they are coming from a town mindset to me, with a genuine intention to hunt scum and have some thoughtful content. This is still helpful for town even if you're wrong, no? Unless you tunnel, obviously.

And I did miss patch off, oops. They should be scum lean below Skitter.

"but their contributions already feel much more

helpful

for town than some of the more active posters"

I Took this to mean you thought I was being pro-town. How am I being pro-town while exclusively pushing you from your POV?

Definitely not demanding OMGUS.

... It is possible to be behaving in a pro-town manner and also be wrong?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Reading and catching up properly now.

what do you think abt patchwork

I think town. Their focus on irrelevant things like gender identity or sexual orientation is too weird for that to be how scum opens imo.

This read is mad.

Fluffy entrance

it's literally rvs, bffr

My bad man. I didn't realise scum don't enter the game until we're out of RVS.

[skitter30]

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town. Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts but they can easily talk themselves into a corner by being so open early on. My only issue is that a couple of his reads (skitter, patchwork) seem to mimic my own but I don't necessarily find this scummy, just notable. Also I think kawaii just might be newtown. That's the vibes I'm getting so far at least

Tbh i don't find a post like that particularly townie, i think it's easy for a wolf to do/fake

[BlueBloodedToffee]

also they are an instant townread for this. if im wrong you guys can desecrate my dead body or something but

Was this post serious in terms of the town read?

Patchwork and BBT happy to read as town for now, don't see a mafia motivation for their posts. Kawaii is okay too. Skittles is giving me weird vibes for some reason. Skittles who are you most sus of rn and why aren't you voting them?

I think Patch comes across as a little defensive when responding to my scum read on him, but I'm not sure if it's scummy defensive or just a play style thing yet.

Weird vibes. I think maybe because she seemed a bit too focused for my tastes on arguing that Dio could still be mafia (not that he definitely was, but specifically that he could be), which to me felt a bit like she was trying to keep options open, rather than actually pursuing someone she had a read on. Does that make sense?

It's not strong vibes or anything, but it is weird vibes lol

What does weird vibes mean? Scummy? If it's scummy, just say scummy to avoid any ambiguity. Do you think Skitter was wrong in what they were saying? Do you find it unbelievable Town!Skitter thinks he has something worth pushing?

It just kinda feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill with the Dio thing. To me it feels opportunistic for you to jump on someone and call them scum over something that happened in RVS and I'm not seeing that as a town perspective

Is that not how you catch scum? See something scummy, jump on it and push? What was opportunistic about it?

^ that was to skitter. PW I wasn't a fan of your kawaii vote but I do like how you explained it and even admitted you used the wrong terminology. Your honesty feels kinda townie after looking back over it

I'm not sure how I feel about you interpreting Patch's 'honesty' as townie whilst not seeming to apply that same logic to Dion regarding his vote/read on Herta.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Man, this page is...I don't know what. It feels like there's some real AI shit happening and yet my brain can't work any of it out.

I disagree. Things that happen in RVS are usually NAI in my opinion. I feel like a wolf is more likely to build a case around inconsistencies in RVS, but I suppose you could also be an overzealous townie instead

RVS is most definitely not NAI, %'s make this the case more often than not as default but you'll find town are more likely to pick up on the smallest things in RVS and start progressing the game.

this is an interesting analysis but I don't sr skitter for this at all. It doesn't read as particularly overzealous to me.

I don't like this post. Feels appeasy.

VOTE: Empathice

I did like this.

VOTE: skitter30

We can go this route first if you'd prefer.

This doesn't make sense given your previous post.

Defending your scum buddies hard. I Didn't like their pivot.

What didn't you like about it?

Welcome to the game!

UNVOTE: Empathice

I don't like this. What was the point of the vote in the first place, Dion?

[KawaiiKame]

reading through their ISO in isolation, there is a lot of asking others questions about why they have done something or what they mean, but very little of their own thoughts. Not great for the poster with the second highest post count

I'm inquisitive by nature, even questioning my own reads, holding back my own thoughts

Black's post #120 is the basis of my reads, flipping town in my eyes initially with the detailed analysis

I feel Hadrian is town, good analysis/reads, I liked the pressuring skittle to vote

I'm enjoying the aggression of Empathice, I'm willing to pursue the dio vote in post #141 to see if Toffee flips powerwolf

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

I like dio's read post, pressuring me to give my thoughts benefits town, same with town reading empathize despite pushing against dio, someone can be pro-town while pushing a town vote as dio noted

Black noted,
"Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts" - #199


This possibility exists, Empathice noted a possible Black-Dio mafia team, to me Black's analysis feels organically town, I see Black as being town while Dio can flip both ways, my view on Dio keeps changing constantly

I feel voting dio gives the most info in the flip
VOTE: Dionysus

[skitter30]

Oh good you're seeing what i'm seeing

Pedit @bbt

[KawaiiKame]

0kay Toffee is coming back to the game, I liked the opening engagement, I disliked the post-dio unvote disengagement, let's see what I think of Toffee's homecoming posts

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Creating a reason for voting someone after being questioned about your vote. If you were town and actually hunting, you would not presuppose that something about Herta is scummy when questioned.

There would be a chance that you conflated a read on Herta with your RVS vote, however that is not what you said. You said you looked for a read on them after you were questioned.

I Don't believe TWTBAW (Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf) applies in this case either IMO.

Skitter, remember this;

I'm not saying Dion is lock town by any means, but given that he already had three votes and there are two of you already pushing that angle, I feel that would be an easy 'in' for scum to come into the game with so I'm backing off.

I feel like this fits Empathice perfectly.

also readlist coming soon

Why announce this instead of, you know, just doing it?

Bbt/kawaii townish
Maybe black too
Patchwork/empathice
You

Others are null

Couple of reads off but you're town enough for D1.

@bbt i would consider voting patch too tbh

I welcome you aboard the Patch train. Heading to scumville!

[KawaiiKame]

bbt leans town to me with this engagement, dismantling Black's NAI rvs theory, defending skittle's philosophy
herata is big null
patches is...null at best, though being scapegoated exists, readlist coming soon to a mafia forum near you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

it was just to generate a discussion. Something I think was successful. But I fail to see what is scummy about it? Like what would the scum motivation even be there?

I dismissed the scumread on you being kind of overzealous on me but I'm reevaluating that now tbh. I haven't been able to post anything this game without you suggesting it is scummy.

Aww man, this is like the 7 stages of being scum. First, appease. Second, fight back. Then, give up... etc etc.

I really don't like this. Your every move doesn't need to be scum motivated - I read your initial vote as town. A new player enters the game, you vote to apply early pressure and to see what happens kind of thing...then you immediately remove it and I was left feeling meh about the whole thing.

I had a thought that maybe empathice/dio could be partners but maybe empathice is town

I'm trying hard to hold onto my Dion town read because my early intuitions are usually much better than my actual analysis play but man, they're making it difficult. I can see this being a pair with the weird vote/unvote thing that happened.

I don't really find dionysus scummy. Maybe a bit townie for admitting a mistake like that but maybe just barely.

Nice, reading it the same way as me. Town points for you.

Why announce ?

Nice. More town points for you.

I like this analysis by Dio. Posts like this with a summary of the game accompanied by thoughts as well as a full reads list always ping me as town. Wolves are more than capable of these types of posts but they can easily talk themselves into a corner by being so open early on. My only issue is that a couple of his reads (skitter, patchwork) seem to mimic my own but I don't necessarily find this scummy, just notable. Also I think kawaii just might be newtown. That's the vibes I'm getting so far at least

Umm, yeah, hard disagree. I think Dion's post is extremely easy to make as scum and has an IIoA (information instead of analysis) feel to it, it's basically a running commentary of the game with a reads-list attached at the end for those extra townie points. These types of posts generally work well in Newbie games as looking town.

Meh, maybe Skitter was right after all.

[KawaiiKame]

Meh, maybe Skitter was right after all.

Skitter is most likely right, I feel voting Dio is the best move, IIoA is a pretty apt description of dio's analysis

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find the relationship between dio/skitter the most interesting, skitter pursuing dio feels like town pursuing mafia/mafia pursuing town, I'm divided with the philosophy of pursuing votes based on rvs slips/mistakes, if I take skitter's pursuit in good faith dio is most likely scum, if I take skitter's pursuit in bad faith then dio is most likely town, I believe you can scumhunt in any stage with rvs being the most nai, skitter definitely changed the game state with the dio vote

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

[skitter30]

Creating a reason for voting someone after being questioned about your vote. If you were town and actually hunting, you would not presuppose that something about Herta is scummy when questioned.

There would be a chance that you conflated a read on Herta with your RVS vote, however that is not what you said. You said you looked for a read on them after you were questioned.

I Don't believe TWTBAW (Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf) applies in this case either IMO.

Skitter, remember this;

I'm not saying Dion is lock town by any means, but given that he already had three votes and there are two of you already pushing that angle, I feel that would be an easy 'in' for scum to come into the game with so I'm backing off.

I feel like this fits Empathice perfectly.

also readlist coming soon

Why announce this instead of, you know, just doing it?

Bbt/kawaii townish
Maybe black too
Patchwork/empathice
You

Others are null

Couple of reads off but you're town enough for D1.

@bbt i would consider voting patch too tbh

I welcome you aboard the Patch train. Heading to scumville!

That's why i was sus of empathice originally but i think their later content is townie

And you're town too i think
You're hitting all the highlights of why i'm sus of dio

[KawaiiKame]

Can you explain how you ruled out town pursuing town?

Why can't Skitter's pursuit be both in good faith but also just wrong? This feels like setting up flips and I don't like it

Town pursuing town is a possibility I thought of yet failed to put down, saying that slipped my mind, felt to me like a mafia/town interaction, sometimes I think something thinking I said it

[patchwork]

ok just gonna post some questions so we can get some knowledge about the players

1 - pronouns? (some people don't have them listed)
2 - prior experience with mafia? (including derivatives of mafia)
3 - are you gay?

1 - they/them
2 - played on discord and did mafia.gg during the pandemic, mostly fell out of mafia post-2021. decently experienced though, i know most of the terms.
3 - yes

Sorry. I'm not answering these.

When you were playing did you typically pose questionnaires? Did it increase your read accuracy?

why? obviously you're an SE so the second question is pretty pointless but the first is still important at least
no, i don't usually. just asking the second so i can gauge everyone (the newbies') experience. so i can tell if someone does something really dumb and it's just a Newbie Thing, or if they know what they're doing and it's a scumslip or something

[patchwork]

also readlist coming soon

Why announce ?

so if i disappear everyone knows i'm working on it and not just planning to lurk until the day's over, lol

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you justified your thoughts of Town/Mafia or Mafia/Town and there was no inclination of Town/Town at all.

Again, why did it feel like a Town/Mafia interaction as opposed to a Town/Town interaction. How do you differentiate between them?

[patchwork]

My bad man. I didn't realise scum don't enter the game until we're out of RVS.

ok but your read is dumb as fuck as in you are scumreading me for a fluffy entrance... when rvs is all about fluff and not actual scumhunting

[patchwork]

also they are an instant townread for this. if im wrong you guys can desecrate my dead body or something but

Was this post serious in terms of the town read?

obviously not

[patchwork]

I think Patch comes across as a little defensive when responding to my scum read on him, but I'm not sure if it's scummy defensive or just a play style thing yet.

how am i defensive
your reason is dumb so i'm pointing that out
isn't that what you're supposed to do in mafia? you see something off and point it out? smh