Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Gimli]

I take issue with how you're defending yourself here, cause you're not making much sense. how do you think you have multiple paths to victory in 4p as scum, when one of the townies wants to vote you? the implication is you can really only flip that player now, or call night so we play with 3 tomorrow

or pocket theeeeeem

[Klick]

Specifically if I were scum here I am very very likely to just agree with furtive wanting a no lim at the beginning of the day and then kill furtive

[Klick]

Furtive's scumread on me is the obstacle to me winning as any alignment here

If I'm scum, I can kill furtive, I can get furtive voted out, or I can try to change furtive's read (in order of likelihood to succeed)

If I'm town, killing him is impossible and eliminating him might not be a winning play. Therefore I must go with the last option

[Klick]

Does that make sense?

[Gimli]

yeah

[Gimli]

okay lets do this

[furtiveglance]

Hopefully I die

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: No elimination

[Datisi]

VOTE COUNT 8.FINAL

WITH 4 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TOOK 2 TO HAMMER NO-EXECUTION. DAY 8 ENDED.

execution

NO EXECUTION [2]:

Klick, furtiveglance

[HAMMER]

NOT VOTING [2]:

fireisredsir, Gimli

mod notes

All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
This is a mod note.

[Datisi]

Everyone returns to their homes.

The sun sets, it is now night 8. Sunrise in (expired on 2023-03-14 21:15:00).

Fast night is available, should all living players request it.

[Datisi]

The sun rises. Everyone is alive to see it.

You find the following anonymous message posted during the night:

If for some reason I die, I have faith that you three can figure this out. I suspect I won't die. So I suppose I'll write this as a sort of 'opening post' to the day.

I'm town. Remove this from the context of MyLo/LyLo and I feel like Klick!town should be a very achievable read. I feel like the strongest evidence for me being town is the way I approached the last Day phase, as discussed in my last posts. Having furtive around is an actively bad choice for me if I'm scum. And like, you can try to counter that by saying 'that's WIFOM/you're trying to use that to get townread', and that would be fair if I had any reason to think furtive would be CONVINCED by that reasoning. I don't - I think furtive is likely to dismiss this line of thought on exactly those grounds, or otherwise not care about this argument. I also wouldn't NEED to use this argument to try and get read as town if I were scum here..... because as I discussed at the end of the Day, I could have just played towards killing furtive on this Night phase, and been in a fine position in a Klick/Gimli/fire LyLo. That line is objectively better for Klick!scum than lines involving furtive staying alive.

So... I'm town. I'm feeling low-confidence about the last scum. I think there are pretty good arguments you can make for all three of you being town, and I'm at the point where I need to buckle down and determine what reasoning isn't valid and why. Until then, I think the most value I can bring to this situation is demonstrating that I'm town and hoping that that can be seen.

Let's hope we can make this happen. I'd be very ashamed if we managed to turn this strong of a start into a loss.

It is now day 9.

[Datisi]

VOTE COUNT 9.00

WITH 4 VOTES IN PLAY, IT TAKES 3 TO MAKE A DECISION. DAY 9 ENDS IN (expired on 2023-03-24 22:15:00).

execution

NOT VOTING [4]:

fireisredsir, Gimli, furtiveglance, Klick

mod notes

All vote counters have been borked by the newest update, so please let me know if there are mistakes in the VC.
Apologies for late daystart, I got some new art supplies and got distracted.
This is a mod note.

[Gimli]

lmao

[Gimli]

I think its klick with a traitor role

[Gimli]

MT can u go over everything that happened in hood with u and rest of dead townies?
I feel like there could be something there.

Absolutely.

Grimme Troupe (Black + Peta)

Black knew he was going to die. He said well-played to me if scum, but also said I should have been replaced so im a little confused what exactly he was saying about me.

Peta said that smart cash money $$$ is on Klick, he thinks.

Black questioned whether Klick was trying to find scum -- pointing out for instance that Klick votes for wagons even if he thinks they're town (Alisae for instance). He concluded off with saying that he thinks it's either FB or Klick, but expressed dissatisfaction with himself

I agreed with Black regarding the Alisae point (I thought E was obvtown immediately after the cakez flip, so much so i healed em) but I dont think he could tell what i was saying lol.

Petapan says that he's been turned off to the game for a while (mood) but thinks from gameplay and role perspective, klick made the most sense

Black said that he didn't understand why scum isn't killing Firebringer.

-----

My lingering questions:

The Firefluffer problem

Why isn't scum killing Firebringer? I understand that he hides behind people and clears them somehow -- so... why no kill that. The obvious answer to that would be "He's hiding".

i can hide behind someone to prevent my death. if they die that night i die.
alternatively if i hide behind someone who is performing a kill, i will die instead of their target.

Ah. That's a supremely good role, isn't it? Now that you've claimed that last bit and turned it into an investigative

But in order to do that, you have to announce your targets. So why hasn't scum shot one of those targets and killed Fire? Black's last thoughts and my own at this point.

Even if the target is nullish/scummy, it's more than worth it to shoot Firewoofer too. From what i can tell after he claimed, he said he'd hide behind either FireR or redFF.

Fire's role isn't gated like everyone else's. And it's so good. Get rid of him. Why aren't they?

It was a 50/50 shot, so scum couldn't kill him for sure, they had to guess between FireR/redFF (he didnt indicate which he was picking). So that could be why. Would be disastrous to miss that. That's probably why Fire's alive as town.

,,,,,,,,

Petapan's final remaining suspicion

Petapan said that role-wise and gameplay-wise Klick made the most sense to him. He didn't elaborate much on that but it is interesting to me he would say tgameplay and role -- what is Klicks role

Scum already know my role and I'm gonna get hero shot by furtive tonight so I'll jump the queue

Each night I can choose to write an anonymous message for the mod to post at day start
N1 I deliberately chose not to do this because I had nothing to say - I was hoping Cakez would be an investigative and I could out his results anonymously
N2 I just fell asleep before writing a message (evidence: it's 3:45am right now)

Bruh

So it's a reporter and functionally not very helpful. What were the other scum?

Cakez - nonconsecutive commuter
TSQ - 4-shot flavour/role cop
ActionDan - 3-shot combined roleblocker/rolestopper

Yeah i could see it. Klick could also have other power not claimed. Sure.

But what about gameplay-wise?

Spoiler: Klick on Cakez

TOWN
furtiveglance
Morning Tweet
Black
SirCakez
Alisae

LEANING TOWN
Firebringer
VP Baltar
Gimli

NULL
Mistyx
Asri Teroka
Aristeia
redFF
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire
Cat Scratch Fever

SCUM

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Alisae
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
furtiveglance
SirCakez
redFF
VP Baltar
Cat Scratch Fever

NULL
Gimli
Mistyx
Aristeia
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
Lycanfire

SCUM

I'd really like him to explain why he's townreading Cakez though.

I've had thoughts on this since last night but I went to sleep instead of responding.

Basically, I think my Cakez townread was poor. Early in Cakez's posting I thought his forwardness and willingness to bring a lot of opinions to the table was towny. I think this was biased somewhat by comparing him to Lycanfire in my head and thinking, 'well Cakez is being pretty free with his reads and Lycan isn't doing anything so if there's a scum between them it's more likely to be Lycan.' Which isn't a well-thought-out point.
In my last reads list I brought Cakez down a bit because I kinda realised this but still wanted to give credit to my initial gut ping.

I think ultimately I townread what you are scumreading. I ISO'd Cakez late last night and felt pretty similarly to you, that what he was doing could pretty easily be scum projecting false confidence. I don't feel strongly about it but with you saying it's his scum meta I kinda want to sheep you on it.

VOTE: SirCakez

TOWN
Morning Tweet
Black
Asri Teroka
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
Cat Scratch Fever
Aristeia
furtiveglance
Alisae
VP Baltar

NULL
redFF
Gimli
Mistyx
Taly

LEANING SCUM
petapan
{Lycanfire, SirCakez}

SCUM

Considered thoughts are closer to here
The whole list is ordered
At this point petapan being leaning scum is kind of a meme but I like it anyway

I'm going to make a reads list completely from scratch based on my very removed impressions of everyone right now

TOWN
Aristeia
Black
furtiveglance
Asri Teroka
Thestatusquo
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
fireisredsir
Cat Scratch Fever
SirCakez
Morning Tweet

NULL
Alisae
petapan
redFF

LEANING SCUM
Gimli
Mistyx
ActionDan

Klick has Cakez town early, reconsiders at the behest of Ari questioning the TR, has him in scum for a while, then he shifts back to being a townread but i dont see a discernible reason why anywhere

Cakez stays as town for Klick a long while (i wont bother quoting the many posts where Cakez is around the 4th or 5th most highest TR for Klick) all the way up until the guilty. Klick tried to get Cakez to claim his role privately to him, which he did, and Klick believed it and defended cakez (until he got guiltied a little later)

Klick also has TSQ as high town during D1 before any deaths (2150, 2207) -- but as soon as TSQ gets guiltied, Klick says:

oh also i have another guilty - tsq visited csf

Makes me feel good about where my reads list was up to last night

Spoiler: reads

100% TOWN
petapan
Aristeia
furtiveglance

OBVIOUS TOWN
Alisae
Cat Scratch Fever
Black

VERY LIKELY TOWN
Asri Teroka
Gimli
Firebringer

LEANING TOWN
redFF
Mistyx
fireisredsir

POE SCUMMY
Morning Tweet
Thestatusquo

Klick apparently TSQ as town but then started suspecting him the night before the morning of the guilty happened. Which is a little convenient, Klick's might be trying to get away with keeping Cakez and TSQ as high as possible until they can't anymore. Maybe because ActionDan got limmed so early in part thanks to Klick

I mean, I'm grasping a little bit here because my own interactiojns with TSQ and Cakez are YIKES because i recall townreading them both (Cakez primarily). But still seems very noteworthy.

Especially considering there is NOTHING role-wise that clears klick, and it *seeeems* to me based on about an hour skim that Klick didn't cause the thread to go in TSQ or Cakez directions, only ActionDans

I see what peta was trying to get at when he said role-wise and gameplay-wise he couldnt rule out Klick. So far I'm with him.

Firebringer - See: firefluffer problem
Aristeia - guiltied multiple scum
fireisredsir - INNOed by Firebringer
Gimli - Obviously suggested killing himself and me but also he just kinda seems towny. Also the giving guns ability, didn't need to give it to Ari and suggest shooting him with it,
furtiveglance - I actually forgot about furtive. Sorry. He's a Lazy Jailkeeper. I see he shot Misty. I skimmed and couldn't find the precise reason why it's not him. I assume it's night action based
Klick -
Morning Tweet - not in a PT with living players

My role for anyone that cares

I'm Hornet. I think it's like a tsundere type deal where i attack but also, i

protect

. I dig it.

I think it's Klick, but barring that, it's technically possible for it to be Gimli. And everyone is taking furtive as town for granted, I assume he did a jailkeep that was pivotal and i just cant bother to find it RN. I believe Firewoof/Aristeia/fireisred can safely be ignored.

peta and black were solving it as being just klick and then peta died and ari shot black

those conversations never had the relevant impact ITT, that's why klick is still here

[Gimli]

VOTE: klick

I thought a lot about this game and this is where I'm at and sorry if I'm wrong

[fireisredsir]

is it normally possible for scum to choose not to nightkill if they have one in this type of situation

i don't know how that works

[Klick]

Normally scum can choose not to nightkill yes

[Klick]

Gimli is currently who I think is scum
I also think Gimli has to push me here if he's scum so that works out

[Gimli]

I also think klick has to push me here if klick is scum

[fireisredsir]

if town feels its to their advantage to no kill in 4p then why would scum kill

can the game just go forever

[Gimli]

if town feels its to their advantage to no kill in 4p then why would scum kill

can the game just go forever

there should be a threefold repetition at some point and it ties the game

[Gimli]

also it could be an odd night killer thing since this is another even night with no kills

[fireisredsir]

well yes that would be the first thought

[Klick]

Gimli your reasoning comes down to 'peta suspected me and also Black kinda suspected me and then one of them was killed by scum'

I don't believe that's your thought process
But I do believe you think this will enable furtive to continue tunneling me without reevaluating