Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

[DragonEater70]

Then why are you scumreading me? I thought it was for limming Alisae, now I'm confused.

i'm scumreading you for reasons mentioned in the first part of my 1360. in other words,

Spoiler:

I genuinely think 1208 is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.

except replace kanna with patch. and then it's perfect

Huh.
I think you both are reading way too much into what I was saying. It IS possible there were 0 scum on the D1 wagon for instance, I just think it would've been very weird for that to happen, because the way I see it (in general, not just this game) scum have to WORK in order to get town to miselim, and I thought the person who worked hardest to get Aureal limmed was actually Alisae.

But now I'm realizing that's not even true because I was telling Alisae that they were avoiding the Aureal wagon in 1147.

Anyway the point was that I was speculating two scum on the wagon, I didn't know it, it just made sense to me because I knew 2 town off the wagon for sure so it felt highly unlikely that both scum were just off wagon and letting us tear each other apart.
But evidently it is a possibility because Aureal V Alisae ended up being TvT.

[Kanna]

Okay Kanna I have a question for you.
Let's say we fast forward to Monday, and I vote Patch. I am going to simulate it (but please don't count it as a vote, @mod), by using a hurt tag, because these exist apparently.
So, HURT: Patch
Who would you vote in that case? Since you are SURE it's me/Patch.

that's an odd question... i'd be curious to see why you asked it after i've answered it.

my answer is probably not? it'll depend on the gamestate. elpis said they're going to be at a convention till monday so they most likely would need more time and i still don't know where bewo stands. my goal today is to get them to ~see the light~ so before that, i don't see why i would

[DragonEater70]

Look, like Alisae said I am probably not as good as I think I am. I made a pretty bold assertion and I was wrong.
I still stand by you being a good townread. I think I should've stood by my Alisae townread as well and not OMGUS'd her just because she scumread me.
Ugh this game is so frustrating.

[DragonEater70]

Okay Kanna I have a question for you.
Let's say we fast forward to Monday, and I vote Patch. I am going to simulate it (but please don't count it as a vote, @mod), by using a hurt tag, because these exist apparently.
So, HURT: Patch
Who would you vote in that case? Since you are SURE it's me/Patch.

that's an odd question... i'd be curious to see why you asked it after i've answered it.

my answer is probably not? it'll depend on the gamestate. elpis said they're going to be at a convention till monday so they most likely would need more time and i still don't know where bewo stands. my goal today is to get them to ~see the light~ so before that, i don't see why i would

Probably not what? I asked who you'll be voting, not whether.
Unless you mean you would just see me voting for who you think is my scum partner, and decide not to vote yet?
But then let's say bewo and Elpis "see the light", and it's Wednesday or something.
And I'm first to vote and I vote patch.
Who do you vote?

[Kanna]

I still stand by you being a good townread.

i am very touched you still townread me <3 and i also i appreciate you for trying to explain yourself. but what ali pointed out was a massive scumsli-level red flag so i don't think i will be changing my mind. i have also done my background research (the details of which i forgot) but there are reasons why a lot of other teams don't work to me. i won't share them here cause i don't think it's necessary -- bewo and elpis both know we're not aligned and teams involving them are more for me to figure out. if they ask though, i will share

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[Kanna]

Probably not what? I asked who you'll be voting, not whether.
Unless you mean you would just see me voting for who you think is my scum partner, and decide not to vote yet?
But then let's say bewo and Elpis "see the light", and it's Wednesday or something.
And I'm first to vote and I vote patch.
Who do you vote?

oh i thought you were asking if i would vote on monday. but sure, i'd vote for either of you or patch, i don't mind

[Kanna]

my mind is made up, although the only sliver of a chance you have in changing it is presenting to me a solve that is better than my solve, dragon

[Kanna]

oh i thought you were asking if i would vote on monday. but sure, i'd vote for either of you or patch, i don't mind

i mean to say, i'd vote whoever gets voted first out of you/patch

[DragonEater70]

my mind is made up, although the only sliver of a chance you have in changing it is presenting to me a solve that is better than my solve, dragon

Gonna do that tomorrow.

[Elpis]

Yeah, sorry for not being active, I really want to invest time into this, but realistically I won't be able to until like monday night/tuesday morning. I appreciate you being respectful of that thus far. I think it would be wrong of me to try to make judgements on the single reads through so far. Our gamestate warrants very well thought out assessments

[bewolkt]

Not sure what my point is, just please realize that this is not what bewo was saying so you shouldn't be defending that.

i reread the question and i still *think* i answered it correctly? like alisae wanted you over me so there's probs not as much reason for patch to hammer for me. but i admit, i do have a bit of difficulty understanding bewo's posts sometimes. not really sure why that is

if bewo wants clarification, they can ask me again though!

Sorry if it wasn't clear (I guess I am not the best expressing some thoughts in English). I didn't mean that Patch hammered because they are partners with you, but that you want to get the day over quickly because you were afraid of Alisae (the same that you are accusing Patch of doing in defense of Dragon I think you could have wanted to do it for yourself). Hope that makes more sense

i am very touched you still townread me <3 and i also i appreciate you for trying to explain yourself. but what ali pointed out was a massive scumsli-level red flag so i don't think i will be changing my mind. i have also done my background research (the details of which i forgot) but there are reasons why a lot of other teams don't work to me. i won't share them here cause i don't think it's necessary -- bewo and elpis

both know we're not aligned

and teams involving them are more for me to figure out. if they ask though, i will share

You mean we're not aligned with you or that you are not aligned with Dragon?
To be honest I don't think any possible team would surprise me. The only one that I think is really not likely is Kanna/Patch, but any of the others sort of makes sense to me in a way. I feel during the game most of the attention went to certain players so it's very difficult to analyze any interactions between others and most information comes from the lims. Like there was never really any push for Dragon, Elpis or Patch. I can't rule out any combinations between these players as scumteam since I don't really know how they would have acted in case they saw the possibility of the other teammate getting eliminated. I feel the interactions/analysis that Kanna posted are very weak evidence and somehow I feel I can make a case to convince myself on most possible combinations of players

[bewolkt]

But I will say that if I were to vote right now I think I would go for Kanna. I was feeling it since D1 and I haven't seen anything to prove me otherwise at any point. I think they are looking much better in D3 than they have done at any point in the game vs Patch that is looking much worse. But I don't know if I should let vibes guide me at this point of the game where there are facts that tell me otherwise.

But from past interactions I am not sure who would it be her most likely partner between Dragon/Elpis. Even now that they are pushing Dragon I feel it could be a play to distance themselves

[patchwork]

its definitely a play for distance :/ like honestly i didn't even bother to read, just saw they were pushing each other and me and just clicked off

[Kanna]

bewo you’re gonna make me cry. I am giving you my heart and you are stepping on it

[Kanna]

@bewo: I see, I did misread after all. it’s my bad. well I explained myself why I scumread alisae in 1394. I hope that sufficient to explain why I voted alisae when I did. what confused me was whether you were insinuating I was scum with dragon or patch in your concern. I’m guessing you mean dragon then

the reasons for why dragon and I aren’t aligned are here: 1356, 1395

like I said, I hope you read with an open mind. I’ll give you time to do what you wanna do in the meantime (don’t vote though PLEASE) and if you want to engage with me, I’m here

[Kanna]

in the case that’s it’s not enough, I can meta case why both me and ircher are strongly in our town meta. I don’t really want it to come to this actually, because I like to play fair and this is low key cheating because ircher and I are both bad at scum :# but I do want to win, especially so because I feel SO bad for literally being blind about dragon yesterday. and it’s not against the rules so I will do this if you need it to believe me

and don’t forget, there’s always this. I’m way way WAY out of my scumrange. I don’t *like* playing as scum nor am I good at it. coming up with the theories I did in this game would be utterly impossible for me. ircher was also in his town meta. if you are feeling doubt, I’ll do make this meta case on the both of us.

let’s wait for elpis in the meantime though

[Kanna]

I’m out right now, I’ll explain to the rest of your post later bewo

[Kanna]

You mean we're not aligned with you or that you are not aligned with Dragon?

the former. like it's not as important for me to case why you bewo and i are not a team or why bewo/patch is not a team because i believe you are town and in that case, you already know you are a team with those people. vice versa with elpis. if either of you *want* me to do talk about other pairs, for example, if you want me to give insight on why elpis and i are not a team, i can try. my focus today is to convince you i am not a team with dragon (as that was what alisae said yesterday) and why i am not a team with patch (because it will be useful to both you and elpis). i'll look forward to your analysis if you make any

[Kanna]

oh i thought you were asking if i would vote on monday. but sure, i'd vote for either of you or patch, i don't mind

i mean to say, i'd vote whoever gets voted first out of you/patch

also i am retracting this statement. it really will depend on the gamestate at that time so i don't wanna promise something and have that used against me. i'll cross that bridge when i get there

[bewolkt]

@Kanna do you have a previous game where you have played as wolf that I can take a look into?

[bewolkt]

its definitely a play for distance :/ like honestly i didn't even bother to read, just saw they were pushing each other and me and just clicked off

Did you have time to consider the game? What do you think?

[patchwork]

i consider kanna/dragon

[Kanna]

@Kanna do you have a previous game where you have played as wolf that I can take a look into?

yeah this is my best one from 2 years ago and this is probably my worst: in the bad one, i got sussed immediately, couldn't come up with any content and then repped out lol! imo, my weakness as scum is i literally cannot come up with deep content/theories. most of my takes are shallow and i'd probably just fluff by asking questions/doing busywork. i'd also try to avoid sticking out like a sore thumb, which i feel like i have with this game with the claim thing, pushing my reads etc

this is also a comment from a player in another game who’d seen me as scum. i still remember it cause it's true

Kanna stalls as scum and revs her engine real fast as town.

as for ircher, i just realised i misjudged him as his meta is a bit different than what i remember 2 years ago. my tell for him was that he's a lot sweeter as scum while he's totally unapologetic and does whatever he wants as town (naked voting, refusing to elaborate, dgaf attitude etc is towny). looking at his recent games, it might still be somewhat true? i'm not sure, but here you are:

town: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=54&t=88953&user_select%5B%5D=26976
scum: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=56&t=89922&user_select%5B%5D=26976

[Kanna]

Sorry if it wasn't clear (I guess I am not the best expressing some thoughts in English). I didn't mean that Patch hammered because they are partners with you, but that you want to get the day over quickly because you were afraid of Alisae (the same that you are accusing Patch of doing in defense of Dragon I think you could have wanted to do it for yourself). Hope that makes more sense

was just thinking about this again and i wanted to add that if i was scum with dragon, it would be risky for me to vote alisae as i'd have no idea patch would come in and lolhammer. me voting alisae without the hammer (and maybe elpis getting nervous about e-1 and unvoting) would only anger them and make them come after me more, no?

[Kanna]

I feel the interactions/analysis that Kanna posted are very weak evidence and somehow I feel I can make a case to convince myself on most possible combinations of players

also i do agree some of the things i've pointed out isn't strong evidence but it does point to certain things being less likely than other things. especially if there is no strong reason to think another way, we should look at what is more likely. mafia is all about that, isn't it?