Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no thanks, i'd rather play candy land

yes, but what if

Atmosfear 30th Anniversary Edition

:33333333333333333333

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is that a candy land expansion

no it's my favourite game

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Ranger

I'm really sorry about this ahahahahah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is gonna be frustrating for you. I'm sorry in advance.

But you're scum.

ahahha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Me in top tier on page 1? Now I really am malding

Right, but also, this is scum and we should kill it.

You can get in on the ground floor of this incredible opportunity.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How did Sail's vote get on the wagon?

Also I literally can't read vote counts in that colour lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so why is your vote after mine... that's so weird

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ranger is very scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

how about we look at the vote count and see what alternatives for counter wagons there are....

none...just you...great

i'm penguin, it's what I do.

aight we got Ranger buddy number 2 let's go

does the third scum also want to just open claim or wat

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i beg you, come out and act sus so i can find all of you before page 5

[Lady Lambdadelta]

These reads lists from Ranger get progressively worse lmfao

every SINGLE one has the tell

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Detective Penguin

ah non non non

retourner a moi, svp

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you can't get me to townread you by restoring things to their rightful order

Just realized LLD's not the only one I need to remind.

You seem to be confusing me with someone else. You've never played with ME before.

Why are people pretending like it's that hard to figure out who I am an alt of?

Well while you're the first person onsite people associate with penguins, you don't have a monopoly on them altogether. Especially for alts.

how u got all these reads after 7 posts

By reading.

But I have played with you, Ranger. You were literally scum with me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am not shocked you're using this as a defense, though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hi, still a few hours from a desktop, promise I'll respond to everything then, but for now:

I don't think LLD has said what the tell is, so how do you know it can't apply to you

You lack critical information. (Context.)
I know what the tell is because I know what LLD is referring to.
LLD has used this tell many times before.
Many, MANY times.
I have the tell memorized because I was a spectator in every game it was used. (Literally

every

game it was used, I spectated. Without exception.)

I know the tell doesn’t apply to me because every use of the tell--EVERY use of it--was at one player (without exception). It is a tell specific to that player. LLD doesn’t use it for any other player. Just one.

And thus, I know the tell doesn’t apply to me because I am not that player. As a player, I've been hiatus since 2019 (maybe, idk, don’t remember if I played that year), previously 2016 before that. (I only returned to playing this year.) The tell LLD is referring to didn’t start being used until after I had stopped playing.

LLD of all people should know that, too; it’s genuinely baffling she’s implying she doesn’t.


As for the self-vote, it’s simply efficiency.

There’s not going to be any elimination other than me unless LLD miraculously realizes she’s off-base. Her push warps the game in an unhealthy way.

Arguing with LLD is a waste of time and effort. I'll point out that she really should know better, I'll correct her, I'll clarify, but ultimately she has the erroneous read. The impetus to change is on her; nothing *I* do will change her mind.

I know this from said past experience spectating. If I thought she was scum, it'd be worth engaging, but I feel town is more likely.

My time is better spent giving reads for after my flip.

Will do precisely that in a few hours.

if this was the inverted reads thing i'd just say it, lmfao

i'm not shy.

it's not that.

and it's specifically for reading you, so why share it now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the tl;dr is ranger doesn't know what they're talking about, but they're doing a lot of talking to escape this for someone who has resigned themselves with a vote.

It's scum, it's just scum. It's murderin' time.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i know i should leave my vote where it is right now but there's something else i want to do with it right now. decisions

Look, I'm killing Ranger today.

You can BoP me later for it if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i know i should leave my vote where it is right now but there's something else i want to do with it right now. decisions

Look, I'm killing Ranger today.

You can BoP me later for it if I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.

that's fine -- i don't even think you're wrong, but i do want to have this day take more than 6 pages

that's... probably fair. i mean for me i don't want it to slip away when someone starts making arguments like the ones on this page to try and spring Ranger from the trap they are in.

Ranger's goal here is to look as pathetic and dejected as possible while also trying to argue their way out based on meta plural contextuals that don't matter to simultaneously give a feeling of unfairness and engender rebellion against my push.

It's somewhat working.

Partially because I am being unfair. It's not fair I caught them Day 1. It's not fair our system sees right through theirs.

But that's how it is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I see. she said she's giving reads and I find her emotions genuine although I did townread ranger's emotions in 2019 game despite her being mafia. somehow this looks different and idt ranger strikes me as a resigned wolf.

no, she's not resigned. That's the point.

this is the precise emotional result she's aiming to engender in you. You can tell it's planned because of the dissonance between Ranger's self vote and supposed give up mixed with Ranger's constant rebuttal of Ceph and I based on meta plural reasons, indictating she doesn't actually want or think she will die today. Infact, she's giving me vibes feeling confident she will live.

So let's take her at her word, yes? She wants to die, she's giving her reads, they'll be here tomorrow if she's dead and town.

But why would we let someone who votes themselves and wants to die, live?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

reminder to never self vote in a game with y'all...

...good?

it's fine Gimli's #3.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Watch this game be Mtn Dew Mafia pt. 2

fucking watch

[Lady Lambdadelta]

link if you don't want to explain?

a mafia game where i was innocent child and used that status to allow the game to develop around me and make final calls, I only placed 3 votes that day, all 3 were on scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ah - well you aren't confirmed town so that's the first gap.

yes it was mostly a joke about me hitting 3 different people i suspect are scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is it obvious? Im not so sure...

Well you've given zero thoughts on any players.

If you're not scum you're sure doing a good job of being +scum.

alright, since you say i'm confusing you with someone else: can you explain why redff is scum?

Explain? Yes. Coherently to your standards? Probably not.

17 was a stiff opener.
71 skips all the content prior to make a post lacking it.
73 was the fifth vote on me. Sail voted elsewhere, so it was only L-3, but it was reasonless joining the only wagon in the game--on a player I happen to know is town. If my suspicion LLD's town is correct, this action is extra-suspect because it's hiding behind a town player's push to vote town.
113 provides the justification, but continues to give no reads.
114 is the very thing LLD is accusing me of--being overdefensive.
127 is deliberately doing nothing.

redFF is blatantly coasting. That's not a guarantee of being scum. It's enough to warrant being my main scumread.

This post must have taken you a long time.

It's a shame you're going to die to someone who could never imagine putting that much formatting effort into a post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah so Ranger's doing the flood the thread thing where they post insesently about nothing to appear town.

Ranger made a whole post about me going down a slot in their reads list based on literal nothing just to be able to make a read progression post.

People should do what they need to do today to gather their own reads but Ranger needs to die today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I applaud Umlaut's posting regardless of alignment, but 205 is +scum by gut.

Scum:

redFF, Ranger

This is also a terrible take for obvious reasons.

No, it's not. I've been wondering if you might be doing a bus there for distancing, and the doubling down on it when you realized you were dead.

Plus, flipless associations are bad, you can both be independently scummy. Not sure I think you both are but it's not a bad take by definition.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is the actual definiton of flailing. You're throwing ideas and reads at a wall and seeing what sticks.

I'm reading the rest of the game. I have given thoughts about other people's posting, but I'm not loosening the noose from around your neck.

You should probably claim. Or don't, I don't really care. You're dying today either way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Here's the fun additional evidence for people. Ranger stopped engaging with any of my rebutals or points ages ago. Ranger has been taking small pot shots here and there to look like they are engaging but when I engage with every read list change they make and point out how ludicrous and transparently manipulative it is, they don't engage with me to try and convince me otherwise.

Which is interesting, for someone who until recently townread me at the highest amount in the game, and even now only has me at null. You'd think, for someone who is invested as a townie in making this work, they would have engaged with me. Or even tried to actually sort my alignment by engaging with me.

Instead it's smoke and mirrors and handwaving. It's agendaful posting intended to create certain responses, and not town motivated solving.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, what's the tell?

Why would I say that if I'm gonna run into Ranger again lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

{Gimli, Cephrir}
{Sail}
{Detective Penguin, Save The Dragons}
{Korina}
{Radical Rat, Lady Lambdadelta}
{Ethel}
{Umlaut}
{furtiveglance, redFF}

I don’t think Cephrir comes up with 232 as scum. I'm already dead; sorting out the technicalities of my claim is effort he needn't put in. The thought process of spotting a potential abuse of exact wording tracks with him developing genuine thoughts, showing critical thinking and targeted solving.

LLD's move downwards is simply further doubts about her approach being town. I had a thought last night which made me doubt her towniness. Her posts have a lot of bravado to them. She isn’t engaging with most of the game. She isn’t reevaluating. Her reasoning feels set to the read, because she genuinely

is

just making stuff up about me. Call it bias, but I happen to know her callouts are entirely wrong on every level. Her stance on me feels divorced from reality, not just because of my alignment, but because of the description of my play.

She already justified being wrong about me by making a self-evidently empty promise of being BoP'd. We all know after my townflip, LLD won’t

actually

volunteer as tribute to be eliminated. So her offer wasn't genuine.

Does this make her scum?

Idk honestly.

It gives me enough hesitancy to place her at null tho.

{Gimli, Cephrir}
{Sail}
{Detective Penguin, Save The Dragons}
{Korina}
{Ethel}
{Radical Rat, Lady Lambdadelta}
{redFF}
{furtiveglance}
{Umlaut}

Current thoughts.

Hey, so what bumped Ethel up this list?

Like, I recognize I'm asking someone who is making fake reads lists to justify a change that they'll hand wave away but I'm sort of hoping people will see how little you're interacting here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You should probably claim. You're dying today either way.

For someone claiming they're reading the game, you're apparently quite bad at it.

I repeatedly have already claimed.

I act N1.
I've no need to specify role because my role will flip. It’s the night which won’t. Contrary to your claims I'm

trying to save myself,

I've made it quite clear I know I'm dead today. Why do I need to claim my role? It'll flip when I do, minus the night. I've stated the night; N1. So between my statement and

my flip,

all the info's already there.

"I act N1" isn't a claim. A Role is a claim.

Oh, also?

The bolded contradict themselves. If you're trying to save yourself, you won't flip. If you don't flip, you're not claiming. Additonally, a claim is the only thing that might save you here because frankly if you're genuinely a N1 Cop then it's worth letting you cook that night action for one night and seeing if Mafia shoot you in your face or not.

And then we kill you.

But "I act N1" isn't a claim and I know you know that. I get you like to be obtuse and then claim how good your logic is by comparison to everyone elses (when it's never good, but I digress) but this is somehting I know you know.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I wonder how much of this is anti-spew. If you knew from the moment I started laughing and voting you day 1 you were dead no matter what so you just started posting as much misinfo as possible to make us become misled by your red flip.

That's actually really possible. It's precisely what you'd do in this scenario. You know I'm not letting you go. You know I'm going to tear your throat open. Why not just anti-spew?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's not contradictory if she says she's not trying to save herself though...which she did say.

Oh, I misread it.

lmfao.

I mean come on she writes "contrary to your claims I'm trying to save myself" and I process that as a full sentence lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright, that point isn't valuable. My bad, lmfao.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey, so what bumped Ethel up this list?

I realized I had her too low

accidentally the first time, and corrected it the second.

Tbh I haven’t given her placement the proper thought it warrants. Null might be better. I don’t have a scumread there currently; the prior list having her south of null was thus done erroneously. I don’t know what my read is

precisely

, it needs more thought.

She is definitely not to be lumped in with the likes of Umlaut, furtiveglance, or redFF tho.

Uh huh.

This is all a bunch of words none of which explain the primary premise.

You realized you had her too low. Okay, so what made you overlook her and what posts of hers made you put her above Null?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean come on she writes "contrary to your claims I'm trying to save myself" and I process that as a full sentence lmfao

Punctuation is important. The location of commas is meaningful.

I'm going to enjoy killing you, ahahah. <3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You realized you had her too low. Okay, so what made you overlook her and what posts of hers made you put her above Null?

She has no posts containing real content. I initially scumread that. At some point, likely when others engaged her (including a comment of, "she's a treasure, I don’t want to eliminate her"), I changed my mind. I'm not sure what to, yet. I need to give that thought. All I know is, she doesn’t belong among actual scumreads I have tangible reasons for.

So then why is she above Null?

Also, Ceph's personal emotional opinion about someone from Mash Side is irrelevant.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, what's the tell?

Why would I say that if I'm gonna run into Ranger again lol

Because we're playing this game now, and you need to back up your push with something?

If you don't think I've backed up my push, you've not been reading this game.

But also, no, I really don't. I can just say GUT! >=D and kill someone, if people agree with me.

Cases are scummy and I don't need to prove anything to you. When Ranger flips scum, it'll be proof enough.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think lld trs are premature. she might do this either alignment, at least I think so

Aww you do care. <3

Help me kill Ranger today?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not sure yet

Coward. :3

If you think my push is NAI, you should be flipping it to read me. Not generating paranoia and then going to find a counter wagon.

It's not townie to say "lld town reads premature, also I won't flip The read she is confident in"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

what are you going to do if ranger flips town?

gah

Step back and reassess. Allow others to lead tomorrow, get new reads and provide where my views have changed but generally try not to force a domino effect of my reads being the chained elimination reasons so that the game develops.

Essentially what I am supposed to do if I get it wrong as town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The question doesn't actually answer much for you this is a proven thing I do as both alignments post town elimination.

But you asked so I'm answering.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ranger acts n1

So either let her act

Or she's mafia being cheeky because mafia act n1

Either way I'm not sring you nor am I super interested in her atm

Nah. She won't claim the action. She dies.

But since you are opposing a wagon without providing any content, let's have you give us a scum read you want to kill today STD.

I definitely won't BoP you on it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The question doesn't actually answer much for you this is a proven thing I do as both alignments post town elimination.

But you asked so I'm answering.

i should probably have rephrased to be more specific - how would ranger flipping town impact your current reads or are you single-minded on ranger!scum?

Pre flip associatives are hard and I'm loathe to give them because it taints them in general. Additionally, we don't even know how the final wagons ends up. People are putting up a lot of resistance to Rangee scum which makes me more convinced she is scum, yes. I would expect to see more purchase onto the wagon were ranger town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

"Blatantly coasting" is town redFF

Thinking about it, this is sadly plausible. It’s not enough to reverse my read, but redFF isn’t my strongest scumread rn.

That'd be Umlaut.

I find the level of read progression, reevaluation, thought process, and reads themselves to all be lackluster. It’s been years since we played together, but I'm

fairly

sure he's a much better town player than his play this game indicates. He looks like he's faking his towngame, doing the necessary motions, but not putting in depth of thought.

it frightens me to agree with you

It's just anti spew Ceph.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ranger acts n1

So either let her act

Or she's mafia being cheeky because mafia act n1

Either way I'm not sring you nor am I super interested in her atm

Nah. She won't claim the action. She dies.

But since you are opposing a wagon without providing any content, let's have you give us a scum read you want to kill today STD.

I definitely won't BoP you on it

Are you going to call me a coward again if I don't?

I think you know the answer to that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sail feels underwhelming

so do you <3

I think lld trs are premature. she might do this either alignment, at least I think so

correct, although less so if ranger flips scum. ordinarily i would think bussing was possible but for LLD specifically in this setup specifically that seems really bad

Ranger acts n1

So either let her act

Or she's mafia being cheeky because mafia act n1

Either way I'm not sring you nor am I super interested in her atm

Nah. She won't claim the action. She dies.

But since you are opposing a wagon without providing any content, let's have you give us a scum read you want to kill today STD.

I definitely won't BoP you on it

why are we boping std

I just said I wouldn't BoP std keep up!

Alternatively because I have a secret scum read there shhhh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also god do you know how boring it is to hear "LLD early townreads are premature she can do it all" every game? It's a meaningless comment. True but value neutral.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ranger acts n1

So either let her act

Or she's mafia being cheeky because mafia act n1

Either way I'm not sring you nor am I super interested in her atm

Nah. She won't claim the action. She dies.

But since you are opposing a wagon without providing any content, let's have you give us a scum read you want to kill today STD.

I definitely won't BoP you on it

Are you going to call me a coward again if I don't?

I think you know the answer to that.

missed opportunity to respond "I think you know the answer to that, coward"

fixed

The coward was IMPLIED. I don't want to be redundant.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alternatively, i also wanted to post a RUN, COWARD gif

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I love playing mafia with my friends ahaha

Lots of happy hand flaps going on here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, what's the tell?

Why would I say that if I'm gonna run into Ranger again lol

We're playing to win this game, not a game in the future.

Yes and I can win this game without giving you the tell, lmfao.

It's +EV for me in this game AND future games.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also saying the tell gives someone ammo to defend Ranger with so why would I do that lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also saying the tell gives someone ammo to defend Ranger with so why would I do that lmfao

aren't you kind of admitting here that this isn't as ironclad as you're making it out to be?

it's ironclad for me.

People will always find a way with a tell to go "well that's just silly, that's not reliable"

it's just how tells are.

I've had someone who had a physical tell when I played IRL mafia with them, I told people what it was to get them on board and that player lived to endgame as mafia and won while i died night 1.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and I'm feeling like disengaging with this game cause I think this game is bullshit

is there any possibility of being the change you want to see instead

im kind of on the fence about ranger right now and i don't think im alone in at least having significant questions

Honestly, if you can't see that Ranger being this hard to kill despite literally giving up is a bad sign, just kill me instead to save scum the trouble.

I don't want to play House of the Dragon 2.0 where I tell everyone Mastina is scum and then Mastina lives for days for 0 good reasons and we nearly lose because of it.

Only this time I'll be actually shot at night. Probably not tonight, too obvious. No, probably night 2.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's the same thing that pinged me in HotD. If you can put it together, congrats. If you can't, I'm not going to be to one to arm my enemies against me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and it's specifically for reading you, so why share it now?

"specifically for reading you (Ranger)", you said.

I don't want to play House of the Dragon 2.0 where I tell everyone Mastina is scum and then Mastina lives for days for 0 good reasons and we nearly lose because of it.

It's the same thing that pinged me in HotD. If you can put it together, congrats. If you can't, I'm not going to be to one to arm my enemies against me.

Uh-huh.

Surrrrrrrre

it is.

"Ranger doesn’t know what she’s talking about", you said.
When I said you were confusing me with someone else.
When I said you of all people should know better than to treat me identically to someone who I am not.

You said you weren’t, that this was for me, not her.

Sureeeeee you were.

Why, there’s no POSSIBLE correlation between you mentioning a game I wasn’t in, and your read on me this game.

They're OBVIOUSLY separated.

It couldn’t POSSIBLY be you disrespecting my independence and/or identity. Why, they’re clearly unrelated!!!




...I think my anger should be apparent.

You are despicable.

I told you we are separate.
You lied when you said it was for me, not for her.
If you were telling the truth, you wouldn't need to bring up a game I wasn’t in.
Your bringing it up is a confession of having lied about treating me separately.

Shame on you.

It was present in 2019 too, Ranger.

But whatever.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and it's specifically for reading you, so why share it now?

"specifically for reading you (Ranger)", you said.

I don't want to play House of the Dragon 2.0 where I tell everyone Mastina is scum and then Mastina lives for days for 0 good reasons and we nearly lose because of it.

It's the same thing that pinged me in HotD. If you can put it together, congrats. If you can't, I'm not going to be to one to arm my enemies against me.

Uh-huh.

Surrrrrrrre

it is.

"Ranger doesn’t know what she’s talking about", you said.
When I said you were confusing me with someone else.
When I said you of all people should know better than to treat me identically to someone who I am not.

You said you weren’t, that this was for me, not her.

Sureeeeee you were.

Why, there’s no POSSIBLE correlation between you mentioning a game I wasn’t in, and your read on me this game.

They're OBVIOUSLY separated.

It couldn’t POSSIBLY be you disrespecting my independence and/or identity. Why, they’re clearly unrelated!!!




...I think my anger should be apparent.

You are despicable.

I told you we are separate.
You lied when you said it was for me, not for her.
If you were telling the truth, you wouldn't need to bring up a game I wasn’t in.
Your bringing it up is a confession of having lied about treating me separately.

Shame on you.

I mean, even if you have different accounts/personalities that you post under, there could still be tells that are transferrable given you're the same person across these accounts. Especially if you are unaware of the tell.

This also isn’t fully accurate because systems function like meatspace hydras. Different headmates in the system can be two distinct personalities, and can play radically differently. Vex Vience is a headmate in my system, (Grim), plays radically differently than I do.

Yeah except it was present in 2019 too.

So it clearly is transferable.

It's almost like I looked for it in 2019, to see if it was transferable for future games.

And then applied it here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Could you clarify why that one post convinced you of that?

I don't know if LLD read my question or not, but it doesn't look like I'll get an answer. And I couldn't find it anywhere on this forum. From what I've seen, the vast majority of messages between LLD and Ranger have just been a rather pointless and stale argument. I'm honestly rather surprised how heated this seems to have gotten, I expected these games to be a lot more... civil. At first I thought it was just a part of the game, but surely this kind of hostility isn't considered normal? Maybe this comes too late and things have already cooled down, but I just wanted to say something because this seems to have gotten out of hand for what's supposed to be a fun game...

I'm afraid it gets worse than that at times and I'm sorry if I did a poor job of warning you about this

Ethel is the last person I need a lecture about civility in games from, tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also Ranger, please kindly go fuck yourself with your casual accusations of pluralphobia.

You're a fucking jerk who signed up for a fucking mafia game, then went "oh it's different oh it's different" and when I fucking told you it wasn't you're STILL out here fucking trying to weaponize it against me.

I genuinely do not care anymore.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm fucking plural too, I'm doing everything I can to respect your independence as a member of your system but you seem to fucking think you're just better than everyone else.

I'm so tired with your holier than thou bullshit, Ranger. Your whole fucking system does it.

You don't get to fucking call me despicable for playign a fucking game and making an observation about your FUCKING BEHAVIOUR.

THE WHOLE FUCKING INTENT OF PLAYING FUCKING MAFIA.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Spoiler: assortment of links on plurality for anyone curious

Plurality Discussion Thread, This Speakeasy thread from LLD is also good.

more than one, plurality resource, about plurality. (this link uses multiplicity, which is the old term for plurality), plurality hub

i get you're trying to be like, defusing or something but i just got accused of being pluralphobic by another player when i've been extremely conscious about it because i want to provide the same respect i feel i deserve and have not gotten in mafia.

our system members have tried to play uniquely as themselves and it's not gone well so I'm WELL FUCKING AWARE of how important it can be.

But no, it's not liek the fucking plural person would have any fucking desire to treat another plural person well. It has to be pluralphobia. It has to be something else.

I'm genuinely fucking bothered. It's not fucking okay that I'm having this weaponized against me when I'm also fucking plural and I've been putting in every inch of due earned respect. Ranger has the same fucking tell, I saw it, I'm applying it, it's not fucking fair that I get lambasted like this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And before I get yelled at again, it's not the Tell Ranger is going to come in here and yell about. I'm not inverting any fucking reads lists. That's well and truly dead by this point anyway.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No, I'm posting that because I said earlier I'd find links and my CS game ended so I found the links. Sorry if it comes off that way though /gen

that's fair i guess. i didn't realize someone had asked earlier, i haven't read anything in the thread back beyond that ranger post

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You are despicable.

Quickly, need to apologize for this.
I grew up on Looney Tunes. I was channeling Daffy Duck's signature line. However, I realized after how it'd not be clear. In site culture, it'd appear to be attacking the character of the individual. That is unacceptable. Sorry about that. I promise it was unintended. Still, I'll need to do better.

I've reason to be furious. I thought I was careful to not cross a line in my anger, but I missed this detail and how it wasn’t clear. It is my bad. I messed up, and I am sorry.

Will be around later.

okay well the part where you accuse me of pluralphobia is the bigger issue but yes, daffy duck, go off or something

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and frankly your anger is your own fucking business and i'm not here to tell you what you are and aren't allowed to feel but equating your anger as justified based on something that is unfair, untrue and explicitly pluralphobic and applying that to me and going "well I'm well justified" is fucked up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ranger has the same fucking tell, I saw it, I'm applying it, it's not fucking fair that I get lambasted like this.

About that.

I'm town, so clearly whatever the tell is? Doesn't apply to me. I've the right to be furious you're applying a tell from someone else (who I've been

very

insistent in not comparing to me), and the tell is

wrong

because I am not them (meaning my insistence to not be compared to them was

justified

because comparing me to them

resulted in a wrong read

).

I'd love to say more but I cannot. (This much should be okay, at least I hope.)

I realize there's plenty more to talk about.

But you will understand my anger when I flip town. And you

cannot

tell me it's unjustified when I am town, you said I was scum by a tell not even designed for me, and you pushed my mislim through using it.

There are more reasons you have used than just the tell.
Those reasons are disingenuous because they were fueled by the tell. (This is something I could prove easily if I cared to. To demonstrate this statement's not hot air, example: regardless of what I claimed you'd have pushed me. Cop? I want to live through N1. Doc? I don't want to claim a result D2. I didn't claim which role so your take was to call me scum for it. Whichever option I did, you would call it scum, because the tell is the basis of the read, not the content I've given. Don't pretend I'm wrong on that, you

know

whatever I claimed, you'd have called a scumclaim.)

Nothing you say will change I'm town.
Nothing you say will change you've specified you're using a tell for me. (You've repeatedly said you are.)
Nothing you say will change that tell being wrong. (See point #1.)
Nothing you say will change that tell having been developed for someone other than me. (I wasn't playing, ergo, it couldn't be developed for me.)

Nothing you say will change your push having been disingenuous because of your reasons being fueled by the tell. (You're lying if you say your secondary reasons didn't flow from the primary one. Maybe deliberately, maybe to yourself. Regardless of whether you know it's tunnelvisioning or you genuinely have the blindness to not see the confirmation bias, it's still true.)

These are all facts.

They are demonstrable. I'm reasonably certain this statement's within the bounds of rules for both site and game.

I was confused by the wrong read. I understand most wrong reads, and they're usually nothing which bothers me. It's a game.
I've strong reasons to be angry at

this

wrong read.

They're not all facts and and you're still scum.
----

The bolded things are unacceptable and clearly intended to bait me.

Let me tell you something very clearly. Saying that someone is "lying to themselves" is gaslighting. You know what you're doing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unacceptable.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

A night 1 cop claim just makes me want this to go through more

...what

You want to remove Furtive as a N1 cop no one will shoot over Ranger and my read?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph I STG if you flip Furtive over Ranger and it flips town, you better shoot me tonight because I'm coming for you tomorrow.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph I STG if you flip Furtive over Ranger and it flips town, you better shoot me tonight because I'm coming for you tomorrow.

Am I obligated to always accept every read that you have

I'd like to play the game too

No but you are obligated to realize I said earlier today that if Ranger claimed N1 Cop I would let them live.

and Ranger did no such thing. Ranger claimed "I act N1". As others pointed out.

So I am saying if you kill the N1 Cop claim over the "I act N1" claim when you were willing to listen to me earlier today, it's a scumclaim

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's....not though

I mean, in the sense that a N5 doctor claim just gets you yeeted every time, if your only goal is to buy time.

N1 cop claim is one that has to produce results if they're alive. N2-NX don't.

There's a cool scum strategy it's called lying

And so what if they lie. Do you think we let the N1 cop claim live forever?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph I STG if you flip Furtive over Ranger and it flips town, you better shoot me tonight because I'm coming for you tomorrow.

Am I obligated to always accept every read that you have

I'd like to play the game too

No but you are obligated to realize I said earlier today that if Ranger claimed N1 Cop I would let them live.

and Ranger did no such thing. Ranger claimed "I act N1". As others pointed out.

So I am saying if you kill the N1 Cop claim over the "I act N1" claim when you were willing to listen to me earlier today, it's a scumclaim

Maybe I'm just stupid

Her claim is pretty terrible too, that's fair

I'm never going to call you stupid, Ceph.

The reason I'm murdering you tomorrow if you kill Furtive here is because I respect your capacity to play, not the other way around.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay I guess I'm gonna take a cue from the reception here and take a chill pill but I still think it's a very suspect claim

It is. I'm not going to sit here and say it's not. But it's a USEABLE claim.

And now, if Ranger claims N1 cop we have a straight up counter claim. 0% chance there are 2 in the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am 90% in agreement with LLD here, if that wasn't clear. The whole same night thing is wrong at 0% chance.

You think that there are 2 N1 cops in this setup?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You think that there are 2 N1 cops in this setup?

I think that the setup explicitly allows for it, yes.

Tell me about this, then

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You think that there are 2 N1 cops in this setup?

I think that the setup explicitly allows for it, yes.

Tell me about this, then

?

The Mod randomises how many Cops and Docs there are: 1/3rd chance of a 4/6, 5/5 or 6/4 split each.
The Mod then randomises a number from 1-5 for each town player. This is the one night that the players' role works on.

What do you want me to tell you about?

So we're average of 5 cops and 5 nights, I'm asking you the Odds that it's double up cops and double up nights, then the odds it's specifically N1

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean - the history of the game is readily available and I'm sure you know how randomization works.

I'm not going to engage with this further since my point was that furtive has to clear or die and ranger is worse because of the claim. I was calling out your incorrect 0% statement.

Just tell me the odds. Tell me the odds of 2 N1 Cops.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can do it for you, if you like. But I'd like to see you do it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Just tell me the odds. Tell me the odds of 2 N1 Cops.

why don't you tell me since you're at odd with it

ahaha

fine i'll do the work for you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

about 26%, it turns out for specifically 1s.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no - because they're making it up

maybe, but I'm not.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i didn't say you were, nor am i advocating for your yeet

yes but you are protecting Ranger, and despite Ranger's efforts to make this personal my read on Ranger remains about her behaviour and gameplay.

So I'm really trying to shoot down all the nonsense and just kill her today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD claimed a tell on Ranger that I think I see too. Why wouldn’t I believe LLD and think Ranger’s lying especially after self-vote and “I act on n1” claim unpromptedly

If this is true you have the power to tell us what it is

I'd frankly love to hear it, because if it's the same one I see it's not contained anymore so who cares and if it's not I can break a disillusioned connection.

But given I'm not willing to share mine I'm not gonna push for it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i didn't say you were, nor am i advocating for your yeet

yes but you are protecting Ranger, and despite Ranger's efforts to make this personal my read on Ranger remains about her behaviour and gameplay.

So I'm really trying to shoot down all the nonsense and just kill her today.

I mean - that's fine but despite your feelings, you aren't doing much to convince me that Ranger is scum since you are basing your read on something you don't want to discuss. I don't see it, and I think Korina's behavior is objectively scummy.

You can call everything else nonsense, but I think that's what you are peddling with your tunnel on Ranger since you won't back it up.

I've literally written pages about Ranger's responses in this game and why they are scummy. Why Ranger's behaviour in this game is scummy. And you're choosing to focus on the initial spark of suspicion.

Go read my ISO. Go read what I have written about the manner in which Ranger has reacted to this suspicion. She has been consistently scummy by reaction by pressure by reads.

The Ethel read that just popped up out of nowhere, the magical floating read I somehow managed to create in her as if flailing to find a way out before finally settling on this emotional attack.

The general refusal to interact with any of the points I brought up but a sudden desire to go at one she found a weakness for.

The self vote and the agrandizement of the "woe is me" to emotionally manipulate others. The seeking of refuge in absurdity that has hit others over the head.

There was a literal string of posts where I go "this is what she is doing, she is trying to make this reaction happen" and in the same breath someone posts LITERALLY THAT REACTION.

I have been doing the work and putting in my views and challening and poking and if you aren't paying attention that's not on me, Penguin.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, 26%.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if ranger is a n1 doc, she protects furtive and gets killed because scum think she could be a n1 cop.

if ranger is a n1 cop, she dies because scum think she could be a n1 cop.

if ranger is mafia, we can lim her tomorrow. scum aren't going to leave a potential n1 cop alive.

so you're saying we do neither furtive nor Ranger today because if Ranger is a town doc, we always get a furtive result and get to evaluate them both from there

if ranger's cop, we get at least one cop check and scum have to shoot one of them.

and we get to re-evaluate tomorrow regardless.

I'm willing to accept this argument, but who are we killing today instead, then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i could probably do Sail. i'm probably null on Korina at this point. i think redFF is another good slot to target. Rat is ???. i have no idea on umlaut.

wouldn't do pengy, gimly, cephy, lldy, ethely, and obv rangery and furtivy at this point

VOTE: sail

Lemme go look at my posting from today before I turned off the part of my brain that thinks about mafia and went into kill mode, which was about post 329.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Gimli

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If we aren't doing either today and we're picking up this thread of conversation tomorrow, Gimli's the elimination. Gimli's early positioning around the Ranger wagon is bad, scummy regardless of Ranger's alignment and the more recent posting of give up feels like an apathy strike. Gimli also feels different to when they were town in 2019.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh but if we're not doing Ranger today, if I die tonight, you fucking merc Ranger savvy?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm willing to do Gimli or RedFF and that's about it if we aren't doing Ranger.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I actually want to do Gimli now. I know this was me being a bit of a jerk to STD but I actually am suspicious of STD and I know STD won't bus day 1 as a general rule so putting two fish on the line and having STD go "oh I'll thikn about Gimli" but then rush to do RedFF when I dangle that doesn't bode well for Red being scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I recognize that this is a certified Asshole Move(tm) but uh, yeah. We're never killing RedFF today sorry.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i do bus d1

fucking lies and you know it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ahahaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I actually want to do Gimli now. I know this was me being a bit of a jerk to STD but I actually am suspicious of STD and I know STD won't bus day 1 as a general rule so putting two fish on the line and having STD go "oh I'll thikn about Gimli" but then rush to do RedFF when I dangle that doesn't bode well for Red being scum.

friends dont let friends preflip

SHHH.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

LET ME HAVE THIS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(okay i feel better. playing with friends is helpful to my mental. it also means you both are sitting in a major blindspot for me alignment wise which sucks but eh, my mental is a valuable thing lol)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if you're preflipping std why not vote std

because blindspot, tbh. if i'm wrong about STD I don't want to have removed STD from the game when STD + you are giving me good mental.

And also because town STD has been a steady miselim in just baout every game i've played with them recently and scum STD hasn't so I'd rather see the amount of pushback STD gets as the day grows but shhh that was a secret i wasn't supposed to say that

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i am unlikely to though so that's fair

yeah you know my "never" is always exaggeration for the sake of "unlikely"

i mean I never do lots of things, until I do. that's the whole thing with me. i have a range the size of my ego.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

plus, it makes me look super townie to not push for std here. You both flip on me if I haven't found scum by day 3-4ish, so if i show that i don't want to kill him i can kill him later and look really good

it's a scum strategy :3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if you're preflipping std why not vote std

because blindspot, tbh. if i'm wrong about STD I don't want to have removed STD from the game when STD + you are giving me good mental.

And also because town STD has been a steady miselim in just baout every game i've played with them recently and scum STD hasn't so I'd rather see the amount of pushback STD gets as the day grows but shhh that was a secret i wasn't supposed to say that

that's fair

im feeling ambivolent about him right now

i wonder if it's meaningful that he hasn't tried to vote me yet lol

i can tell you my expectation when you're both in a game together is that one of you will vote the other on day 2, but never day 1. day 1 vote has no meaning besides feeling each other out, and will never result in anything.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

plus, it makes me look super townie to not push for std here. You both flip on me if I haven't found scum by day 3-4ish, so if i show that i don't want to kill him i can kill him later and look really good

it's a scum strategy :3

excuse me while i go have an aneurysm

ahahahah

sorry i probably shouldn't do that, but it was too much not to.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it makes you both really easy miseliminations when you play together and you're both town.

i just sell one of you on suspecting the other, get general town support, kill them during the day and then shoot the other one during the night before they get to tell the town how they feel about my slot, because they've been discredited by being wrong about the other one so no one follows their reads.

I was gonna do that to you both this game, obviously, hence why I'm telling you :3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

just for that i'm unvoting
UNVOTE:

sahjasjkl
ahahahaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

come on, come backkkkk

is it because Ceph and you were on the same wagon which made you paranoid about its success because you two rarely align in reads, which is another abusable fact of your early game play when you're both town because it's easy by result to make one of you vote town and just support that one while antagonizing the other one?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

see

i See so much more than i Say in mafia.

i have a whole profile on both of you up here when it comes to mafia. the kinds of moves you will make, when you'll turn, what it looks like when you suspect someone and are holding back, what it looks like when you're not confident in what you're saying

and its never PERFECT but it does mean i can do the cool thing i'm doing now which is to say things like this that are hard to guess but otherwise true statements in a large section of games and make you both freak out just a little

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you know my address, bring it bitch <3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

is hearing fen snort at that post an out of game influence

real life mafia pt.2 Star Fox Boogaloo

[Lady Lambdadelta]

we should not let anyone else post on this page

sure, one second let me just make another aneurysing post for you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Did you know:

Cephrir is far more likely to believe someone's genuine emoting in early game than STD? It's true, if you want an early game Ceph town read, not a strong one just a "won't kill" one, appear confident in your reads and interact with others in a way that makes you look like you are dynamically changing and flexible. Flexibility is a big towntell for Cephrir.

STD on the other hand is the more paranoid of the two early game. STD won't give out strong townreads, but will begin to make a list of people he doesn't want to kill. To find yourself on that list, give yourself enough gravitas and uncertainty to your alignment that he doesn't want to tank his town position for the sake of murdering you, because if he's wrong he'll probably die for it. That fear can drive him to do a lot. He may not AGREE with you, infact if he scum reads you but won't kill you for fear of being wrong you can manipulate this by pushing a scum wagon poorly and driving him onto a townie.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i don't know what my brain did when i woke up today but i think i might be a psychopath lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think you think i think more than i think

i don't think you think i think you react and it's your reactive behaviours that provide these guides.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i react you react i react more than i react

i think i react way more than you do, tbh. i have weaknesses allllll over the board.

i just cover them decently by being fucking weird

[Lady Lambdadelta]

:3

this is fun, i feel happy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm gonna plant my flag in redFF and see if people follow for now

no redFF lives today we do gimli

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: redFF :3

i want to do this too so badly but you know that's a townie.

you know that's a bad townie lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i don't know that currently but admittedly the main reason i'm doing it is to mess with you

wow so mean much cruel very sadge

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've decided it's weird that everyone was cool with voting ranger out despite her claim for a while and then like at least 3 players jumped down my throat for wanting to lim furtive despite his claim

Did ranger at any point claim their actual role or just "I can act N1" still.

Because ignoring that discrepency is a large deal

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You should probably claim. You're dying today either way.

For someone claiming they're reading the game, you're apparently quite bad at it.

I repeatedly have already claimed.

I act N1.
I've no need to specify role because my role will flip. It’s the night which won’t. Contrary to your claims I'm

trying to save myself,

I've made it quite clear I know I'm dead today. Why do I need to claim my role? It'll flip when I do, minus the night. I've stated the night; N1. So between my statement and

my flip,

all the info's already there.

"I act N1" isn't a claim. A Role is a claim.

Oh, also?

The bolded contradict themselves. If you're trying to save yourself, you won't flip. If you don't flip, you're not claiming. Additonally, a claim is the only thing that might save you here because frankly if you're genuinely a N1 Cop then it's worth letting you cook that night action for one night and seeing if Mafia shoot you in your face or not.

And then we kill you.

But "I act N1" isn't a claim and I know you know that. I get you like to be obtuse and then claim how good your logic is by comparison to everyone elses (when it's never good, but I digress) but this is somehting I know you know.

OH WOW IT'S ALMOST LIKE I DID SAY THAT YOU GASLIGHTING

i need so much chill and i have none

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it was part of me misreading the thing, but it has been my thoughts on it the whole fucking time.


"a claim is the only thing that might save you here because if you're a N1 cop it's worth letting you cook that night action for one night and seeing if Mafia shoot you in the face or not"

in what world is this anything but me LITERALLY SAYING THIS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

For someone who pretends to fucking read everything by doing these quote strips and then makes fun of others for their "reading comprehension" you sure seem to lack the ability to read the fucking game yourself you arrogant self righteous scumbag.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And no, you don't engage with me. You just say shitty things and snipe at people with your passive aggressive comments.

People who AREN'T EVEN IN THE GAME ANYMORE AND CAN'T DEFEND THEMSELVES YOU COWARD.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

of note scumbag here referring to their alignment, because i'm still convinced they're scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the arrogant and self righteous parts though, that's just me being livid with having to deal with this passive aggressive self important superiority nonsense every time i come in this thread

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i need to calm down

i literally stepped away from this game to calm down, came back and am instantly incandescently angry again

which is not great! i sort of hate this!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

no, but you did literally torpedo the game thread when you accused me of unspeakable things with 0 substantiation and made it clear over the course of multiple posts how angry you were before going on a gaslighting campaign which is now culminating in some grand attempt to defame my character as being unreasonable and unapproachable while never taking a single note or rebuttal in your life.

You know, the thing you were warned for twice.

That thing that existed.

People might have been referring to that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I personally said LLD's tunnel itself, but yeah your reaction is also strange because I would never self-vote, nor do you seem to consider your elimination the best outcome anymore. In fact it looks like you dropped that quite quickly.

she never had any intention of it. it was all theatre. it was always theatre. i've flipped my reads in mafia more times than i can count and ranger may not be the same person as mastina but she damn well knows it. but she decided it was time to act and behave this way and power to her. i had no problem with it before it became personal when she made it personal.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

reading that post again i'm realizing i'm not as clear as i sounded in my head.

ranger has played 0 town games with me, but Mastina has played many and Ranger should know this about me even if she's not the same as Mastina.

Is the point here

[Lady Lambdadelta]

enchant...buddy...hey...you ok?

What's this about? Lol

He says its random I dont really care. Id prefer enchant try but I'm mot gonna get mad over it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No i have insomnia i didn't sleep for like... how many hours

Jésus

Please do your best to finf rest okay? Personal health first

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am still fueling with energy for some reason, while being tired at same time.

yes that's a normal thing with insomnia. you feel this energy high while feeling like death. it's best to try and relax and find some restful things so you fall asleep. a movie to watch. take glasses off. anything you do for bed time routine.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

enchant...buddy...hey...you ok?

What's this about? Lol

He says its random I dont really care. Id prefer enchant try but I'm mot gonna get mad over it

I'm just having fun no worries.

(he also said RR was random...it's enchant)

oh okay bet

i'm on edge as you can see so i'm trying to like

you probably get it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You're the fucking worst Ranger.

Literally no one is trying to kill you today anymore. You're living in a fantasy world of persecution of your own creation.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

cool - talk later

can i talk with you so i don't go mental every time ranger posts

[Lady Lambdadelta]

cool - talk later

can i talk with you so i don't go mental every time ranger posts

absolutely. What do you want to talk about?

i want to get a sense of where your reads this game are at and sort of compare notes because my brain has been scrambled since post 329 and i'm fully off base so i just kind of want to give my gutcheck impressions to some reads you have as a way of re-calibrating myself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i full on recognisze that's vague as shit but

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I got a guilty result last night.

then claim it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want people to play as usual for a bit first. Just to see what happens!

that's...

but you said you had a guilty which already skews it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

honestly i just wanna kill ranger

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ceph, claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Cephrir

Who cares

I do, actually.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So here's the deal

If Furtive is town, killing Ceph means they have to shoot furtive at some point since he's confirmed town.

If Furtive's scum, killing Ceph first means scum trade 1 for 1 with us which is fine but given Furtive would have been killed for it near regardless anyway if he gave a town result to test it... it's actually mathematically better for scum.

If we kill Furtive first and Ceph's scum, we're in the same world as world 2. Someone dies tonight, we kill Ceph tomorrow no big deal.

If we kill Furtive first and Furtive is scum, it makes Ceph LIKELY but not CONFIRMED town.

I'm of the opinion that we should kill Furtive here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Here is my thing.

If Ceph IS town we get thr benefit of Ceph's N3 doc action or scum kill Ceph for us before then which is good ANYWAY.

So there is no real benefit to which order we kill furtive and Ceph in besides killikg scum first being correct.

Furtive's claim was hyper delayed and strange and if he was town with a guilty he should have just claimed it?

But then again scum would have had all night to prepare a fake claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD suggesting to kill furtive to prevent him being conftown and forcing mafia shoting here.

Please kill me as well so mafia won't shot me.

LLD moment.

Yeah unless Furtive is scum.

In which case killing Furtive first is best.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

For me today should come down to "who do you scumread on play more".

The upside for hitting scum first is good on both sides. Furtive benefits from this fake claim as scum and there is good reason to do it if they are scum.

So we should kill the scummier one first.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cephrir why did you request lld post before day end

I also want to know this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if we kill furtive and he is scum then I think that's bad for cephrir cause I think furtive would only do this as scum to flip himself or a partner and spew the other town for endgame

this makes fuckall sense to me otherwise???

Uhh no?

Fuck no.

That's the worst play. If Furtive or Ceph are alive nearing endgame you kill them. You kill them the round before ELO. Always. Mechanically.

So this play makes 0 sense for scum targetting scum and even if that is what they did we will win from it by killong the other one before ELO.

Furtive was dead to rights anyway so scum furtive targetting a townie to trade and space for his sick team is a good scum move.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are people so disillusioned by cop claims they can't see one ever being faked? lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Consider this.

They can never both be town right? Cause town furtive won't lie. So scratch that.

They can both be scum but if they ARE both scum it is okay. We kill the one we keep alive the day before ELO as a test every time so if they are both scum it's 2 of 3 scum down.

So we only need to worry about town/scum splits. If Furtive town, it's obvious what was done. Furtive copped a scum. Yay.

If furtive scum, Furitve nearly died yesterday claims N1 cop to buy time fakes a guilty and gets 2 dead townies (FF and Ceph) for his 1 claim.

This is perfectly good strategy for scum because it also gives 2 night kills as well.

So both have odds at being scum here so it is down to reads.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My current off the rails theory is {lld, ceph, furtive} playing 4d chess atm

There is 0 chance you believe this.

If I'm scum with Ceph and Furtive I never allow this to happen because it loses us thr game with how OTT I was day 1 with Ranger shit. I can't carry when both my scum team are dead in a claim war and I need to then kill 2 townies to win.

Tried that in PYP. Doesn't work lmfao.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Math wise I am saying kill Ceph day before ELO right?

So we kill Furtive he flips scum we kill some townies and then its... What 7 people alive?

So I have to kill ceph that day shoot someone and its 4v1 meaning I nees to kill a townie shoot a townie kill a townie shoot a townie

And never get copped or have a shot blocked by a doctor at any point because that either kills me or delays the clock by 1 meaning I need to kill 3 townies by day vote.

Never happening.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY RESIST LLD AUTHORITY

What is your problem? What is your major malfunction?

I'm presenting logical arguments for a counter intuitive play and you are shouting this nonsense like

This is severely unfun to play with.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So why my idea to keep both alive is not considered

Becsuse it's mathematically wrong

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My current off the rails theory is {lld, ceph, furtive} playing 4d chess atm

There is 0 chance you believe this.

If I'm scum with Ceph and Furtive I never allow this to happen because it loses us thr game with how OTT I was day 1 with Ranger shit. I can't carry when both my scum team are dead in a claim war and I need to then kill 2 townies to win.

Tried that in PYP. Doesn't work lmfao.

One dying kind of fake clears the other

Yes and I am literally saying we kill that fake clear at the day before ELO always. Always and forever.

So it's never a win.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So why my idea to keep both alive is not considered

Becsuse it's mathematically wrong

how

If we kill one of Ceph and Furtive we have at MINIMUM a 50% chance of killing scum. And then if we are wrong we have a 100% chance of killing scum the next day.

If we kill outside that we have a 2/9 chance of killing scun. 22.22222 repeating %. And we arent guaranteed a dead scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

STD you dont get to be afraid of my scumgame and also suggest horrifically losing plans that never win for me and a scum player of my caliber would never take even with my range.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But if we kill scum today, we will have 2/9 odds to kill scum tomorrow

Yes but then we have a dead scum which means we have more space to work and more nights for our PRs to activate AND we have more information because we know which one of the two is actually scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

"Haha i never that dumb"

@

"Oh i did it in PYP"

I was forced into it in PYP because of players replacibg out and slots getting tanked but you know what keep talking about things you dont understand.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD moment

Being as nice as I can, can you stop with this shit? It's insulting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I agree with enchant with stop LLD authority

and I agree with LLD that we should at the very fucking least flip within cephrir and furtive lmao

you guys are upping the ante with every new page

Ah yes the resist LLD authority where LLD is proposing a counter intuitive move which goes against the majority.

Yes LLD who said "Red FF is 100% town" yesterday and people killed him anyway.

The LLD authority who has gotten 0 of what she wants so far this game.

What fucking authority?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD moment

Being as nice as I can, can you stop with this shit? It's insulting.

K

How i should refer to you then

How about not replacing my name into the part of a meme that is traditionally male coded and usually refers to someone being stupid.

How about that?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you kill me first we lose a day, it's very simple

Vote cephrir + I die in the night is a lot better than

Vote me + vote cephrir tomorrow

LLD equating the 2 is really dumb

From your POV this is true but only if you are town.

I dont think you are town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also fucks sakes can I go a whole page without being simultaneously suspected for being good while people also insult my intelligence?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right. I'm dumb but RR gets "outside their town range".

Fuck this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well we can have third option and elim someone outside of check and cop.

It prevents potential doctors from guessing game in case when ceph flips mafia. We kinda not in ELO, can afford that. And while they both alive, let them work?

This is the worst plan. One of furtive or Ceph dies.

I actually agree furtive is scummier by play but that fakeclaim seems... well, I was going to say unlikely but I guess he was forced to claim some kind of result after yesterday and it was either that or greencheck a townie (greenchecking a scumbuddy seems like a terrible idea) which is helping out town quite a bit.

UNVOTE: Cephrir

I need to think more about this. Normally I believe the accuser first but there are both mechanical reasons and read-based reasons not to do so right now.

If Furtive Greenchecks we flip him today every time. Maybe Ranger first?

So red check was the only world for scum furtive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: furtiveglance

Ranger would have been the best option to check

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

I mean she's been incredibly polarizing and has expressed the position that the game won't progress healthily without her being resolved.

A cop check is an opportunity to resolve her without spending a day eliminating her, so that's what I'd have done.

Correct. Which is why if Furtive flips scum, Ranger dies tomorrow.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: furtiveglance

Ranger would have been the best option to check

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

I mean she's been incredibly polarizing and has expressed the position that the game won't progress healthily without her being resolved.

A cop check is an opportunity to resolve her without spending a day eliminating her, so that's what I'd have done.

Does this TMI town!Ranger?

No it does not lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No i mean if i am ever in this position, i never check Ranger, you know how SILLY i will look if i waste check on dying player?

No one is ever shooting Ranger that night are you kidding me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your arguments doesh't make sense.

Yours literally defy mathematics so glass house and stones.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

btw furtive I agree with you this is way outside of what I think of RR's town game

RR is repeating word for word my prose. My takes.

Why is RR scum for agreeing with me when I am not scum for pushing it?

Or do you think my town game is so weak I would push a bad take that scum hop onto?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, can you just do a quick gamestate check?

RR is scum piggybacking on your idea.

Enchant is town.

Gimli is town.

Both of the above are trying to talk sense.

There is a reason I haven't voted yet

I'm not 100% set on anything. I'm becoming more and more comfortavle with killing you each time I'm insulted though lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I'm arguing for the counter intuituve play so that it is considered and normalized. I think it might be best.

But I'm not 100% on ceph being town or you being scum so I'm defending this logic while I consider.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I haven't insulted you. I called your idea dumb because it is. Do you want me to say it's smart to kill me?

Yes. I have proven empirically that trusting the cop claim is wrong here as a default stance.

So i will kill the one I think is more scummy. Right now that is you.

Your best move is to show yourself town not argue with something I will never change my mind on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Counter intuitive doesh't mean good.

Right but it is mathematically correct. We should kill the person who is more scummy between furtive and ceph here srtting aside claims entirely.

Just based on play.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Logic being defined very loosely at the moment

... "Im not insulting you"

"Calling your posts "logic" is a very loose definition lol"

Kay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I haven't insulted you. I called your idea dumb because it is. Do you want me to say it's smart to kill me?

Yes. I have proven empirically that trusting the cop claim is wrong here as a default stance.

So i will kill the one I think is more scummy. Right now that is you.

Your best move is to show yourself town not argue with something I will never change my mind on.

You're out of touch with the reality of my perspective.

Do you really think I, as a Cop with a guilty, should be advocating for my own elimination like Ranger was yesterday?

Answer honestly.

No, but that doesn't mean as town you can't see the logic of why it isn't automatically just kill Ceph.

I'm not saying you should lay down and die

I'm saying attacking my logic instead of proving yourself town is not good.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But i didn't consider furtive scummy even before.

Then vote Ceph! All you need to do is say you think Ceph is more scummy than furtive and vote Ceph.

And argue for that point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: furtiveglanceRanger would have been the best option to check

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

I mean she's been incredibly polarizing and has expressed the position that the game won't progress healthily without her being resolved.

A cop check is an opportunity to resolve her without spending a day eliminating her, so that's what I'd have done.

Does this TMI town!Ranger?

No, but 1063 should.

VOTE: furtiveglance

I agree it comes down to which is the townier slot. That’s Cephrir.

I believe furtiveglance has Perspective slipped, revealing himself to be scum.
I should clarify the Perspective slip is far from the only reason. It is simply the reason I can most immediately comment on from my phone.

Ranger you know that if Furtive is scum you are the most likely buddy yes?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like 1063 doesn't TMI you town at all. Infact it reads like something paraphrased from you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

btw furtive I agree with you this is way outside of what I think of RR's town game

RR is repeating word for word my prose. My takes.

Why is RR scum for agreeing with me when I am not scum for pushing it?

Or do you think my town game is so weak I would push a bad take that scum hop onto?

idk if you're town

I think the ideas are potato but they're your ideas, idk if RR would agree with them though

That's not an answer.

If you don't know I'm town, why aren't you suspecting me for "potato" ideas.

Also I can't wait for the end of this game so people can be taught mafia math without hidden alignment getting in the way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok. Well it seems to me at the moment that you're going one step further than just saying "a guilty is just a 50/50" (when I think it's more like 70/30 anyway) and trying to argue that it's better to kill me because 'logic' - remember your post comparing the worlds?

It's only 70/30 in closed games. Open games with easy fake claims it's more 50/50

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: furtiveglanceRanger would have been the best option to check

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

I mean she's been incredibly polarizing and has expressed the position that the game won't progress healthily without her being resolved.

A cop check is an opportunity to resolve her without spending a day eliminating her, so that's what I'd have done.

Does this TMI town!Ranger?

No, but 1063 should.

VOTE: furtiveglance

I agree it comes down to which is the townier slot. That’s Cephrir.

I believe furtiveglance has Perspective slipped, revealing himself to be scum.
I should clarify the Perspective slip is far from the only reason. It is simply the reason I can most immediately comment on from my phone.

I did a double take when I read 1063 too - why would ranger be an inevitable elim if she is checked

I agree that it's bad logic on Furtive.

It doesn't spew Ranger town though. Furtive scum cannot check Rangee scum. So furtive needs a reason not to have. There are only bad reasons for this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean I thibk town needs to kill ranger 100% of the time so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why is Ceph reading town

Tone, activity level, solviness, je ne sais quoi. I haven't reread and can't really back this up at the moment, if I could I'd be voting.

parlez-vous français?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this is just word vomit, please kill ranger once we're done sorting Ceph/Furtive

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I did say that if we're going to be wrong on one of furtive/Cephrir, it's better to be wrong on the one whose ability is already spent.

That doesn't override if you just think Cephrir is super scummy, it's of course better to hit scum in any circumstances, but for someone who's indecisive, furtive is the "correct" choice in a vacuum.

The point I was trying to make isn't that Cephrir's claim is so valuable we can't possibly risk losing it, and I'm also not really sure why that's being attributed to LLD.

because someone came into today shouting "STOP LLD AUTHORITY" over and over and there's an anti-LLD sentiment.

You know, this never seems to happen to men who speak loudly. I'm really, honestly, genuinely so fucking tired of it.

i get misrepresented like this constantly by people who think it's funny

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I believe one person expressed mild interest in having my ability around. This isn't really a good representation of current events

Maybe there are also some people who want you around regardless of your ability :-3

this isn't survivor, i beg you to try and decide who is more likely to be evil between ceph and furtive and not simply vote on personal preference.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i know what you should do with it

I think the mechanical play is to flip you though

I dont think 'cephrir is acting townie' would be a good justification

but anyway I'll think it over I guess

I spent literally 4 hours showing how mechanically it makes 0 difference. We have ups and downs on both sides but in truth if we're wrong, it's the same as if we are wrong in EITHER DIRECTION. We lose the exact same thing.

So it only matters if we're RIGHT. And if we're right, the upside on both is PRECISELY the same, maybe leaning more to Ceph due to having a weak role.

But there is no functional mechanical difference as a result, so as I've said before: Vote who you think is more scummy. That's it, that's the whole fuckin' tweet.

No more arguing that following the cop is the best play 100% of the time (it's not, because this cop doesn't have a second investigation).

No more trying to default to the same basic play.

It's put up or shut up on alignment basis only.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i know what you should do with it

I think the mechanical play is to flip you though

I dont think 'cephrir is acting townie' would be a good justification

but anyway I'll think it over I guess

Why is flipping Cephrir the "mechanical play?"

we trust the first accuser

its just like enchant said

So what you're saying is you are trusting a common truism while misappropriating social justice language instead of considering the actual outcomes and values that change that truism to be different in this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry about the social justice language part but if I have to hear one of you call a cop check "the accuser" like it's a sexual assault claim #MeToo one more time I'm going to scream.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry about the social justice language part but if I have to hear one of you call a cop check "the accuser" like it's a sexual assault claim #MeToo one more time I'm going to scream.

I mean it is literally someone accusing another person. That's just... what the word means?

I understand your frustration with how assault and such are frequently trivialized, but I don't think this is a good example of that?

It's also literally a social justice verbage that has been colloqiualized. "Trust the Accuser".

It's bothering me, thats all.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

look LLD I don't want to antagonize with you

I didn't want to flip ranger though, you spent the first 10 whateves pages of the game saying we are flipping ranger cause 'my secret meta'. i can't even fucking argue with it, I'm a player I'm here too. so, I didn't like that. I wouldn't like anybody doing that, it's a team game. if you want things your way you have to be convincing not demanding, imo.

Okay but I didn't need your vote to flip Ranger. I don't have to work with you if I don't need you.

Conversely I don't actually care what you vote here, but I will not allow bad mechanical arguments to be a hiding place for scum. Scum have to pick on alignment this vote too.

Ceph or Furtive. Who is scummier?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

did we flip ranger though?

No because she claimed N1 and Furtive claimed N1 Coo so it no longer mattered if Ranger was lying or not it was wrong to kill Ranger d1. STD's logic held, even if STD is probably scum.

Scum can be right and still be scum lol.

But what is this challenge. Do you think that Ranger doesmt happen if I don't stop pushing yesterday? If I don't explicitly say n1 cop is the only surviving claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think we flip cephrir

This is all I care about.

You made a choice. Any arguments about mechanical correctness will be ignored in place of reminding you that this was your choice.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And your choice is welcomed! I can be wrong about Ceph! Who knows!

I dont think I am. But I can be.

But everyone will be tested and everyone will be judged.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

STD is scum Ceph.

Vote: Furtive

Or at least you two are not the same alignment aha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i have a solve that i like too much right now to accommodate STD in it but page me in a couple days if i'm alive

C'est quoi ça?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

When I flip I'll still probably get blamed for how I played or something, I don't think certain players are capable of humility

?

You rolled cop, were suspicious but allowed to live to provide a check and now gave us a 50/50...if you are town you played well and found us a scum with your cop which is exactly why we let you live.

You just may not be town, hence this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i have a solve that i like too much right now to accommodate STD in it but page me in a couple days if i'm alive

C'est quoi ça?

furtive/kawaii and i have enchant in there at the moment

i might just be mad at enchant tho

I'm mad at Enchant too but I think this might be town Enchant.

Korina and Ranger.... There is probably one wcum in that group.

For me... One scum in Korina Ranger
One scum in Furtive Ceph

One scum in Ceph STD