Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

VOTE: Gimli

What have you done that the mod wants you dead?

and of course, cause I'm a masochist:

HURT: Kyoko Kirigiry, Flea The Magician

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

VOTE: lich

I don't think saying "I'm town" is LAMIST, it's just normal behaviour

Don't like that you pushed that

But from my last experience with the lich, he does that kinda stuff

I thought you'll be more cautious calling him scum for this after that game so you going after lich here is bugging me

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Why wouldn't you vote self in nightmare?

I don't trust myself with that kind of power, I thought we doing top 2 townreads, though it makes sense to vote yourself as your top townread... I didn't know you could vote yourself into the Nightmare, thought it had to be someone else

Why you don't trust yourself with that kind of power?

it's just about choosing who to receive an invention, or is there more to it that we don't know?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame

preliminary nightmare vote for now

HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli

I have some questions

did you eat a baby dragon, Mr frog?

or maybe the frog is very large and could eat a big dragon

Did you 70 dragons or are you the 70th frog who ate a dragon?

please help me with my so many serious questions

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

oh and also can you write 1 line why you town read each of those 4 people you voted for?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That makes sense thanks for the clarification! (though I have many more questions about where you found the baby dragon and how it tasted ... but those can wait for another time)

pedit: why is that a bad vote? cause it was casted on you?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

the 7 we choose will choose someone amongst themselves and vote for an invention type (what skill they wanna give) probably and they will receive 1 shot of it

That's what I understood

even though I wouldn't put it beyond design that scum has some mechanics related to the nightmares - cause of the name and theme of the game mainly and cause event sabotage is a thing I would definitely add if I was designing this kind of setup. So we have to consider the possibility of that hidden stuff that might happen - maybe if a scum gets in?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

obviously

so that goes back to the question why wouldn't you want yourself to be in there? If you're town, to your perspective you're the only one who you know that is a town

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

obviously was to your first comment.

not about vig being a negative utility.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Need to note that FN in this way its setup assuming we give it to player A and they say they use it on player B will mean:

If A is town B is town (or they get a guilty assuming no interfere)

If A is not town then they received no skill in the first place to use so we have no info on B besides a wifom

Its actually too conditional so I'm not entirely sure if its best play. We still have till night phase to think about these inventions though

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I Don't think inventions being awarded to scum is something you should be worried about as they will be known to have said invention and will be held accountable for it's use. You should still be worried that they may try to choose players to get the invention who will use it in a way that benefits them however.

92 looks pockety to me but it's certainly not a strong read.

My pocket is big enough for everyone. Don't be jelouse

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I dont see any issue with discussing what we gonna choose during day. but we should not discuss who we gonna give the skill to during day. The nightmare group should discuss that over night IMO

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Eh.

If you give FN for someone and they scum, they are forced to lie that teammate received message or die or pretend to be roleblocked.

First is gradually risky for obvious reason.

Hmm true. forgot second person is receiving a message here. guess FN is actually the best option then cause it can technically form masons

pedit: no there is a huge chance that there are other mechanics relating nightmares that we're not aware of. Is best to not have a scum sabotage the nightmare in anyway

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

HURT: Save The Dragons, KawaiiKame, Temporal Lich, Gimli, Empath, DragonEater

Btw Gimli I think is town because, from a mech standpoint, being hated only makes sense for town (basically makes ELo more dangerous) but doesn't work really with scum. Of course it could be a red herring though.
And nightmarin' myself because I'm conftown in my eyes.

I don't like this post.

1- hated modifier is usually not for ELO, vote modifiers get disabled on elo for obvious reasons most of time.
2 - We don't know what skills a scum player might have. It might be strong enough to justify the hated modifier.
3 - You're town hunting more than scum hunting

Would you call that your play style?

I don't know who thinked that OMGUS is scummy and writed this on wiki (now people parrot this as universal scumread without thinking), but if someone thinks that selfvoting for PR is scummy, then they DESERVE the vote in response.

Self nightmare isn't scummy, it was mainly an RVS vote.

This sounds a bit like panicking, the vote was initially done on a serious context/post. Why would you drop a random vote in this:

Botanical Rat is very towny.

Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?

Don't really see it.

I'd say Botanical Rat is null with maybe an iota of town.

34 was me trying to explain the nightmare mechanic, and saying I'd put people who are good at solving the game in the nightmare as that's how to get the most town benefit from that mechanic in my opinion

pedit: good question... I can't answer that myself sadly.

Agreed.

Botanical Rat is very towny.

Temporal Lich's #34 looks like campaigning to be placed in the Nightmare?

Do you think they are good at solving?

No, I don't know them, but they're nearly the only person who's actually solving so far and certainly the person doing the most so far.

Actually it feela you are solvong as well.

HURT: Enchant

Mmm power

VOTE: Enchant

So I feel like you're saying its RVS just to get away from a discussion about it

Kyoko might be pocketing Eater.

Really? I literally didn't see any interaction directed at me from them.
But might've missed, will ISO them later.

really?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I would love if you would talk 1 sentence about all your town reads (you have long hurt list)

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

And yeah the only interaction before this post was a bit of fluff and asking me to clarify my townreads. I don't see how this is pocketing.

Yeah that's fair,

it was just that you said it there like you don't remember that we had any kind of interactions with each other

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Okay so. Scum being able to communicate with partners while in the Nightmare makes it absolutely IMPERATIVE that scum not be allowed in. Otherwise they can just shoot whoever gets the invention the same night.

yeap

well, that's the least of the concern. They actually might have other skills that activate in nightmares too.

We need to make sure only town get in

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Am I the only one who is not actually town reading gimli.

I think him going after TL was not fine I think still and he is not doing much rn but talking about how many town reads he has

Like I just want to know why is everyone town reading him

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

empath I can't follow your line of thinking

so you think enchant is scummy cause he voted someone for a possible rvs vote while saying it was a bad vote?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

HURT: Gimli, Meg, Botanical

I think I do remember people saying we want the most solvy players to run the nightmare?

To me, at least who I have played with recently, Meg and Gimli would be at the top of my list. As far as the hydra, they both are quality as well....but I figure two heads are better than one in this scenario (it pains me to compliment a hydra lol)

this is a good looking post and i think drew is a townie for it

cause he voted for you? It's actually a really bad post cause he did not consider solving you at all. This is not a popularity contest

It's pretty obvious we want town players in the nightmare, not just people who are generally better in the game.

And you're really alarming me right now with how you're reacting to this kinda stuff

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I actually am going to go ahead and do

VOTE: Gimli

I have a few questions for you:

1 - Is your hated modifier for all phases or just this one
2 - Imagine you were in the nightmare, what invention would you choose and why?
3 - How is your read on temporallich developing
4 - What is your take on how empath voted enchant. What do you think about the interactions surrounding his vote on enchant
5 - Who would you vote to hurt right now? Please write one sentence about each.

We need to verify your alibi, please show us your e-handbook!

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

HURT: Gimli, Meg, Botanical

I think I do remember people saying we want the most solvy players to run the nightmare?

To me, at least who I have played with recently, Meg and Gimli would be at the top of my list. As far as the hydra, they both are quality as well....but I figure two heads are better than one in this scenario (it pains me to compliment a hydra lol)

this is a good looking post and i think drew is a townie for it

cause he voted for you? It's actually a really bad post cause he did not consider solving you at all. This is not a popularity contest

It's pretty obvious we want town players in the nightmare, not just people who are generally better in the game.

And you're really alarming me right now with how you're reacting to this kinda stuff

Why do you say I am not solving them?

Cause I'm reading your posts and there is nothing about that in there?

You voted for them to be in nightmare because you think they solve better. That is not solving them. Now you might say you are solving them, but just didn't say anything about it. Sure. That won't explain why gimli called it a good post and was not alarmed by how you did it.

Why do you think they are town?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Who said I'm suspicious of you because you're hated? That question was asked for another reason

I have some follow up questions:

1 - What you think about FN invention. What you think about what was discussed before in game about FN vs Vig as invention?
2 - What changed your mind about lich?
3 - Elaborate on your read on empath if you can. I want you talk a bit about your take on that interaction
4 - why you think botanical rat is town?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I think given the questions and the places where the suspicion is allegedly coming from, I think it can be a >rand scum thing instead

This is probably your first analysis of any slot in this game thread and I actually welcome it. So far you reacted vote to lich for something I feel town you would be more hesitant/analytical about, you threw some rand commentary about feeling good about most slots with almost no elaboration. The last one was about someone voting for you to be in nightmare without even sharing anything about how they read you.

Thats why I want to see you talk more about your reads. It seems so shallow that I think its very likely that your published perspective in this game thread is entirely forged.

I want you to explain why you think me asking these questions is me being rand scum and why where my suspicious is not towny in your mind.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

and the part where I asked about the hated modifier, I asked cause you have to clarify it with mod and you need to tell us if you're town. It can have a huge impact on game if we're not careful about it. You did not go the extra mile to claim the details about it so I thought its best if I ask you to share more details or clarify it with mod if you don't know those details yourself too.

For example, there might be a secret voter or double voter somewhere as we already see there are other types of vote manipulation. So we need to be careful about how a wagon against you is formed in all conditions. And if you get close to late game, we need to consider your hated modifier impact on final elimination.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Why is FN crap? elaborate on your thought process, please

talk to me about some instances of solving you saw from lich that changed your mind. Help me see through your mind process about where and when you changed your mind about him

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I don't need to clarify with the mod if it works in ELO because it's clear from how it's phrased in my role PM that it works throughout the game.

Sure thing

I was just explaining why I asked the question since you were concerned about why I asked

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

A friendly neighbor is not a hood. Friendly neighbor targets another slot and they receive a message knowing the one who targetted them is town.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

We just had a game that ended in which I was a friendly neighbor (well a modified one in which the target player would know I could win with them not that I was town). That is why you saying FN is totally crap feels really out of place actually

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I just skimmed lich and there's a lot of gamesolving content, though this seems wildly different from when he was town in ab:loaf. he seems to be playing more polished competent thoughts, pushing things that look correct. probably just a townie playing well but could be informed scum knowing how to post as scum.

this is the kinds of reads you're gonna get from me this early, kyoko.

Yeah this is good. I'm not asking you to solidify a read. I just wanna see how you're thinking about stuff.

That is actually how I see him too actually

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

posting nonsensical reads like saying me and kokichi are same people and then sticking to it to the point of death was what he did in abloaf.
I'm not sure how he randomly calling a post lamist is worse than that in your mind
I feel like he had been trying to not play like abloaf here actively, but you can still see traces of that somewhat stubborn playstyle still.

Thats why I was thinking you went too easy against him.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I'm satisfied with what I got

UNVOTE:

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Doctor Drew however is pretty solvey this game.

is he?

pedit: that post tells me "kyoko might be scum with her calculated pushes"

what part of it do you think is calculated?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

There isn't a single read in post 302. what were they solving there?

so you say based on what gimli wrote, you got the impression that I was trying to set them up as an easy mislim and not sorting them? can you elaborate what you saw there that gave you this impression?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

There isn't a single read in post 302. what were they solving there?

To me, at least who I have played with recently,

Meg and Gimli

would be at the top of my list. As far as

the hydra

, they both are quality as well....but I figure two heads are better than one in this scenario (it pains me to compliment a hydra lol)

emphasis added

doctor drew townreads meg and gimli, and kinda townreads botanical rat - hence why I feel doctor drew is solvey this game.

so you say based on what gimli wrote, you got the impression that I was trying to set them up as an easy mislim and not sorting them? can you elaborate what you saw there that gave you this impression?

that post feels less like a pure thoughtstream and more like a reaction to being pushed... we need thoughtstreams to do well in D1 as they tend to have much better reads and solves.

They said meg and gimli must be in nightmare cause they are solvy players. They didn't add them there cause of a town read or at least didn't explain that part.

This is not a popularity contest.

What you mean by thoughtstream? Like me asking around 6 questions from gimli to elaborate his read on this slot and that interaction with more details or something elsE?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

And TL, tbf I did say I think they are solid players, not that I was town reading them per se.

As I said in that post I thought I saw someone mention that you want the best solvers in there.

Though realize now that obviously I want them to be town.

And, definitely not sold on Gimli.

I give town points to drew for this post. This is a very genuine back track from a previous slot that scum tend to get stuck on instead. i.e. sharing a list and sticking to it, while he genuinely is evaluating gimli now

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Spoiler: TL, Kyoko

Doctor Drew however is pretty solvey this game.

is he?

pedit: that post tells me "kyoko might be scum with her calculated pushes"

what part of it do you think is calculated?

is he?

uhh... I think so? maybe?

302 is what gives me the impression that Doctor Drew is "pretty solvey this game".

what part of it do you think is calculated?

gimli's post about your pushes makes me think they could be set up to try to get Gimli to slip up and become LHF - they seemed like okay and somewhat towny pushes before that post

There isn't a single read in post 302. what were they solving there?

so you say based on what gimli wrote, you got the impression that I was trying to set them up as an easy mislim and not sorting them? can you elaborate what you saw there that gave you this impression?

What are you trying to achieve here, Kyoko? There are three expressed townreads in post 302, to start off.

Your probing of TL feels unnecessarily aggressive in approach, why the questions..

And TL, tbf I did say I think they are solid players, not that I was town reading them per se.

As I said in that post I thought I saw someone mention that you want the best solvers in there.

Though realize now that obviously I want them to be town.

And, definitely not sold on Gimli.

As drew also admitted, he clearly mentioned he is putting those names in his nightmare list for their solving skills not cause he thinks they are town. Which is why gimili's post of liking it felt really out of place to me, and why it made no sense for TL to call it solvy so I questioned it

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That being said, I'm not really alarmed by anyone at this moment. I'm trying to see if someone shows some sort of dispersal in their thought process so I would love more if everyone would write down their top town and top scum reads and elaborate on what they see about them

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I'll ISO check somepeople tomorrow night

gonna have a busy day tomorrow

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

so guys, I really had a very long day (not really a weekend for me)

and I'm super exhausted. I think I'll catch up and do the stuff I plan to do tomorrow night instead

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

prod dodge

real life got wierd so

@mod please vla me till thursday morning

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

@Korina I know how it feels when this happens in a game cause it happened to an old game of mine too

I'm really sorry that it happened in your game. This looks like a very interesting setup and its such a shame

@clone you're a very awful person. Just aweful

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That's a shame. I really liked what I had seen.

We were doing great, too, town, i think we would have gotten all scum except Kawaii. Nice Kawaii.

haha morning tweet was a cultist!!!

I can't believe some moron robbed us of how funny this game would've become

Hehe

I put in the action to cult you but switched it to Kyoko after noticing a post of yours that said you adamantly did not want to be culted and also that u had a surprise for scum visiting you. For the record, it was the second reason that swayed me much more

Both you and Kyoko were lying about having an ace up ur sleeve turns out, but Kyoko got shot. That was too bad!

If you continued to pressure me I was going to try to cult you later if i really had to

Putting you in the neighbourhood was kind of an afterthought because I didn't quite fully *get* my role until i sent the actions. I thought the alternate wincondition was just if I culted everyone, not neighbourize everyone.

Really fascinating setup from everything ive seen.

I didn't lie.

if FN was given to someone who would use it on my mason partner I would be able to form a 3 way town block (which would expand usual FN info)

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

feeling honored that I was both scum group night actions though.